[Carlman]

Thought I'd ask here what you all thought of these options for a new car...

I mainly do onsite consulting/computer work and drive about 100 miles a day during the week.  Some roads are a bit rough and noisy in my current car.  I regularly take 1-3 clients to lunch in my car.  I need something that at best impresses clients with a sense of taste, style, creativity... and at worst leaves no impression... and doesn't make them 'wonder'..

Gas mileage, good performance, fun to drive, useable backseat and classy are what I'm looking for... oh, and in the 20's.  ha.  Oh, and I really like to be able respect it from a technical or engineering standpoint.  (Smart use of space, engine design, etc.)

I've had a really hard time with this.  I like the Mini Cooper S, the Toyota Avalon (2005 only), Acura TSX, Toyota Camry SE and the Mazda6 wagon.... all for different reasons and they all provide some or most of the mix above.  To date my favorite has been the Avalon because it's so refined and fun to drive... and comfortable..  However, it's 30,k.  The Camry is nice too but not in the same league as the new Avalon.

The Mini is likely noisy on rough pavement and might be a bit tiring on longer trips.  The Acura is essentially a Honda Accord with refinements... and the Accord needs it in my opinion... I drove the '05 coupe and sedan and was NOT impressed at all... just cheap feeling and average all the way around... I felt like I was in a '97 Mitsubishi Mirage.

The Mazda6 is a Mazda.  I've had 3 Mazda's previously and I'm kind of tired of them... and their service departments.  Also, it's a little unrefined and the interior is somewhat take-it or leave-it... just not sure on that one.

Anywho... Just curious if anyone had any other options... or opinions I hadn't considered.  I'd pretty much like BMW 3 series but I can't afford it... and would prefer something a little unusual, had a manual transmission, and a balance of comfort and sportiness.  I'm driving a Mazdaspeed Protege now.  If it didn't have orange stitching and a big spoiler.. and was a little quieter on the inside, it'd be perfect.

Thanks,
Carl

[warnerwh]

How about one of the new hemi powered station wagons from the Mopar people. They look and act tame enough, have plenty of room in back and are comfortable.  Here's a review from Road and Track:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1604

[grub]

How about a Nissan Maxima?
They've supposedly got an excellent V6 that's won several awards (if I remember correctly), and there's a 6 speed manual option.  I did a build up that was pretty stripped with 18" chromies and it was in the 20's but just barely.

A Chrysler 300 might be an option.
-->grub

[lonewolfny42]

Carlman:

I'd pretty much like BMW 3 series but I can't afford it...

[/list:u]

Would you consider a "slightly used" model... say 1 or 2 years old. It would be less costly than a new model. Or is your heart set on a "brand new" automobile ?   [/list:u]

[JohnnyLightOn]

The Nissan Maxima has a powerful engine, but is not a sporty driver's car anymore.  It's front wheel drive, and will not drive like the car it once was (it's been redone, based on the Nissan Altima).

The Infiniti G35 is an all-around fantastic car, a true driver's car with a significantly improved interior for 2005.  But it's in the low 30's, so that might disqualify it.

[bubba966]

Well, the first paragraph or so makes me think of a BMW 330 (maaaybe a 325). Until you mention what you're looking to spend.

Have you given the Mini a drive? It doesn't sound like you have, and you might find it to not ride like you think it might. And if you wanted a better suspension on it, Dinan's suspension upgrades are $1,000-$1,500 depending on how far you want to go.

I've driven a couple of different Lexus models (LS430 Sport, ES300, LX430) and found them to ride rather nice with decent engine performance. But I like the feel of a BMW much better. Granted I'm used to the M5 (don't recall any other BMW experience), which isn't really like a 3 series. But I don't think that an E46 330 would be too far off of the feel of the E34 M5 that I'm used to.

I think I'd try to find a C.P.O. 330 sedan if you don't mind it being a year or three since it rolled off the assembly line. I'd probably stay away from the 330 coupe if you were going to use the back seat at all.

[orthobiz]

Two things:
List a few of the cars you had, including your current car.
Are you considering used?

biz

[Jay S]

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool BMW lover so I think they should always be on the list for a fun, practical sedan.  They are great value particularly if you don't mind a used one with 30k-40k miles.  They can still feel almost new even with that mileage (I recall a very nice one I saw with 40k at a dealer and it wasn't even a Certified Pre Owned car).  The CPO cars are really good.  You can probably get great deals now that there is a new body style coming out.  

What is really special about a BMW is the blend of acceleration, handling, communication with the driver, refinement and fuel economy.  A 328 or 330 will be very good in all of these areas.  You can find cars that are better in 1 or more dimension but I don't think you will find a better all around sporty sedan.  Audi can't do it.  Infiniti seems to be getting closer but I have not driven the new G35 so I can't comment.  

If you like a sporty car then do test drive a 328 or 330 with the Sport suspension (if it has 17" wheels from the factory then it probably has the Sport suspension).  If you are lucky you will find one with the Performance Package -- you will know since the engine has a higher redline, a short-throw manual shifter and an even more sporty suspension from the factory.  

I fitted an M3 suspension and wheels to my 328i.  It was refined enough that I could easily handle a 2 hour drive after a 16 hour trans-pacific flight.  It could be throttle-steered with ease through corners and flung into freeway on-ramps well above the national speed limit.  It had enough torque to shove you back in your seat around town, 3rd gear was good for triple digits.  It still got 28-30 mpg on the freeway.  I loved the car even if I gave the engine, suspension and brakes regular work-outs.  That said, I lent the car to my 65 year old aunt for 2 weeks and she loved it -- how's that for user friendly!  

An E34 M5 has more of a hard edge than an E46 330i (even with a Sport suspension) in terms of ride and engine note.  But it is still refined and comfortable.  In its time it was called a 4 door Ferrari -- not that much of a stretch given that the 3.8L inline-6 was putting out 340 hp back in the early 90s (naturally aspirated, no turbo or supercharger).  

Have fun with your shopping!

[Scott F.]

Hiya Carl,

I'll second the 'lightly used' route. If you can get past the the stigma of 'preowned', you can save yourself boatloads of money on a killer car. Myself, I like domestic cars (Ford, GM, etc). In my case I bought a Cadillac SLS. It was 3 years old, pristine, fully loaded, and had 30k miles. I had several to choose from, all for far less than 1/2 the original sticker. It came with the balance of 60k bumper to bumper warranty and also the balance on the 100k drivetrain warranty. I bought this one off the lot and the dealers service shop has treated me as if I had bought it new.

Like you, I wanted something that I could take clients out and impress without them raising an eyebrow. Sure, I occasionally get a question cuz it's a Cadillac but after I tell them how I bought it, they don't give it a thought. Besides, that question usually creates more conversation with the client. The SLS is plenty quick with 275hp (285hp in the STS), handles very well yet rides like a Cadi. It has every option availible. I personally like it more than my wifes S Type Jag (which we bought the same way BTW).

For me, I'll never by 'new' again. I refuse to take that intial 3 year, 50%+ depreciation hit again. I like our money too much.  Besides, it leaves more for audio gear  

[Jay S]

I agree wholeheartedly with Scott on getting used cars in great condition.  Let someone else take the big depreciation hit.  

You may want to get a sense of what size of car you prefer.  Personally, I prefer cars around the size of a 3-series (the outgoing E46, not the new one that is newly on sale).  The 5 series and the Seville are too big for me, the Mini may be too small for everyday use.  

Why not give the Cady CTS a try?

[avahifi]

How about a 2 - 3 year old Audi A6 Quattro with the factory extended 100,000 mile six year warranty on everything?

The warranty really means "everything" including all service including oil changes, and they even pick it up at your door and deliver it back at no extra charge.

I've had at least one Audi in the family for the last 30 years with no regrets.  And when the roads get bad the Audi really gets going.  Safe, secure, awesome fit and finish, and comfortable.

Makes the oriental cars seem like little tin can s--- box jokes.

Frank Van Alstine

[goskers]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Acura TL.  You can pick up a used one for right around 30K and the latest model is dead sexy imho.

Honda's reputation for solid reliable cars is what has kept me in the japanese market for many years now.

[jermmd]

All good choices so far IMHO.  If I could go to 30k, I would get the Infiniti G35x.  I love Cadillacs but they carry an undeserved image problem and are hard to find under 30k.  How about a new Mustang?  Maybe not so comfortable/classy but looks great and fun to drive.  Finally,  the Chrysler 300M and Dodge Magnum are really cool.

Joe M.

[jackman]

Hi Carl,
I'm a big BMW fan and agree with the guys who suggest finding a certified used model.  You can get one with extended 100,000 mile warrantee for around your price range.  You should be able to find a two year old model with 20-30K.  I have a 325 and although it doesn't have the acceleration of the 330, it's still fun to drive.  I've had it for two years and have never had a problem (knock on wood).  It handles well and gets good gas mileage.  If you wait a month or so, you should have a good selection because lots of people may be trading their older models in when the new one is out.  

I've driven the Acura and think it's a good all-around car.  My friend has one and really likes it.  It has a 4 banger but is peppy (revvy) and gets good mileage.   Build quality is good and reliability is excellent.  Not the most exciting ride on the road but very solid.  

Another car in your range is the Suburu sedan.  I can't remember the model name but it's the sporty sedan.  I hate the pimped out one with the wing and teenager-racer graphics but the regular sedan is very sporty looking and solidly built.  Plus it has all wheel drive.  

I drove the G35 and almost bought one before I bought my BMW.  The G was very fast, cool looking and handled very well.  I hated the look of the dash and rear tail lights or I would have bought it.  A friend who has one says gas mileage is decent but it really sucks the gas when you jump on the pedal.  You could find a used one in your range.  They are well built and do all of the things you want a sport sedan to do.  All of the car mags loved this one.  I didn't feel as connected with the road as I did with the BMW.  Don't get me wrong, the Nissan 3.5L will blow the doors off a B'mer 3.0 without a problem.  It just didn't feel as fun to drive as the BMW.  

Lastly, I really like the Chrysler 300.  It's a poor man's Bentley (or E series at least).  The interior is very cool, the styling is cool and the performance (even with the mid-level V6) is excellent.  I'd swap those stock shocks with something a bit stiffer but overall ride and handling is very nice.  I laid a major patch in the V8 model with Hemi.  This car is a total rocket and is 50% or more Mercedes.  Slap on a diamond mesh grill (in place of the stock number) and you are in Bid-Ness!  Even though this car is no longer "new" it still turns my head every time I see one.  Lots of room for clients, four doors, very fast engine, seemingly good build quality, good handling, reasonable price, excellent styling (IMO), etc.  IMO, it's hard to beat for the $$$.

Lastly, a friend of mine just bought a 2001 Audi A6 Quatro with 4.2L (or is it 4.3?) V8.  It's in perfect shape, had about 19K miles and came with two sets of tires (one for sun and one for snow).  He paid about 30K with 0% financing.  The car has everything but GPS.  I only drove it a short distance but the acceleration was very good.  It sucks gas but is a blast to drive and has lots of room.   Plus, Audi makes the BEST interiors in the car world, IMO.  If you get an Audi, make sure you get the extended warrantee.  I hear repairs are very expensive and mechanical quality is suspect, IMO.  


Good luck,

J

PS - the Mini is fun but not an every day driver.  Plus, it only has 2 "real" seats.  The back ones are just for laughs and newborn's.

[ss397]

i think the bmw 3 series is the finest overall car of its type. my wife has one and we love it. we bought a certified preowned one and it has warranty for 6 yrs., 100k miles. repairs are expensive on german cars. that said the acura is a very fine vehicle as well. we had one of those and quality is second to none, interior appointments are excellent( one step down from bmw). the car is not as much of a driver's car. be careful with audi, they have some of the worst resale values in automotive land, once you buy one you take a big hit when you resell it. my only recent toyota experience was with a rental corolla, it reminded me of pioneer stereo gear, got the job done, but thats about it.

[ctviggen]

I would at least drive a Saab 9-3ss.  This will meet your price range, is unique, fun to drive, has a good initial warranty, gets good gas mileage, and can be had in a manual.  It has a real backseat.  It is, however, FWD, which some don't like.  If you drive in the snow, you'll also need snow tires, as the 9-3ss is likely to come with high performance, summer tires, which are useless in the snow.  For my 9-3 Viggen, I purchased a set of rims/tires from the dealer.  The car's a blast in the snow.

[Jay S]

I've never ridden one but I think the Chrysler 300 is a tough cool looking car.  Its a bit too much of a head-turner for me but I like it and I'm glad that they put character into the styling.  Plus you do get a good amount of Mercedes engineering.  It will use more gas than a 330i, though.  

Speaking of gas mileage, I used to run my 328 on the race track at driving events organized by the BMW Car Club of America.  It would use more gas, of course, but the mileage was pretty comparable to what a big SUV would get around town... but I had my foot all the way to the floor and a big grin plastered on my face.  

If you want to learn about emergency driving (panic stops, driving in the rain) or want to take it further to autocross or high speed driving, then the BMW Car Club of America is a great resources.  They have chapters all over the U.S. that organize great driving as well as social events.  Membership is very reasonable (~$25/yr?), plus you get a pretty good monthly magazine plus your local chapter newsletter.  If you want to take advantage, then your transportation can become a lifestyle.  Other car brands have owners clubs.  Acura for example, has one but, if the monthly magazine is an indication, the emphasis is on the destination (a nice country restaurant, a out of town resort, etc) whereas in the BMW club the driving itself is the event (even if you may have a great meal planned for the end of the day).

[Carlman]

Wow.. thanks for all the responses and advice!
I can't reply fully at the moment (sneaking in some posts at work) but I will consider much of what's been offered... A used BMW is certainly a consideration.  
My real price range is 'in the 20's'... out the door.  I'm currently driving a 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege.  It has about 170 turbocharged HP and is a blast to drive and gets 29mpg average.  Before this I had 2 Miata's, a '99 and an '01.  Somewhere between those I had an '89 Jeep Cherokee for a year while driving in Boston... Before that I had a '97 Mitsubishi Mirage LS, a Toyota Tacoma, and before that a '91 Isuzu Stylus.

I can never seem to get into what I call a 'real car'... I always end up settling for a good deal.  I like to buy new because previous owners rarely take care of their cars like I do... and I rarely have problems with my cars.

BTW, I have had friends who have owned just about everything.  I will not buy an Audi... or a VW for that matter.... They make GM look good when it comes to reliability.  I'm not a big fan of American cars.  I'm kind of a snob but still open minded enough to consider the Magnum, or better yet the new Charger.... ooo... that looks cool.  The Mustang GT might be cool... I need to sit in the back seat of one to see how it would work.  However, the 'stang may still be too 'rough around the edges' for my purposes.  I have not been impressed with anything by Ford or Chevy.  My Dad had a Cadillac Eldorado that completely fell apart after 10 years when I was offered it... and I turned it down.  So, that weighs into my opinion of Cadillac... not that it should.

Anyway, that's my thoughts at the moment.

Thanks again,
C

[Andrikos]

C man,
I was going to recommend the Passat TDi (40+mpg) but you said no VW's...
I would also recommend the Mercedes E300 CDi but you said in the twenty's...  
If I were you, I'd buy the Mini Coopers S but you also said you'd like to put 1-3 adults in it for lunch... Maybe that's a stretch for the Mini's back seat...
Otherwise, it's a clear choice...
Good luck!

[mikef]

My wife just picked up a CPO Saab 9-5 with 30,000 miles for $17,600.

For the money, I think it is a very good deal - loaded, big interior, big trunk, decent power, will impress clients/business associates. FWD, though, so handling OK but not great. Very comfortable seats, which is important for long drives.

I still prefer my modded BMW '89 535i, though - comfort, power and handling.

Mike