[lonewolfny42]

Besides the Toyota Prius, you have a Honda Civic and Honda Accord gas/electric models....and I think a Ford Escape model. Keep it for a few years...then move to the next new model.

[lonewolfny42]

n/t

[ohenry]

And don't get Heavystarch started about Biodiesel...

Biodiesel actually raises NOx emissions , but do nice things for toxic and particulate emissions.  Most parts of the US need to reduce ozone precursors and NOx is the most important pollutant here in the southeast.  Hopefully, ultra low sulfur diesel will be creeping into the urban areas soon which will enable the use of NOx catalysts for some existing fleets.

We have two Priuses (Priui ?   ) at work and I like them very much.  They are deceptively large from the inside, and reasonably quiet and comfortable.

[Andrikos]

And don't get Heavystarch started about Biodiesel...

We have two Priuses (Priui ?   )

Everybody knows that it's Prii...        

Good inputs, thanks.

[fabaudio]

I have to agree the hybrids ( like the JVC F10) make a lot of sense. A few months ago it was time for my wife to renew her lease with a new Honda. I insisted she try the Prius which she did. We loved it. But......... she once had an old BMW and was flirting with the idea of leasing one. She ended up buying a 2 year old BMW 325i in mint condition. She's the same age as I - 67. Now and then my heart skips a beat for she handles the curves as if it was a Formula 1. Says she- " after all ain't it the ultimate driving machine ? "

[Carlman]

I too wonder what the deal is on the batteries... I don't want to unnecessarily pollute or cause harm.  I'm purely logical and not 'emotional' when it comes to environmental issues.  To me it seems 'environmentalism' is just a made up religion these days.  People recycle because it 'feels good'... ugh.  It makes me wonder if people buy hybrid cars because they feel good about it and don't question the entire equation of cost, environmental (and personal) friendliness.

I wish they'd just bring back the energy-efficient cars of the late 80's and early 90's.  I had a girlfriend that got 50mpg out of her Honda CRX HF.  What happened to that idea?  There were Datsun's and Toyota's... and all sorts of cars that got in the 30's... No batteries, no complicated systems that will break... no wacky stuff that a mechanic down the street couldn't handle.  They drove great in the snow... Utilitarian vehicles.... I miss 'em.

My other concern with heavy electric engines is voltage.  If it crashes, what happens?  Are there crash tests?  What happened to the power?  Could I be electrocuted?  All stuff I don't know and no one has been able to address with any certainty.  (I've asked salesmen and coworkers mainly so, that's likely the reason.)  I really don't like that I have no answer on the battery replacement... just that it "should last a long time."  I shudder to think what it would cost if I called the parts dept... But maybe I will.  Plus, what happens to Nickel MetalHydride after it's been cycled?  Is it really recyclable?  What's that process like?  Dirty? I'll bet it is.

So, on top of this long list of concerns, I think the Prius looks 'dinky'... but maybe I'll drive it for kicks and get more answers.  Believe it or not, I'm not against it or any other Hybrid, just genuinely concerned that it's unsafe both for me and the environment after 3 years or so.  

Anyway, I'm looking into BMW's... and I still need to sit in a Legacy GT.  Those sure look nice... but the rear headroom spec looks awfully low.

-C

[CJ Paul]

I wish they'd just bring back the energy-efficient cars of the late 80's and early 90's. I had a girlfriend that got 50mpg out of her Honda CRX HF.

 The problem is those types of cars weighed from 1200 to 1500 pounds in a lot of instances.  Now you cant make cars out of those types of materials and meet safety regulations, not to mention even IF you could, making a 1200 pound care marketable in a world of 6000 pound SUVs.  The other issue is, it takes anywhere from 3-5 years to develop anything more than cosmetic changes to a car.  5 years ago, no one was worried about the price of gas, the .com bubble hadn't burst and prosperity meant the beginning of a new horsepower race (smallish midsize cars (Honda Accord) have 240-260HP for crying out loud).  That is why.  Some companies have stuck to their guns.  VW has continuted to maintain their TDI models and even added some more power and refinement without decreasing mileage.

[8thnerve]

Anyway, I'm looking into BMW's... and I still need to sit in a Legacy GT. Those sure look nice... but the rear headroom spec looks awfully low.

My last car was an 02 BMW 325i.  It was probably the most enjoyable car I have owned overall.  It did everything that was asked of it with grace.  Now however, I will probably try and find a late 80's 3 series in good condition and drive that around for a few years.  Good gas mileage, and no car payment.  They can be had for a steal.  If I were spending more money though, I'd get a Prius.  Of course, I admit that I am not too worried about the batteries as I have been reading about all the aftermarket parts that are becoming available for it.  There is a kit in the works that adds an intercooler and better batteries that give it 200hp and over 90 mpg.  Anyone think they can make a 10 second Prius?  

[jackman]

If I were spending more money though, I'd get a Prius.  Of course, I admit that I am not too worried about the batteries as I have been reading about all the aftermarket parts ...

I hear Vinnie from Red Wine has a mod for the Prius that will make it do 200mph!  Just kidding, I only mentioned Vinnie because you said battery mod and he does battery mods...

I don't drive enough to make a Prius worth the investment (7,000 miles per year) but I like the concept and hear they are very refined cars.  I also question what will happen to the battery after 7 or 8 years.   Is the money saved on gas eaten up with a $7000 or $8000 charge for a new battery?  Also, do these batteries wind up in landfills?  

I have an '03 BMW 325 and it gets decent mileage, but nothing special.  I don't think I have ever gotten more than 24 or 25 mpg on average, even on the highway.  I get about 20 mpg around town.  I did test the 115 mph governor and it works fine.  The 325 is not a fast car (compared to the G35 or similar) but it's still fun to drive.  It's hard to explain but I like the way BMW's feel.  The steering, handling, acceleration, brakes, etc.  Someday I'd like to get an M3 convertible but that's a long way off.  For now, the 325 will have to do.

J

[skrivis]

Carlman :

I need something that at best impresses clients with a sense of taste, style, creativity...

[/list:u]

Working off that quote...I've found the car for you....something they will remember...[/list:u]

[/list:u]

The Scion xB....it's ugly...reminds me of the small cars in the circus...but you remember it...... [/list:u]

I saw several small minivans in Venezuela that this reminded me of. One was a Daihatsu, I think. My wife thought they were really cute, but I don't like that boxy look.

[skrivis]

The problem is those types of cars weighed from 1200 to 1500 pounds in a lot of instances.  Now you cant make cars out of those types of materials and meet safety regulations, not to mention even IF you could, making a 1200 pound care marketable in a world of 6000 pound SUVs.  The other issue is, it takes anywhere from 3-5 years to develop anything more than cosmetic changes to a car.  5 years ago, no one was worried about the price of gas, the .com bubble hadn't burst and prosperity meant the beginning of  ...

I think that the hybrid vehicles have been pushed to get closer to zero emissions for California. Better fuel economy was simply a side effect.

The lack of concern in the US for fuel economy is the real culprit.

[CJ Paul]

The lack of concern in the US for fuel economy is the real culprit.

 As someone who drives a Dodge Ram w/ Hemi, I still agree with that statement.  But its not totally the consumer's faults.  The options for more efficient vehicles that have features consumer wants are VERY slim.  How many hybrid SUVs are there?  3-4?  I know there is a ford escape hybrid, I thought there was going to be a rav-4 one and maybe a CR-V hybrid.  Other than that???  Or hell, as long as you've alredy tried to make trucks and SUVs appeal by being "badass" why not throw more effecient turbo-deisels in them?  Its a truck after all.  I'd take a mid-size SUV with a torquey (which they ALWAYS are) but effecient deisel.

[Carlman]

OK... So, I went to drive 2 cars tonight:
Base Model BMW 325i
Subaru Legacy GT

I never got to the Subie.

I get why people buy BMW's.  There's nothing like it.  Perfect car for me.

Now, I just have to figure out how to buy one.  Ordering a base model 2005 w/ aluminum trim in a new car is impossible.  The '05 model is now out of production.  That would've been about 29,k.  The new base price is 31,k for the 2006 which has been redesigned by Chris Bengal. sp?  It looks like it might be very nice but I really like the older body style.

I've done some web seraching for an 2003+ base model with manual with little luck.  I guess I'll keep searching.... My wife isn't too pleased about me buying a new car for 5,k more than I'd told her I was looking... ugh.

Thanks for the idea of the BMW... I'll find a way...

-C

[fabaudio]

Carlman,
  I'm really glad you had the opportunity to check out the BMW. Is there a dealership near you? Another good place to shop is Ebay motors. Good luck!

[bubba966]

OK... So, I went to drive 2 cars tonight:
Base Model BMW 325i
Subaru Legacy GT

I never got to the Subie.

I get why people buy BMW's.  There's nothing like it.  Perfect car for me.

 

That happened just about like I said it would...  

Got to take my buddies M5 out again tonight. Didn't get to do much with it as I had 5 other people in it w/me. But still that's a damn awesome ride.

Carl, do yourself a favor and STAY OUT OF ANY BMW THAT'S NOT A 325! I was "ruined" by starting out with riding & driving in an M5 frequently. So now I want as good or better than that when I get a BMW. It's not cheap or easy to do either as good (another M5 or highly modded 540) or better (IMO a severely modded 540) than that.

Have fun with your 325 when you find one. Try cars.com if you're having difficulties. They seem to search online classifieds as well as list ads placed just with them.

Currently cars.com lists 72 '05 325's for sale in the US, 1,047 '04 325's, & 838 '03 325's. Which is damn near 2,000 '03-'05 325's for sale (with probably more listed on eBay) in the country. You ought to be able to find one that fits your need out of that kind of selection...

[bubba966]

Have you tried checking BMW's site for CPO cars in your area?

http://www.bmwusa.com/CPO/

Looks like there's over 300 CPO 3 series manuals within 500 miles of Durham. Granted that's counting 'verts/coupes/sedans/wagons. But I don't recall reading which specific body 325 you were looking for.

[cbj]

As you have figured out BMW already quit production of the 05 325, so the bad news is you might have some trouble finding a car with the options you like.  The good news is that BMW currently is offering incentives to dealers to clear out the 05 3 series sedans.  On the 325 there is a $2500 incentive, so you should be able to get one for about $4000 under sticker.  At the point the the dealer is still making a $1000 profit and making space for the new body style which is hitting the lots this month.  We looked at the 3 series about a month ago and there was only one manual of the 20+ cars on the lot, so good luck looking.

[Hantra]

Carl:

Having not seen the new e90 body style in person, I'll have to reserve judgement.  Many cars in photos don't have near the same impact as they do in person.  I suspect the e90 will be one of these.

It's almost insane to buy a new BMW these days though.  With the CPO plan being one of the best in the biz, you just can't beat a 100,000 mile warranty.  That free maintenance is nice too.  

Plus, if you go with a CPO, you can get more goodies.  Like the sport package.  I know you'd like that.  

On another note for the Audi guys. . .  I was looking (gawking) at the new F-430 yesterday, and it appears that Ferrari has gone back to 4 valves per cylinder from 5.  The dealer said that Audi had done the same.  Apparently the 5 valve thing was a band-aid to get more power.  Once they figured out a good reliable way to get more power, they figured 4 was enough, and 5 merely added to cost of manufacturing, and maintenance, as well as decreased reliability.

[Jay S]

Carl,

Congrats on your discovery!  I had read about and lusted after the 3 series for years before I drove one, and then I knew I had to have one...  If you're searching for used, keep an eye out for the Sport suspension.  It will not cost you anything extra on the used market but if you want fun, the Sport suspension is the way to go.  

On my part, I have not had a car for a few years since there is no huge need in Hong Kong -- taxis are everywhere and they are cheap.  However, we have just moved to a place that is slightly less convenient... and so now we are talking about a car again (though this may take 6-12 months to act on).  The used car market in HK is very good since cars depreciate very quickly.  After much consideration, there are 2 cars on the top of the list -- a 330i sedan and a 330Ci convertible -- as I've realized that the 3 series is a great match for me (though I reserve judgement on the E90....).  Fortunately for me, all E46 330's in HK have the Sport suspension.

[hometheaterdoc]

Hey,

I'm late to the party, and admittedly didn't read every single post... but after hearing Carl mention test driving cars the last couple times we chatted, I clicked on a post link and saw some of the comments...

I am seriously in the minority here I think... I just don't like BMW... every single model I've driven below the M5 immediately made me say out loud "Gutless" and "Yuck" no matter if real world numbers confirm that sentiment or not.  I just didn't like the torque curve or the feel of the cars, especially the 3 series (seriously uncomfortable tiny box of a car.. absolutely hated the 12 or 13 different ones I've driven over the last 5 years).  For what you get up to $40K, I just couldn't ever own one.  The M5 and 7 series sedans were nice, but pricey... and no matter how much I drive every year (50K plus per year in year's past) I can't ever justify spending big cash on a vehicle unless it was an original 427 cobra or a '69 Boss 429 Mustang.... maybe a Hemi 'Cuda  

I guess I like a little less refinement and a little more lack of control...