[Danny Richie]

One of them arrived damaged with the binding posts broken off the tweeter. So I plan on using a pair as midwoofers in a 2 way. But the tweeters are very good. And can play very loud with no fatigue.

I agree, they are excellent.

[Danny Richie]

That can easily be solved with SOTA DSP.

But that is solving one problem and creating another.

[Low distortion]

Potential buyers can't make heads of tails out of those colored illustrations. They aren't even useful to me. They don't tell me specifically what they are doing at a given off axis position and frequency.

Tell the folks at ASR that. Unfortunately that’s where the majority of the audiophile traffic is at these days.

[Low distortion]

But that is solving one problem and creating another.

Sounds like you have no experience with today’s best DSP systems.

[david45]

Having designed both of those speakers I can tell you it is not a lobbing issue.

What has been your experience like regarding the Line Forces and their sweet spot, Danny? Say compared to your NX-Tremes and NX-Oticas? Do you feel like this is something that would need improvement?

As far as time alignment is concerned between the mid array and the tweeters, I would assume that toe in can make a big difference here and that keeping them relatively straight would be preferable?

What do you think is the issue here and why isn’t Jaytor (or wasn’t) completely satisfied with them?

[Low distortion]

The dispersion pattern narrows exponentially starting at ~300Hz, and by the time it reaches 1Hkz where it only has decent output to 20 degrees, by 30 degrees it drops by ~20dB
and if you move more that 5 degrees off axis it tanks in output above 4KHz.

A speaker with such a rapidly narrowing polar plot will have an incredibly small sweet spot. it has to be pointed directly at the listener. anyone else even 5 degrees off-axis loses 80% of the treble.

This tells a bit different of a story:

https://www.alconsaudio.com/wp-content/plugins/download-attachments/includes/download.php?id=310

More info here:


https://www.tpimagazine.com/alcons-extend-qr24-coverage/


“The QR24 remains a unique tool in the sound designers toolbox. We always get surprised looks when we demonstrate the unique razor-sharp edged vertical dispersion or the intelligibility at distances in excess of 100 metres with only 2 QR24 on a tripod stand.”


We also need to keep in mind that these speakers can play up to 140dB each. The reason I’ve been using them as an example is to show that aligning the acoustic centres in line array speakers has benefits.

[S Clark]

I'm curious, Low Distortion, have you actually heard the Line Force speakers?    All  25 of your post are in this thread, so I'm wondering if you actually have any knowledge about what they sound like.  You are also listed as an "Industry Participant".  With what company are you affiliated?

[Low distortion]

I'm curious, Low Distortion, have you actually heard the Line Force speakers?    All  25 of your post are in this thread, so I'm wondering if you actually have any knowledge about what they sound like.

No not yet. Just stumbled upon this thread due to my interest in the new Radian drivers. And since the line force is an obsolete design (drivers no longer available) I don’t see any harm in brainstorming different implementation ideas with the new Radian drivers.

[S Clark]

Can you share what is your industry affiliation?

[adminRH]

Sounds like you have no experience with today’s best DSP systems.

^Don't do this. You are new to AC, so show us your best attitude. We don't tolerate recreational antagonists here.

Read the Posting guidelines for this site, which state:

Defamatory remarks
    Do not use this site to make defamatory remarks about people or organisations. Apart from potentially causing damage to this site, it's cheap and nasty behavior. If you say something negative, ensure that it is factual and not speculative.

Sorry for the interruption, Danny and members.

[Low distortion]

^Don't do this. You are new to AC, so show us your best attitude. We don't tolerate recreational antagonists here.

Read the Posting guidelines for this site, which state:

Defamatory remarks
    Do not use this site to make defamatory remarks about people or organisations. Apart from potentially causing damage to this site, it's cheap and nasty behavior. If you say something negative, ensure that it is factual and not speculative.

Sorry for the interruption, Danny and members.

That was not meant to antagonize. It was meant to perhaps spark a constructive conversation about what’s possible today with DSP.

[Low distortion]

Can you share what is your industry affiliation?

I know you guys already went on my website, because my email has my domain name. But to be clear, I don’t sell anything on the retail market. So no competition with GR.

More info here:

https://www.mnsintegration.com/

[adminRH]

That was not meant to antagonize. It was meant to perhaps spark a constructive conversation about what’s possible today with DSP.

Then it was not well stated.

Please consider my advice in your future posts, and please read the Posting guidelines.

Thanks, and welcome to AudioCircle.

[Low distortion]

Then it was not well stated.

Please consider my advice in your future posts, and please read the Posting guidelines.

Thanks, and welcome to AudioCircle.

Will do thank you.

[mlundy57]

That was not meant to antagonize. It was meant to perhaps spark a constructive conversation about what’s possible today with DSP.

Since Danny has made it clear his design philosophy doesn't include DSP, The Lab circle, https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=20.0 , might be a better place to generate the conversation you are looking for.

[Low distortion]

Since Danny has made it clear his design philosophy doesn't include DSP, The Lab circle, https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=20.0 , might be a better place to generate the conversation you are looking for.

There’s no point in starting a conversation about DSP that nobody is interested in. So I suppose there’s probably nothing of value I can add.

[Jaytor]

The planar coaxial. Looks like someone thought of that already:

https://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php-90.html?id=bms_4508nd

https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxial-ribbon/products/6crn38lt6-line-array-driver

PS Audio tried the planar coaxial approach with one of their early prototypes and gave on on this design.

[Low distortion]

PS Audio tried the planar coaxial approach with one of their early prototypes and gave on on this design.

That’s good to know. They obviously tried that approach because they understood the potential. Might be better off with the BMS 4508nd drivers to make a line source with perfectly aligned acoustic centres, and uniform polar response.

[Tyson]

PS Audio tried the planar coaxial approach with one of their early prototypes and gave on on this design.

I heard that exact setup, and it was ..... not good. 

In fact, I've also run a coaxial system in my own home setup (passive and later fully active).  It was meh.  Now that I think about it, I've actually heard quite a few coaxial setups over the years and none of them sounded amazing. 

With coaxial speakers that had a round woofer and a round tweeter in the middle, the soundstage never left the speakers.  With coaxial speakers that had the drivers co-located (ie, the tweeter in front of the midrange) the midrange had this weird ghostly quality to it.  Pretty much like if you put a big ass tweeter in front of your mouth, it's going to make your voice sound weird. 

In some applications, maybe you can't get away from a coax setup due to space limitations (like a car), but in all other instances, it's best avoided if you want the best sound quality.

[Low distortion]

But that being said. That wasn’t a line array either. Perhaps the tweeter could be located between dual LT10’s with no gap between the LT10’s. And the tweeter would barely cover the front of each of the LT10’s. So make an assembly out of 2x LT10’s and a single LT2 with waveguide. And line several of them of vertically. To try to duplicate what BMS has done. But with a much shallower mounting depth.