[JasonB]

I love mountain biking, been riding for about 7 years. I'm a young adrenaline junkie so downhill riding is my passion.
Currently have only one bike but I think I may build up a nice commuting hardtail this summer. It seems like some hobbies go hand in hand.


My Turner DHR, pre-season before I picked out a saddle, cut the post, and mounted a front brake. This thing is FAST, rails corners, and floats through the air effortlessly.




Anyone here into fine timepieces?  I've also found a connection between audiophiles and nice watches. This is the first watch in my collection, a Marcello C Nettuno 3; impeccable finish, very solid bracelet, +2 sec a day. With a price of under $800, I'm hard presssed to ever justify paying 4 large for a Rolex Submariner or any other overpriced diver. Though the Omega Aqua Terra is on my must own list.

[BikeWNC]

A Turner Flux is on my radar for later this year.  Don't need more than 4 inches of suspension nor do I want the extra weight.  I mainly ride marathon type rides and the extra comfort of the fs will be nice to have.  I currently have a IF Deluxe steel ht which while being a great bike has every so often made me wish I had a rear shock - think one day ride of the White Rim.

Andy

[maxwalrath]

Thanks Canyoneagle!  The bike will be used for getting around town to friend's houses, getting around town, etc., and on weekends taking it though Fairmount Park and out into the burbs on little day trips.  I don't know the performance differences between parts, could you say what the performance differnces might be between the Milano and the Boardwalk besides the wheel covers?

[Canyoneagle]

****Disclaimer****  Everything here is IMHO ****
CONTEXT:  IMO, you are seeking something functional, fun to ride and easy to maintain.

The short version:  In the Bianchi line, go for the Milano.
Performance-wise, the Boardwalk will probably offer a slight advantage on spirited riding, as it is more 'hybrid'-like.
The Milano (IMO) is a blast to ride, but is a bit more forgiving and relaxed in nature.

I've owned some pretty high zoot bikes, and everytime I get on my Milano I can't help but smile.  The bike is just so un-fussy and fun.


I've posted pictures of both bikes below for reference.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, here are the things that hit me right away....

RIDING POSITION:
First and foremost, the Boardwalk has a basically 'flat' handlebar (like most mountain bikes) mounted on a 'threadless' headset, which can pose limitations on adjustability.  Additionally, if you are tall (which you are), your seatopost will be pretty high, even on a large frame.  So, if you want to alleviate the pressure on your arms/wrists/hands (and the fatigue that results), you would raise the handlebars to give you a more upright riding postion.  On the Boardwalk, this would likely involve custom odering an un-cut front fork (or an aftermarket fork) to give you that flexibility.  Cost:  About $120 to $180 including parts and labor if an aftermarket fork is purchased (no shocks), or a nominal fee if the factory is able to provide an uncut fork plus the labor of the swap.
You could also plump for a shock fork, but with it comes the added cost and maintenance of a shock fork.  IMO, this is not necessary.

The Milano comes equipped for a more upright, casual riding position, due to its swept-back handlebars and threaded stem (which is more easily raised or lowered than a threadless design).  This means that you won't be bent over the bars taking the shock through your arms.

WHEELS
The Boardwalk has 700c (27") wheels, which tend to roll over small imperfections more easily than 26" wheels (as on the Milano and most mountain bikes).  This comes at the cost of a slightly weaker structure - as the spokes get longer (for a given hub width), the wheel will have slightly more flex, which will increase the likelyhood of the wheel going out of true.  ALL wheels will need periodic tuning, but in my experience, the 27" wheels will generally have a lower tolerance for potholes,etc than the 26" wheels.  There are exceptions, of course, but IMO there is a reason that mountain bikes have smaller wheels - they are more durable.

The Milano has Mountain-bike sized 26" wheels, which are durable and can be shod with a variety of tires.  For winter riding, you can even install studded snowtires (you'd have to work with the fenders).
26" wheels generally allow for easier starts (better acceleration for a given gear ratio) and are a bit stronger than 27" wheels.

DRIVETRAIN

For drivetrain, the Boardwalk has a triple front chainring and an 8 speed rear cog, yielding 24 gears to choose from.  For your purposes, this does not really offer much benefit over the relatively simple (wide range) 8-speed on the Milano.  The derailleurs add to the overall maintenance, especially with the less expensive bicycles.  In addition, derailleurs require more vigilant (read: higher rider involvement) riding than internally-geared hubs.  You have to constantly be aware of which chainring you're in, with which cog, and you must trim and adjust the front derailleur to avoid rubbing.  This is second-hand to cycling enthusiasts who have spent enough time in the saddle, but represents an unnecessary headache for your purposes.

By contrast, the Milano drivetrain is based on a single front chainring (i.e. no front derailleur) and an internally-geared rear hub with 8 speeds over a wide range (i.e. no rear derailleur).  This represents a significantly simpler drivetrain than a conventional derailleured bike.  To demonstrate, take a look at the pictures, and focus on the chainline and everything associated with it.
For example, I can climb a pretty steep hill on the low gear on my Milano, and still cruise at 30+ MPH down the backside without running out of gears.  I'm very impressed with the Nexus drivetrain.


PICS:

Boardwalk:



Web: http://www.bianchiusa.com/07_boardwalk.html

MILANO:



Web:  http://www.bianchiusa.com/07_milano.html

JUST FOR THE HECK OF IT:

Here's a Cannondale that uses the Nexus system:



Web:  http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/ce/model-4SS3K.html

[Folsom]

%(&#(&R%TFYCCK#W)*#%* I typed up a huge message and my browser shit on me.

Anyways... back to the laberos grind.



I would rather have that over a Cannondale. I think Cannondales blow personally. Fenders, some what upright, 26 inch wheels, large platform pedals, and it comes up to a 22 inch frame. I am 6'2" and ride around a 20 in mountain bike and 60-62 roadbike usually. Just have them size you, that is the most important thing to buying any bike.

You can easily get a new stem and stem extender if you start with a bike that is too over the handlebars. Truth is though you want weight on the hands if you ride for more than an hour. If you have a bike ordered it might require the fork be cut, request to have it not cut until you figure out handlebar height. Why did your wrist get beat up? You are not riding on sidewalk are you?


$22


$15

True that threaded heaset setups with threaded stems are easily adjustable for the most part, but they also suck. They are not nearly as dependable, they like to get stuck in not straight positions and pushed out of straight easy. Plus the system is just a pain that required a hammer or something to remove (you have to bash the bolt down after making it loose, to break it free).

Wheels

700c is not 27 inch. 27 inch is an old dated no longer used size. There is a reason 700c is called 700c.

700c does not roll over anything easier. You are more likely to start to roll over something then fall of the side of it (even pebals). The reason is the tire width is very small in comparrison to 26 inch based wheels. True there are a few 700c large sized, like 700x40-45, but rarely can a bike fit them (even most cyclecross tops out before then). 29er mountain bikes do not count; they rollover anything and give a more plush ride without shocks than anything, but everyone of them has an aggressive riding stance.

26 in is not the mountain bike's only size. They at one point had some 24 inch too. The 29er is the new thing and works great. It is true that 26 in stays true better because of less spoke length means any exageration of side to side is simply smaller.

The truth is that 700c gives a better ride when you are on flat road. The are much more efficient and the flex in the spokes, if your wheels is built/trued ride, can work to your bennefit. The flex actually helps prevent the wheel becoming untrue because it has some room to breath without yanking the rim out of a true. Also the flex makes a nicer ride for absorbing small variences like engaging the freewheel, rolling road, sharp turns, etc... The 26 has the advantage for taking potholes, pebals, and other obsticales because it has a big fat absorbing tire.

Drive Train
Nexus drive train? sure... I am not so sure about the 30mph with only a front chainring at size 32, ok I know it will not work out unless the cadence is VERY high. Fun for putting around? Sure!

Derailurs a pain? Well actually if you buy a bike new you got warrenty and free check-ups at any semi decent bike shop. You do not have to fight having them adjusted in this case. The only probably is if you are mentally deficient and try to cross the chain by choosing the hardest gear in front and easiest in back. The hardest in back and easiest in front are usually completely compatible. Again, not an issue to sway you from choosing between one bike and another unless they are on par with comfort.

Bikes

Cannondales... Ecentric bottom bracket? RUN AWAY. These things always end up squeaking or worse. Also the 700c wheels, well your decision, speed or comfort. (26 comfort, 700c speed) Suspencion seat post, yeah for a month then it is a loose seat that does not help anything. Seats are suppose to be hard and supportive. I gurantee a proper hard supportive seat will be more comfortable always. You can try to argue but unless you suggest a recumberant you will loose via fact. I recommend Brooks Saddles or Fizik (aggressive oriented bike only). Also not made in your size. No comfort of steel

Milano... nice, sure, but back pedal style brake? Send it back to hell! No comfort of steel.

Boardwalk... Nothing wrong here, can adjust everything. Not a nexus hub, but that is ok. It does have 700c wheels so comfort factor? No comfort of steel.

Smoke... Steel! Woo comfot! 26 inch wheels woo comfort! Fenders, plent of gearing! Decently upright position which can be changed to anything for under $50, sweet pedals, no back pedal brake. The only thing it lacks is the Nexus but that is not something I care about.

[Folsom]

A gift I got from my mother. The money might of been better to have but I am going to enjoy the hell out of this.

[Levi]

Nice Mountain bike.  Isn't the frame a little small for you?

A gift I got from my mother. The money might of been better to have but I am going to enjoy the hell out of this.

[Folsom]

20 inch which is the recommended size from a 60 road.

The seat is 44 and a half inches off the ground.

[Levi]

When you stradle the frame, how many inches do you have left?

[Folsom]

A lot. Mountain bikes are intended to be that way. It also has a top tube that is the longest I have ever owned. I have a like 64-67 road frame that does not even come close (old). I also have a modern geometry (road) that is a 60 and still not as long (shorter by an inch or more).

Why on earth do you think it is small? It feels massives.

[Levi]

The picture looks like the seat post is on it's max length.  Looks could be deceiving.

[Folsom]

It goes up a ways bit more but... so what? If the top tube was any longer I would hate the bike.

The standover height is between 31-35 inches. My bike that racks me if I am not on level ground is at 35.5 inches tall. Therefor is I stand at the front of my Inbred it can almost rack me. I guess my crotch space is not too much, but it feels like a lot because almost every bike I have owned it close to or giving me some support.

I would like to point out that Kona does not even make a bike that is even 35 inches standover. The largest mountain bike they made is 22 inches (mines is 20). That is for comparrison with a common (but decent) manufacturer.

[Levi]

Flight deck view.

[Canyoneagle]

%(&#(&R%TFYCCK#W)*#%* I typed up a huge message and my browser shit on me.

Anyways... back to the laberos grind.



I would rather have that over a Cannondale. I think Cannondales blow personally. Fenders, some what upright, 26 inch wheels, large platform pedals, and it comes up to a 22 inch frame. I am 6'2" and ride around a 20 in mountain bike and 60-62 roadbike usually. Just have them size you, that is the most important thing to buying any bike.

You can easily get a new stem and stem extender if you start with a bike that is too over the handlebars. Truth is though you want weight on the hands if you ride for more than an hour. If you have a bike ordered it might require the fork be cut, request to have it not cut until you figure out handlebar height. Why did your wrist get beat up? You are not riding on sidewalk are you?


$22


$15

True that threaded heaset setups with threaded stems are easily adjustable for the most part, but they also suck. They are not nearly as dependable, they like to get stuck in not straight positions and pushed out of straight easy. Plus the system is just a pain that required a hammer or something to remove (you have to bash the bolt down after making it loose, to break it free).

Wheels

700c is not 27 inch. 27 inch is an old dated no longer used size. There is a reason 700c is called 700c.

700c does not roll over anything easier. You are more likely to start to roll over something then fall of the side of it (even pebals). The reason is the tire width is very small in comparrison to 26 inch based wheels. True there are a few 700c large sized, like 700x40-45, but rarely can a bike fit them (even most cyclecross tops out before then). 29er mountain bikes do not count; they rollover anything and give a more plush ride without shocks than anything, but everyone of them has an aggressive riding stance.

26 in is not the mountain bike's only size. They at one point had some 24 inch too. The 29er is the new thing and works great. It is true that 26 in stays true better because of less spoke length means any exageration of side to side is simply smaller.

The truth is that 700c gives a better ride when you are on flat road. The are much more efficient and the flex in the spokes, if your wheels is built/trued ride, can work to your bennefit. The flex actually helps prevent the wheel becoming untrue because it has some room to breath without yanking the rim out of a true. Also the flex makes a nicer ride for absorbing small variences like engaging the freewheel, rolling road, sharp turns, etc... The 26 has the advantage for taking potholes, pebals, and other obsticales because it has a big fat absorbing tire.

Drive Train
Nexus drive train? sure... I am not so sure about the 30mph with only a front chainring at size 32, ok I know it will not work out unless the cadence is VERY high. Fun for putting around? Sure!

Derailurs a pain? Well actually if you buy a bike new you got warrenty and free check-ups at any semi decent bike shop. You do not have to fight having them adjusted in this case. The only probably is if you are mentally deficient and try to cross the chain by choosing the hardest gear in front and easiest in back. The hardest in back and easiest in front are usually completely compatible. Again, not an issue to sway you from choosing between one bike and another unless they are on par with comfort.

Bikes

Cannondales... Ecentric bottom bracket? RUN AWAY. These things always end up squeaking or worse. Also the 700c wheels, well your decision, speed or comfort. (26 comfort, 700c speed) Suspencion seat post, yeah for a month then it is a loose seat that does not help anything. Seats are suppose to be hard and supportive. I gurantee a proper hard supportive seat will be more comfortable always. You can try to argue but unless you suggest a recumberant you will loose via fact. I recommend Brooks Saddles or Fizik (aggressive oriented bike only). Also not made in your size. No comfort of steel

Milano... nice, sure, but back pedal style brake? Send it back to hell! No comfort of steel.

Boardwalk... Nothing wrong here, can adjust everything. Not a nexus hub, but that is ok. It does have 700c wheels so comfort factor? No comfort of steel.

Smoke... Steel! Woo comfot! 26 inch wheels woo comfort! Fenders, plent of gearing! Decently upright position which can be changed to anything for under $50, sweet pedals, no back pedal brake. The only thing it lacks is the Nexus but that is not something I care about.

Hi, destroyer.

A couple of things for clarity........

First and foremost, I was trying to address the context of a non-cyclist - i.e. ease of use and lowest maintenance.  I know there are countless options out there, and you've posed another one for his consideration.  Kona makes GREAT bikes for the money.

Thanks for the threadless extender pics - I'd totally forgotten that they are now making those.

I do know that 700c and 27" are not exactly the same, I was trying to address the post to a non-cyclist, and for that purpose, they are effectively the same.  My point was to relate it to the 26" so he could see that 700c was more like  27".
I do realize that 700c wheels with skinny tires deflect more than they roll, but 700c wheels with moderately fat tires (as on the boardwalk) are much more forgiving, and err more on the side or 29'ers than standard 700c's.  Again, I was trying to address the specific situation here.  Perhaps I could have been a bit more clear on that one.


I also know that derailleurs aren't a pain if you know your way around a bike, and if you are aware of the finer points of front/back alignment.  Again, I was trying to keep the context to someone who isn't a cyclist. 

For headsets, I agree that the newer threadless styles are stronger.  The threaded headsets aren't really that bad (especially if you're not bashing around off road), and, if properly installed can be adjusted with a light tap and hold quite well.  Yet again, for purposes of this person's needs, it really doesn't matter that much.

FYI - The Milano doesn't have a coaster brake.  It is a hub brake (sealed drum) similar to the old Sachs brakes with a bar-mounted lever, just like any other brake (except a coaster).  Virtually maintenance free and they offer an extremely long service life.

For gearing, the Milano's (or other Nexus-equipped bike with similar specs) range is from 30 gear inches to 93 gear inches, versus the slightly wider range of 23 to 117 on the baordwalk (or any similar bike).  IMO, the added complexity of derailleurs simply doesn't make sense for this person's purposes.

Yes, when I have my Milano up over 30 I am spinning away.  It's all the speed I need these days.

Like you, I tend to like steel over any other material.  Unfortunately, there aren't many good steel frames in his price range.  Otherwise, I'd have suggested Surly, ANT, or many, many other great options.

IMO, for the non-cyclist, I stick to the KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) principle.  Easiest functionality with the least maintenance.

Keep the pedals spinning!

Warmly,
Michael

[fajimr]

just to add something a little different to the mix-

something in between the Milano and a more traditional road bike.  I added a taller stem and these moustache bars to my bianchi volpe (a touring bike)- it makes for a great townie bike! (Edit for disclaimer: as an ex-racer I feel pretty comfortable hunched over my bars)



you have a semi-upright position for cruising and get down low when you really want to crank!  Get them at rivendale cyles  http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16027.html .  They also have lots of great articles on cycling and cycle fit.

cheers
jim

[Canyoneagle]

A lot. Mountain bikes are intended to be that way. It also has a top tube that is the longest I have ever owned. I have a like 64-67 road frame that does not even come close (old). I also have a modern geometry (road) that is a 60 and still not as long (shorter by an inch or more).

Why on earth do you think it is small? It feels massives.

Yep, I agree here too.

I think the sloping top tube throws alot of folks off.

I used to ride with frames that were 2-3 cm smaller than 'optimal' because I preferred the stiffness/responsiveness of a smaller frame.  Of course, I had to be careful to get a frame with a long top tube!!!!!

Cheers,

[Canyoneagle]

just to add something a little different to the mix-

something in between the Milano and a more traditional road bike.  I added a taller stem and these moustache bars to my bianchi volpe (a touring bike)- it makes for a great townie bike! (Edit for disclaimer: as an ex-racer I feel pretty comfortable hunched over my bars)



you have a semi-upright position for cruising and get down low when you really want to crank!  Get them at rivendale cyles  http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16027.html .  They also have lots of great articles on cycling and cycle fit.

cheers
jim

I totally love moustache bars!
Great suggestion as an alternative.

[Canyoneagle]

I'm a fitness road cyclist...~100 mi/week. Litespeed/Campy Record bike. FWIW, I think the Milano is a very cool ride, and I thank Canyoneagle for pointing it out.

Litespeed w/ campy record.    NICE!

[Levi]

XTR groupo, Mavic crossmax SL wheels, ChrisKing Ti headset, Ti Cogs, Litespeed Ti frame and bolts = sub 20lb mountain goat.  Bua ha ha ha

[SET Man]

Hey!

    First.... Levi, I've always amazed of how do you keep your Litespeed MT bike so clean

   Anyway, as for myself. I actually mothballed my Klein road bike until the weather get warmer >50*F

   Until than she will sit there waiting. Hmm... I think I should do some dusting.

   For now I get to spend more time with my audio.

Take care,
Buddy