[Early B.]

Making subjective comparisons in an uncontrolled experiment is not science.  It is exactly the opposite of science.  No matter how many times you or others here try to call it science, it isn't.  So call it what it is:  a subjective opinion poll.

Ever heard of "social science?"  Social science is all about making "subjective comparisons" as you put it.

Social science is the branch of science devoted to the study of societies and the relationships among individuals within those societies. The term was formerly used to refer to the field of sociology, the original "science of society", established in the 19th century. In addition to sociology, it now encompasses a wide array of academic disciplines, including anthropology, archaeology, economics, human geography, linguistics, management science, media studies, musicology, political science, psychology, welfare and nursing studies and social history.

Note that "musicology" is a form of social science.

[S Clark]

I have a pair I like, and will eventually buy more.  I trust my ears.  If you don't trust yours, then why are you even wasting your time at an audiophile site?

[ServerAdmin]

I've noticed that the tone of the thread has taken a turn for the worse.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Making subjective comparisons in an uncontrolled experiment is not science.  It is exactly the opposite of science.  No matter how many times you or others here try to call it science, it isn't.  So call it what it is:  a subjective opinion poll.

You can pan double blind listening tests with a qualified panel all you want, but that is as scientific as anyone has gotten in audio performance comparisons.

There have been references to a YouTube video with Ron comparing speakers with and without tube connectors.  I could only find the one video with his brother and that has already been discussed.  If there is another I would be interested in seeing it if you can provide the link.

The video I referred to is in the 2nd half of the A/B comparison of the stock Klipsch RP600M vs Danny's upgraded RP600M. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JP4OINiQ14

[diyman]

The video I referred to is in the 2nd half of the A/B comparison of the stock Klipsch RP600M vs Danny's upgraded RP600M. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JP4OINiQ14

Thanks for link.  I'll take a look at it.

[Danny Richie]

You guys be nice. We don't want to convey a bad tone while educating.

Making subjective comparisons in an uncontrolled experiment is not science.  It is exactly the opposite of science.  No matter how many times you or others here try to call it science, it isn't.  So call it what it is:  a subjective opinion poll.

Listening to music is a subjective experience. In the end it's all that matters. The enjoyment isn't looking at graphs and data. The question is always does it improve the listening experience or not. That is the first thing that has to be established.

You can pan double blind listening tests with a qualified panel all you want, but that is as scientific as anyone has gotten in audio performance comparisons.

Yes, I've heard the catch phrase, but double blind comparisons are not possible as the person doing the switching always knows which is which. And again, it doesn't matter if the person doing the switching knows or not.

[WGH]

Yes, I've heard the catch phrase, but double blind comparisons are not possible as the person doing the switching always knows which is which.

I hate double blind comparisons, I think your brain needs time to recognize a sound and quick switching confuses it. Differences in sound can easily be heard in a more relaxed setting.
But for a certain sub-set of audiophiles there is the AVA ABX Switch Comparator
https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/abx-switch-comparator

[Danny Richie]

I hate double blind comparisons, I think your brain needs time to recognize a sound and quick switching confuses it. Differences in sound can easily be heard in a more relaxed setting.
But for a certain sub-set of audiophiles there is the AVA ABX Switch Comparator
https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/abx-switch-comparator

We had one made years ago with high end relays and no parts in the signal path. We used high quality wiring and Caradas pure Copper binding posts.



I've spent countless hours A/B comparing things.

It has been very useful.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Man, I wish I could afford such a device. Haha
There's a lot of products I say that about...
Oscilloscope, measuring equipment, wood working tools, you name it... I've probably wanted it at one point or another...

[JakeJ]

Gee, you sound normal.  Do NOT visit festool.com!  Danger, Will Robinson, danger!

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Gee, you sound normal.  Do NOT visit festool.com!  Danger, Will Robinson, danger!

Hey, I try.
Dont you *ever* tell me not doo something.
I WILL do the opposite out of sheer spite. 
(I already did)

[JakeJ]

Well your wallet is danger, that's for sure. 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Well your wallet is danger, that's for sure. 

Trust me, it's always in danger.

Between my interest in Scotch/Bourbon, audio fidelity, and more recently, DIY audio & now 3D printing, my wallet finds danger at every turn.

Thank goodness my job is solid and pays fairly well. barring major catastrophic economic collapse. Tho it would be nice to make even more so i can indulge in my hobbies further/faster, but getting a 2nd job would mean no time for the things i enjoy.

[diyman]

You guys be nice. We don't want to convey a bad tone while educating.

Listening to music is a subjective experience. In the end it's all that matters. The enjoyment isn't looking at graphs and data. The question is always does it improve the listening experience or not. That is the first thing that has to be established.

Yes, I've heard the catch phrase, but double blind comparisons are not possible as the person doing the switching always knows which is which. And again, it doesn't matter if the person doing the switching knows or not.

Even a single blind test could be meaningful if done right.  But when the tester tells the subject that 'now you're listening to the tube connectors' and then 'now you're listening to the regular binding posts', the results of that kind of testing is completely meaningless.  Particularly when the subject can barely distinguish between the two types of connectors at all.  Plus who knows what kind of expectations were discussed between the tester and subject to begin with.

[Danny Richie]

Even a single blind test could be meaningful if done right.  But when the tester tells the subject that 'now you're listening to the tube connectors' and then 'now you're listening to the regular binding posts', the results of that kind of testing is completely meaningless.  Particularly when the subject can barely distinguish between the two types of connectors at all.  Plus who knows what kind of expectations were discussed between the tester and subject to begin with.

Don't worry. I know how to conduct a blind test.

[mlundy57]

Trust me, it's always in danger.

Between my interest in Scotch/Bourbon, audio fidelity, and more recently, DIY audio & now 3D printing, my wallet finds danger at every turn.

Thank goodness my job is solid and pays fairly well. barring major catastrophic economic collapse. Tho it would be nice to make even more so i can indulge in my hobbies further/faster, but getting a 2nd job would mean no time for the things i enjoy.

Off topic but what are your favorite Scotchs? Mine tend to be Islay's.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Off topic but what are your favorite Scotchs? Mine tend to be Islay's.

Islay all day any day. My #1 distillery of choice is Bruichladdich, which also produces Port Charlotte, Octomore, and The Botanist Gin. I believe nearly 30 of my entire 70-80ish bottle collection is from that one distillery.

[dan2023]

 

 And the mass causes some disruption in the signal transfer.

[/quote]

Danny,  wouldn't there be just as much mass at that amplifier connection?  Have you designed / developed a lower mass connection for the the amplifier connection?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

 And the mass causes some disruption in the signal transfer.



Danny,  wouldn't there be just as much mass at that amplifier connection?  Have you designed / developed a lower mass connection for the the amplifier connection?

Ye, you can replace the binding post on your amplifier end as well.
But since it's often sheet metal, you need to use hot glue or a ring clamp to keep it fastened to the amp frame

[diyman]

 And the mass causes some disruption in the signal transfer.

Don't get too carried away with the idea that the mass (i.e. the size) of the connector will make any difference in the sound you hear.

I have yet to find anyone that has performed legitimate listener tests to prove that it matters, or is even audible.

There are lots of anecdotal accounts, but no real scientific tests.   Nor can I find any studies that measure the so called 'time smear' based on high vs low frequency signal path differences. 

I'm sure you'll find lots of opinions, but not much in the way of real scientific evidence.  Many of the opinions will be presented as science, but they are not.