[Tyson]

As I said up above, the first thing you would have to do is prove to the manufacturers that there really is a sound quality improvement with tube connectors.   So it's not just about existing standards and retooling costs.  It's about whether there is really an improvement or not.  If that could be proven, then there are likely to be at least a few manufacturers that would jump on it as a clear product and marketing advantage. But since that has never been proven, I doubt that any manufacturers will have a interest in offering tube connectors on their products.

Or you could, you know, try it and listen for yourself. 

[diyman]

Or you could, you know, try it and listen for yourself.

I’m sure that there are a lot of people here who believe tube connectors make a difference.  That’s pretty clear from all the posts touting them.

But that’s not proof of any difference.  It’s simply hearsay and opinion from a fan club.  I would expect it to be exactly what it is.

So, yes, I could try it and listen for myself.  But that wouldn’t prove that there is any difference. Confirmation bias is very real and powerful.  People often believe what they want to believe and that phenomenon is well at work in something as subjective as audio quality.

Only properly conducted double blind tests with a large qualified listening panel can make the determination as to whether there is a difference or not.  And to the best of my knowledge, no such tests have ever been conducted.

[Tyson]

So you're an audio enthusiast that doesn't trust his own ears.  That's....odd.

[diyman]

So you're an audio enthusiast that doesn't trust his own ears.  That's....odd.

It's not odd at all.  In fact, confirmation bias is very real as I already pointed out.

But, you miss the entire point of my post.  I was responding to Marvda1's post above  where he said:

"How do you get all the cable, amplifier and speaker manufacturers to convert to tube connecters let alone all the audiophiles that own cables?"

So my point is that you would first have to prove to THEM that there is a difference with tube connectors.  And that, to the best of my knowledge, has never been proven with any kind of reliable test.

Lots of fan boys here.  And that's fine.  If it makes everyone feel good to believe it, so be it.  But that does not prove anything about it being factual.

[corndog71]

I wasn’t even talking about other manufacturers.  It was an idea for Danny to consider.  All that would need to be done is change the molding of the plastic from a round connector to an XLR frame.  It’s probably more trouble than it’s worth but would make installing them in amplifiers a lot easier.
Danny even uses them in his amps although he has them in wooden boxes.


Just an idea. 

[diyman]

I wasn’t even talking about other manufacturers. 

That's true.  You were not talking about other manufacturers.  However, Marvda1 was and that's who I was responding to.  Specifically pointing out that no true double blind tests have been performed to establish whether or not tube connectors make any difference in the sound.

[Folsom]

I think the threading idea with a plastic nut makes the most sense, done in such a way it still is push-in. That idea came up before.

[marvda1]

Just build your own cables.  It's simple enough.

so you are saying, get the tube connectors and build your own cables and the sound will be better than or just as good as any other cable/connector combination on the market?
if this is true the entire cable industry will go out of business.

[Early B.]

Hey guys -- just use the tube connectors as they were intended. We can dream up all kinds of ways to use tube connectors, but then there's this thing called reality. Danny has had a difficult time getting a shipment of tube connectors from a new manufacturer in India. He's finally filled orders that have been backed up for months. Like most tweaks that actually work, tube connectors make a subtle difference. They ain't gonna bust down the walls of the high end audio industry. 

[diyman]

.. Like most tweaks that actually work, tube connectors make a subtle difference. ...

You state that as a fact when in reality it has never been proven that even a subtle difference exists.  It is just an opinion.  And you're certainly entitled to have an opinion, but no one should confuse it with a fact.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Out of curiosity, have you attempted to test them for yourself?

[diyman]

Out of curiosity, have you attempted to test them for yourself?

No.  There is little point in me testing them.  Nothing in electronic theory can possible account for there being a difference in the sound.  I believe what is being reported here is essentially confirmation bias, and I don’t need to spend my time being a part of it.

If and when someone conducts legitimate double blind tests with a qualified panel of listeners and can state that there is a difference, then I’ll become interested.  I’ll be surprised, but I’ll be interested.

[Tyson]

You state that as a fact when in reality it has never been proven that even a subtle difference exists.  It is just an opinion.  And your certainly entitled to have an opinion, but no one should confuse it with a fact.

Maybe, but at least we speak from, you know, actual experience.

I always wonder how people like this ever pick out the rest of their systems.  I mean, most people can't pick out the sound of different amps or DACs in double blind setups.  So do all amps and DACs sound the same?  Can you just get the cheapest thing that measures OK?  Even speakers are hard to differentiate in double blind if they measure similar.  Does that mean you don't have to listen to a speaker, just look at the measurements and buy what measures best? 

Because if bias is as strong a factor as diyman posits, it won't affect just cables or connectors, it'll affect everything in the audio chain.  So I wonder how people like him pick out any piece of gear, ever?  After all, ALL of it is subject to bias.  So I guess they just buy gear without ever listening to it? 

Either they DO listen to gear and make a selection based on sound (which makes them hypocrites) or they DON'T listen to gear and make a selection based on measurements, which to me is just insanity. 

[Early B.]

I always wonder how people like this ever pick out the rest of their systems. 

Well, one thing is certain -- you can't be an audiophile if you neither believe nor attempt to verify that some things improve sound quality.  It's annoying to continually point out the desire for objectivity in an extraordinarily subjective hobby. What's the point of participating on an audio forum -- just to be a contrarian??

[Hobbsmeerkat]

No.  There is little point in me testing them.  Nothing in electronic theory can possible account for there being a difference in the sound.  I believe what is being reported here is essentially confirmation bias, and I don’t need to spend my time being a part of it.

If and when someone conducts legitimate double blind tests with a qualified panel of listeners and can state that there is a difference, then I’ll become interested.  I’ll be surprised, but I’ll be interested.

So your entire argument is based simply on a *lack* of evidence, while also being unwilling to test it for yourself in any way?
Is that not also a form of confirmation bias?

I would think testing should be simpler than even a double-blind test by measuring resistance across a length of cable, split it in half and testing the resistance with different types of connections.
I imagine you could also test using a tone generator & oscilloscope to look for any differences & possible interference that may, or may not arise across the different varieties of connectors at those different frequencies.

I don't have any such equipment, so I personally cannot test these ideas myself. However I'm not unwilling to consider I may be right or wrong regardless. My default position is to defer to those with more experience than myself, until further, more concrete, evidence arrives.

That said, you have to be willing to at least consider all the options available to you, and your own ability to be right or wrong. Even if no such evidence yet exists, either for or against your position.
You have to pose the right questions to the right people that can test such a theory and come to your own conclusions based om those results.

[corndog71]

I would also like to throw out there that regardless of how they sound they make a very nice, tight connection.

[WC]

I like them better than binding posts. Still haven't compared the sound yet, but I just built 3 speakers and I put tube connectors on two of the speakers and speakons on two of the speakers, and will add to the third when I buy more tube connectors. Using speakons for all the amps I am building, but I may also add tube connectors to my monoblocks when I build them. No binding posts. When I convert my JBL Studio 530s to active, I will get rid of their binding posts and replace them with speakons. At ~$60 per pair tube connectors are not inexpensive, so I just pick my spots for their usage.

Speakons come in an XLR sized package already. 

[diyman]

...
I would think testing should be simpler than even a double-blind test by measuring resistance across a length of cable, split it in half and testing the resistance with different types of connections.
I imagine you could also test using a tone generator & oscilloscope to look for any differences & possible interference that may, or may not arise across the different varieties of connectors at those different frequencies.

I don't have any such equipment, so I personally cannot test these ideas myself. However I'm not unwilling to consider I may be right or wrong regardless. My default position is to defer to those with more experience than myself, until further, more concrete, evidence arrives.

...

I submit based on solid electrical theory that doing the tests you propose with quality, clean connectors will show no significant difference in total resistance or any other measurable parameters.  So I think it is incumbent on those who think there will be a difference to do the tests.  To the best of my knowledge no such test reports have been produced.  However, I'm open to accept the results if legitimate tests are conducted.

[diyman]

..
Either they DO listen to gear and make a selection based on sound (which makes them hypocrites) or they DON'T listen to gear and make a selection based on measurements, which to me is just insanity.

Of course there are major differences in sound quality based on many factors.  Good quality speaker connectors are just not one of them.

[diyman]

Well, one thing is certain -- you can't be an audiophile if you neither believe nor attempt to verify that some things improve sound quality.  It's annoying to continually point out the desire for objectivity in an extraordinarily subjective hobby. What's the point of participating on an audio forum -- just to be a contrarian??

I never said that there aren't some things that improve sound quality.  In fact, there are many things that affect it.  Just not speaker connectors assuming they are all of good quality.