[DVV]

Jackstraw, thanks.  The BPT unit was a custom deal but has 3 outlets with seperate transformers and a 4th with just basic filtering (no transformer).

Beez

Beez, what exactly does a "custom deal" mean? I mean, how different is that to what can be purchased regularly?

Sorry for asking, but I have spent 19 years of my life testing PC components for a living. In that time, I even patented some methods how to do, and have written megabytes of text on how it should be done. So you can imagine how (over?)sensitive to that I am.

That DeZorel was a stock unit. Speaking of which, I would love to know the relative prices of the units it was compared to.

Cheers,
DVV

[Beezer]

The unit I have is similiar to the BPT 4, except it only has three 2.5 amp transformers rather than 4.  The fourth outlet is unbalanced for use with a power amp, although I use my UO instead.  It doesn't have any other modifications that I'm know of.  I bought it from BPT after one of their customers decided it wouldn't suffice for thier needs.  The current BPT 4 retails for $999, although I believe it uses updated technology and BPT has raised the prices since the time I bought mine.  You can check out their site at:  www.B-P-T.com.

Yes, the DZ pricing is very favorable and the fact that it can handle the amp load is great.  Add in the extra spent on the UO and I'm aching for the lower priced alternative.  I just need to hear a DZ unit that eliminates this digital-analog contamination, because our audition sample doesn't quite cut it.

Beez

[Hantra]

Beez:

I built a Risch filter as well, and it did the SAME thing to my system!  IT seemed to choke everything, and it got rid of even natural decay that I was used to.  

I use a Quantum Symphony right now, and I am on the list to try the DeZorel, so I'll see how it compares to the Quantum.  

BTW, all . .  I have two dedicated circuits, and I use one for digital and one for analog, so which one should I put on the DeZorel, the digital stuff?

B

[JackStraw]

I built a Risch filter as well, and it did the SAME thing to my system!  IT seemed to choke everything, and it got rid of even natural decay that I was used to.

I did a little digging on that Risch filter a while back, and couldn't find many negative posts about it. So, it's interesting that both of you guys had issues with it. Hey, hit shappens.

Here's a silly question... if you're isolating analog and digital, does your DAC plug belong with the analog or the digital?

[Beezer]

Hantra,

I can't see where it would matter.  I'm pretty sure it would isolate the two components plugged into it from anything else on that outlet.  I'm sure Dejan could confirm that.

Jackstraw, DAC is digital.  Or is this a trick question?

Beez

[randytsuch]

Well, I'm waiting  

I just have a DIY balanced power transformer to compare it to.  Can't afford a BPT4 and UO    

Randy

[JackStraw]

Jackstraw, DAC is digital.  Or is this a trick question?

No tricks here, my friend. This was what I figured, but with my Tice Solo I just have 2 outlets on the digital circuit. With a DVD player also, I have to choose. I plugged the DVD into the analog circuit, which is also powering the TV. Ironically, there are 4 analog outlets.

I wonder if these analog and digital outlets are really different. I might e-mail Tice to find out.

[Psychicanimal]

Audiojerry e-mailed me asking if I could help you guys by sharing my experiences w/ different noise control devices.  I have been playing with them since he started a thread in HD about the PowerVar isolation transformer/filter at the beginning of last year.  

I have the following:

(A) Seven smaller isolation transformers ( both toroidal & C-core ) ranging in size from a PowerVar 1.0 to a 1.2 KW ONEAC--plus a 3000W, 220V in/110V out ONEAC CB-2338 (95 lbs).

(B) Three power strips: Radio Shack surge protector/filter ($29.95), PS Audio Juice Bar ($199), Essence A/V Pro w/ integrated power cord ($499).  The last two strip's outlets are wired in parallel.

(C) Highwire Wirewrap tuning device ($25)

(D) Tice A/V Solo ($440)
 
(E) Clear Image T4 by AudioPrism ($2,400)

(F) Power cords: seven Absolute Power Cords, two 8' Tice PC3's, one 10' Tice PC3 Extension cord.  One Absolute and one Tice PC3 have been LN2 cryoed at Jena Labs.

(G) Outlets: three PS Audio Power Ports ($49.95 ea), one 20 amp ACME silver plated, LN2 cryoed ($45).

(H) Bybee filters soldered to the drivers in my Modwright Swans M1 (four filters total).

As you can see, I'm well stocked on goodies.  

Since I was out of work for more than six months last year I have had plenty of time to play with all this stuff.  Deano and Sean of Audiogon have mentored me through this process, as well as the freak from Yugoslavia (Dejan, that is).  Deano is a circuit designer and has a $50K Lamm based near field rig w/ JMlab Micro Utopias.  After trying everything else out there (including Equitech, Vans Evers, Tice, AudioMagic, etc.) he ended up designing and building his own filter.  About Dejan, you know him, of course...

I can see that you guys are getting confused and having a hard time getting your bearings and trying to evaluate results.  This also happened to me, too and Deano showed me how to do it--step by step.  That's why Audiojerry asked me to help.  We've been e-mailing since that time both started w/ filters and he's aware of my progress.  If you guys want me to share what I have learned let me know and I can start a thread or a review on "how to review" or whatever...

 

[JohnR]

If you guys want me to share what I have learned let me know and I can start a thread or a review on "how to review" or whatever...

That would be really cool. Maybe in Critic's Circle? Or here, whatever works for you.

My comments to followup Beez in a minute.

JohnR

[JohnR]

Okey doke. I had a fun visit with Beez and this was my first real chance to "listen to power." All up I thought it was very interesting how much and the kinds of differences I noticed, I did have to stop the "engineer" in me from trying to rationalize and explain what I was hearing more than once  

I'll add to what Beez said, we had about 2 1/2 hours to compare things, and let's face it you can only compare what you have on hand. Also, we didn't attempt to isolate the effects of different power cords either, we tended to use what was convenient. OK. When switching the SACD1000 and the CJ pre between power filters, I too thought the BPT was the most natural sounding. We didn't attempt to figure out if it was because of the DAC of the preamp or both. The Risch filter, well blow me down but it was like Beez sez. I have it back in my system now and don't notice any of that effect, but I'm not comparing side by side with anything. I will try to compare it to non-filtered power soon as I don't want to say I don't like it based on that one session. Also, I have only a transport and DAC on it, as I use a passive pre. I suspect many of these things are system-dependent.

The BPT is more $$$ than the DZ certainly. Also you can run power amps off the DZ but not from the BPT, you have to get a bigger unit. I'm not sure what else is in the BPT, but anyway if I ever "get serious about power" the BPT convinced me that balanced power is worth looking into.

Comparing the UO and the DZ on the Dual Mono Stratos was interesting. I was surprised it made as much difference as it did on a power amp. Again we didn't compare any of the power conditioners to plugging the amp straight into the wall, since the DM Stratos has two power cords... On the Gabriel I liked the DZ more, there was more detail and better imaging... but then... waitaminnit! On the Holly Cole, the DZ made (to my ears) Holly sound a bit sterile, whereas the UO made her voice more... ah... "moist", if you know what I mean. Once we switched back and forth a few times the differences became clear. It was like the difference between solid state and tubes (again, if you know what I mean, don't nobody get offended... ). I would not be at all surprised if many people preferred the crisper clean presentation of the DZ but on that track... well I felt I lost something with the DZ. I'm not sure that, having heard the difference, I would be longterm-happy with the UO either, I guess what I would *really* want is the presentation of the UO with some of the detail of the DZ, both at the same time....

I really wasn't sure what to think when we plugged the UO and the BPT into the DZ. I thought it might have been a bit in between but really don't know.

Well, that's my comments on our listening. Remember, this is what I heard in Beezer's system with a few tracks we had on hand. If you really wanna know you'll have to get on the audition list yourself

I suppose my only regret is that it wasn't possible to compare the power filters against nothing at all. Perhaps next time. Nonetheless it was very interesting and I thank Beezer for letting me come over and spend some time and Jerry for organizing the DZ "tour."

JohnR

[DVV]

Hantra,

I can't see where it would matter.  I'm pretty sure it would isolate the two components plugged into it from anything else on that outlet.  I'm sure Dejan could confirm that.

Jackstraw, DAC is digital.  Or is this a trick question?

Beez

Since it uses a true, full balanced configuration, it filters equally both ways. As it also uses floating technology, no influence can pass on even via the ground.

Therefore, Beezeer, you are quite right in assuming it will both filter and isolate anything connected to it.

In multiple filter units, what you have is an equivalent so several small, single units put in parallel, the idea being to offer yet more islation and better filtering in a reasonably sized case. Thus, an LF-A3 is exactly like putting three LF-A1s in parallel, but smaller in dimensions and of course considerably cheaper, due to less casework.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Actually, it strikes me that Beezer's and JohnR's audition could also be interpeted in a VERY different way - here we have an entry level, relatively cheap unit, running in the big league with the heavies, and making them sweat all the way.

It does what they do in its own way, and offers better power handling than they do (if I got that right).

Cheers,
DVV

[JohnR]

Interpreted differently to what?

[Beezer]

Dejan, a couple points:

1)  I think I made the point that I liked the pricing and the power handling capabilities of the DZ.  

2)  It's fine and dandy to get into proper reviewing techniques, but that wasn't really the deal here.  Audiojerry asked us to post our impressions of the DZ after we auditioned it.  The whole process was far from scientific and never pretended to be.  Perhaps I should have toned down the formatting and not called it a review...

For what it's worth to the price conscious in the crowd, the DZ and UO are in same price range and I couldn't decide which I liked better filtering power to my amp.  I'm not sure if PS Audio is sweating or not!  

Beez

[DVV]

Hi Beez, all,

Dejan, a couple points:

1)  I think I made the point that I liked the pricing and the power handling capabilities of the DZ.  

2)  It's fine and dandy to get into proper reviewing techniques, but that wasn't really the deal here.  Audiojerry asked us to post our impressions of the DZ after we auditioned it.  The whole process was far from scientific and never pretended to be.  Perhaps I should have toned down the formatting and not called it a review...

For what it's worth to the price conscious in the crowd, the DZ and UO are in same price range and I couldn't decide which I liked better filtering power to my amp.  I'm not sure if PS Audio is sweating or not!  

Beez

Hey Beez, that's all right, nobody is knocking you. I asked about the price because quite frankly, I have no idea what those units you mentioned cost, I have never even seen them, and was curios, that's all.

I do think you mixed too many variables all in one go, but hey, that's just my opinion, and as long as you feel OK with it, I'll feel even better.

Cheers,
DVV

[Jay S]

I got a chance to drop by Guan's place and listen to the Audio Reference Senior and the LF-P1 (an entry level DeZoral with a single brick and 2 outlets whose filtration is optimized for use with PCs or TVs).  I also brought over a brand new Bolder Quantum power strip.

Throughout our session, the transport, DAC, and tube pre were connected to the Audio Reference Senior.  The variable was what the Le Amps were plugged into.  We tried:

- Straight into the wall
- Plugged into the LF-P1
- Plugged into the Audio Reference Senior

This will be short, but we heard clear differences between unfiltered power and the entry level DeZoral, and again compared to the Audio Reference Senior.  We heard richer harmonics, tighter bass, lower noise floor, smoother voices, more specific imaging, a more refined top end, and simply more natural presentation.  

My girlfriend was with us and she heard a clear difference.  In fact, she said that I should get an A.R. Senior (not just the entry level model), given that I am not currently using any sort of power filter.  

We also briefly tried the Quantum.  The silver outlets probably need some good break in (this is important with Acme silver outlets, in my experience) but today it wasn't as refined as the DeZoral filters.  It did have tighter bass.

Guan also now has a dedicated power line for his audio system that uses a run of Supra cable direct from his circuit breaker box.  Wow, it really made a difference when we compared plugging in the DeZoral to the dedicated line vs a normal outlet.  I am trying to figure out how to do this in my own place and, more importantly, if my landlord will permit it.

[DVV]

I got a chance to drop by Guan's place and listen to the Audio Reference Senior and the LF-P1 (an entry level DeZoral with a single brick and 2 outlets whose filtration is optimized for use with PCs or TVs).  I also brought over a brand new Bolder Quantum power strip.

Throughout our session, the transport, DAC, and tube pre were connected to the Audio Reference Senior.  The variable was what the Le Amps were plugged into.  We tried:

- Straight into the wall
- Plugged into the LF-P1
- Plugged into the Audio Reference Senior

This will be short, but we heard clear differences between unfiltered power and the entry level DeZoral, and again compared to the Audio Reference Senior.  We heard richer harmonics, tighter bass, lower noise floor, smoother voices, more specific imaging, a more refined top end, and simply more natural presentation.  

My girlfriend was with us and she heard a clear difference.  In fact, she said that I should get an A.R. Senior (not just the entry level model), given that I am not currently using any sort of power filter.  

We also briefly tried the Quantum.  The silver outlets probably need some good break in (this is important with Acme silver outlets, in my experience) but today it wasn't as refined as the DeZoral filters.  It did have tighter bass.

Guan also now has a dedicated power line for his audio system that uses a run of Supra cable direct from his circuit breaker box.  Wow, it really made a difference when we compared plugging in the DeZoral to the dedicated line vs a normal outlet.  I am trying to figure out how to do this in my own place and, more importantly, if my landlord will permit it.

Never mind line filtering just now, Jay, go, no, RUN out and marry that girl. I mean, any girlfriend who says you SHOULD buy audio gear must be worth marrying without any further ado.

Seriously though, thank you for the input Jay. I would suggest you ask Guan to lend you the LF-P1 to take home and give it a whirl in your own audio system - no better way to check it out than that.

Cheers,
DVV

[Jay S]

Never mind line filtering just now, Jay, go, no, RUN out and marry that girl. I mean, any girlfriend who says you SHOULD buy audio gear must be worth marrying without any further ado.

Seriously though, thank you for the input Jay. I would suggest you ask Guan to lend you the LF-P1 to take home and give it a whirl in your own audio system - no better way to check it out than that.

Cheers,
DVV

Dejan,

My girlfriend loved your advice!    

Actually, you and Guan are on the same wavelength.... he so generously lent me the LF-P1 and it is here at home with me now.     But, I regret to say that I have not hooked it up yet   as I had a 4 hour lunch (that involved lots of sangria) with my girlfriend and her friends, after which she wanted me to help her hang up several pictures and assemble shoe racks from Ikea.  You can be sure, though, that I will have that filter hooked up soon!  I will try it with my DAC and, separately, with my tube pre and digital amp.  Right now, all of these components are plugged into the wall (though the dac does have a bybee filter in the power supply).  

Cheers,

- Jay

[DVV]

Never mind line filtering just now, Jay, go, no, RUN out and marry that girl. I mean, any girlfriend who says you SHOULD buy audio gear must be worth marrying without any further ado.

Seriously though, thank you for the input Jay. I would suggest you ask Guan to lend you the LF-P1 to take home and give it a whirl in your own audio system - no better way to check it out than that.

Cheers,
DVV

Dejan,

My girlfriend loved your advice!    

I wonder why?

Actually, you and Guan are on the same wavelength.... he so generously lent me the LF-P1 and it is here at home with me now.     But, I regret to say that I have not hooked it up yet   as I had a 4 hour lunch (that involved lots of sangria) with my girlfriend and her friends, after which she wanted me to help her hang up several pictures and assemble shoe racks from Ikea.  You can be sure, though, that I will have that filter hooked up soon!  I will try it with my DAC and, separately, with my tube pre and digital amp.  Right now, all of these components are plugged into the wall (though the dac does have a bybee filter in the power supply).  

Cheers,

- Jay

No wonder, Guan and I chatted a bit before and after he bought those filters. I sort of mentioned it that he might be called upon to loan one of the two, no great insight, we've all seen it happen enough times. Actually, i think that's a good idea all around, first and foremost because such small favors are all in the general philosophy of music bringing people together.

Anyway, do report when you have gathered some experience. As for the shoe rack, well, that's tit for tat, so don't complain. You just got the green light to spend some fair money, so you have to balance for it.

Anyway, what the heck are you complaining about, Jay? You're in Hong Kong, sitting on that fantastic choice of Chinese restaurants and food, all that lovely sweet and sour pork, with rice noodles, and you complain?

Some people are hard to please.

Cheers,
DVV

[Jay S]

As for the shoe rack, well, that's tit for tat, so don't complain. You just got the green light to spend some fair money, so you have to balance for it.

Anyway, what the heck are you complaining about, Jay? You're in Hong Kong, sitting on that fantastic choice of Chinese restaurants and food, all that lovely sweet and sour pork, with rice noodles, and you complain?

Some people are hard to please.

Cheers,
DVV

Tit for tat is fine - a power filter is worth an evening playing handyman.    

Speaking of Chinese food, if you guys find yourself in HK (or Shanghai or Guangzhou or Beijing) I can certainly recommend some great restaurants.

I haven't had much of a chance to visit Eastern Europe yet (apart from a few days in Prague) but that's on my list of things to accomplish.  Maybe I can start with a power filter!  My girlfriend was amazed that the DeZoral was from Yugoslavia!