Wanted a Turntable for Christmas, ended up with a headache.......

Wayner · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 07:11 pm »

This is suppose to be one hell of a TT, but its over your budget......a bit.

http://hifigem.com/polytable.html

eclubow · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 08:41 pm »

Quote from: DigitalDude on 24 Dec 2015, 10:27 pm

and no table. I want something better than a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon but not looking to spend $2000 either. And, whats with all these tables coming without a dustcover? You have to pay another $250 for that. Right now I am thinking either one of those marked down VPI travelers at Music Direct or a Scout Jr. I would really like to stay below $1000.

Of course, I'll recommend a table I use, the Rega RP6. But you'd have to increase your budget to a bit over $1500 with an Exact 2 cartridge. ( I got a great discount at Music Direct). Regas have great sound and are truly set and forget tables. If you like to fiddle, they're not for you, though you can upgrade. In all the years I've owned Regas, I've had only one issue: the cueing arm had to be replaced after quite a few years, this was on a Rega 25. The RP6 is a different and much better table, IMO. And, BTW, as I posted in this circle, I sold my $12,000 Acustic Raven and bought the Rega. To me, the sound is every bit as good.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 10:02 pm »

There is a great buy on Audiogon for a Clear Audio Concept for $999. It is a steal at that price for a TT that performs way above it's price point. There is also a great deal on a Rega RP-3 for $775

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-clearaudio-concept-turntable-with-record-clamp-2015-12-24-analog-22204-arlington-va

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-rega-rp-3-mint-less-than-20-hours-steal-2015-12-15-analog-58503-bismarck-nd

Wayner · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 11:24 pm »

Neither have VTA adjustment......

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 11:44 pm »

I would be willing to sacrifice VTA for either of those TT's. They both sound excellent and have good reputations. Especially the Clear Audio.

jsaliga · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 Dec 2015, 11:48 pm »

I have owned a Rega P7 and liked it a lot. You don't need VTA adjustment if you are using a Rega cartridge. I used my P7 with a Benz cartridge and didn't need to change the arm height. VTA spacers are available if you want to use a different cartridge. There are also some adjustable VTA spacers available for Regas, like this one from Music Direct:

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-3846-rega-adjustable-arm-height-spacer-for-3-point-arms.apx

Personally I don't think that fixed mount tonearms lend themselves to frequent cartridge swaps. Removable head shell designs generally make the task of changing cartridges a little easier, as does adjustable VTA. But honestly I think this is much less of a concern for someone buying their first turntable.

--Jerome

dmckean · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 01:07 am »

You can adjust the VTA on the Clear Audio Concept, it's just a pain in the ass and is done from the bottom of the table. It looks really well made, I doubt you can do better for $1000.

TKonrad.NOLA · « **Reply #27 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 03:25 am »

Quote from: eclubow on 25 Dec 2015, 08:41 pm

Of course, I'll recommend a table I use, the Rega RP6. But you'd have to increase your budget to a bit over $1500 with an Exact 2 cartridge. ( I got a great discount at Music Direct). Regas have great sound and are truly set and forget tables. If you like to fiddle, they're not for you, though you can upgrade. In all the years I've owned Regas, I've had only one issue: the cueing arm had to be replaced after quite a few years, this was on a Rega 25. The RP6 is a different and much better table, IMO. And, BTW, as I posted in this circle, I sold my $12,000 Acustic Raven and bought the Rega. To me, the sound is every bit as good.

Thanks for this info. I should have mentioned, I am new to turntables and I want to set it and forget it. I don't want to fiddle with anything.

eclubow · « **Reply #28 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 03:34 am »

Quote from: DigitalDude on 26 Dec 2015, 03:25 am

Thanks for this info. I should have mentioned, I am new to turntables and I want to set it and forget it. I don't want to fiddle with anything.

Then forget about VTA. if you want things simple, you don't want to go there. I've been listening to vinyl only for 15 years and never once had to adjust VTA( you can't on a Rega). Read the reviews on the RP6 and see what you think. Don't base your opinion on what I or anyone else tells you. Collect all available info and decide for yourself. I will say, however, VPIs require more work. Definitely not set and forget.

jarcher · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 04:56 am »

I would jump all over that used Clearaudio Concept - and yes, the VTA is adjustable & VERY easy to do - just loosen a set screw in the tonearm base (which is on TOP of the plinth - not the bottom) & move the arm up / down - done it many times. But really you don't have to monkey with any of that - just put the original Concept MM or MC on it and your done w/ the exception of setting the tracking force.

This table will MURDER a VPI traveler (discontinued), Scout and Scout Jr in every respect - build quality, timing, sound quality, etc. I know because I've played both side by side simultaneously (i.e. Scout vs Concept). It wasn't even close.

A new Concept w/ out tonearm is $1400 - the clamp is $125 more. So at $999 you're basically getting it for 35% off new, which is a fair deal.

geowak · « **Reply #30 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 04:51 pm »

I decided to go a different route for a TT. I had wanted an older VPI from a local vintage audio store. But the table was in such great shape the owner decided to keep it. So I will be looking for another. But in the meantime I decided to pick up an older, much less expensive belt driven vintage TT that has been restored. Still waiting for it. Many of the new tables do not look, to me, like they will last 30 or 40 years, unlike many of the used tables that have lasted. I can upgrade a cartridge and see how much I like this budget table THEN decide if I want to spend more money for a much nicer VPI. I am more involved with digital, so getting back into analog is something I don't know if I will like.

If i were to get a budget new table it would be this one.http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP-300F-Fully-Automatic-Turntable

Good luck.

Wayner · « **Reply #31 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 05:07 pm »

I bought one of these and sent it back. There were some issues with it that I did not like. As I recall, the arm doesn't have a lock, or if it did, it was not very good and the possibility of an accident was very high. Not a horrible deck and it might be OK for a first time guy.

'ner

geowak · « **Reply #32 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 26 Dec 2015, 05:07 pm

I bought one of these and sent it back. There were some issues with it that I did not like. As I recall, the arm doesn't have a lock, or if it did, it was not very good and the possibility of an accident was very high. Not a horrible deck and it might be OK for a first time guy.

'ner

That's too bad, but good for the OP that you posted a first hand account. It kinda gets back to my original observation, the new TTs I see just don't look like they will hold up in the long haul. Even at the $1k mark.
The old decks seem better built, and at times better engineered unless one drops well over $1k. How are resale values on new decks? Any good?

Wayner · « **Reply #33 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 05:55 pm »

geowak,

There hardly isn't a day that goes by that I look for a table. It has to have all the features that I want, they also have to work, and it should not cost a month's worth of wages. The list so far, has no entries. I also hunt eBay everyday for a real descent SL1200MK2 that was used by a little old lady on Sundays to listen to gospel music (ha). I will keep looking. The Merrill deck may be on the list, but I haven't really heard it, but it did make Product of the Year by Absolute Sound recently. And I certainly like the Jelco arm on it. I wish it was a DD table tho.

'ner

gab · « **Reply #34 on:** 26 Dec 2015, 06:50 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 26 Dec 2015, 05:55 pm

geowak,

The Merrill deck may be on the list, but I haven't really heard it, but it did make Product of the Year by Absolute Sound recently. And I certainly like the Jelco arm on it. I wish it was a DD table tho.

'ner

I recently purchased a new Merrill Polytable from a fellow ACer. It came with the Jelco 750 arm. I had a local turntable guru set it up for me. I am using an Ortofon Bronze cartridge with it. I am very happy with this setup!

gab

jarcher · « **Reply #35 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 03:08 am »

Personally - for new TTs under $1k I'd get a pro-ject debut carbon (or better yet a Debut Carbon Esprit DC for the marginal additional cost (better platter + convenience of touch speed adjustment). These are actually quite good tables - better I think than people give them credit. The speed (job #1 for a table) is very accurate and and stable - ones I've measured are usually within +/- .1% max deviation (or under 2hz +/-). They are quiet and sound with the carbon fiber arms and 2M red Ortofon carts that come with them quite good right out of the box. All for $399 retail in a range of attractive colors and with a cover, which is honestly a minor miracle. Guess it helps that they made 30,000 of them last year! Just one model production # is more than Clearaudio or VPI produce across all tables all year. There are some times advantages to consistency and value for things that are relatively mass produced (if you can say that even 30k represents "mass produced").

For me, until you spend almost 4 times as much for a Clearaudio Concept you don't get a substantially better sounding table.

I like vintage tables, but have no illusions that any of your modestly priced vintage Duals, Garrards, Thorens and even HW19s ultimately sound better (particularly given condition after 20 years) than even your $399 plastic fantastic Debut Carbons. Not gonna win you any "cool points", but if it's performance your after, they make a strong argument which is hard to ignore. So best to have your cheap vintage TT out for show and your Debut Carbon hidden away below in the cabinet to play the actual music incognito.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #36 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 06:08 am »

I have had the Carbon Debut in my system and my Thorens TD-145 sounded better. I do think that the Carbon Debut sounds good and is well made and can benefit from a much better cartridge than the 2M Red. I think that the 2M Red is way over rated and does not live up to the hype. A friend of mine bought the Carbon Debut and could not stand the 2M Red. He replaced the stylus with the 2M Blue and it sounds much better.

It's too bad the OP is not interested in that Clear Audio Concept. It is a great sounding TT with good build quality. I would love to have one with a Maestro or Virtuoso Cartridge.

Photon46 · « **Reply #37 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm »

Echo HiFi in Portland has one of the Thorens TD-209's for $999, $500 off list. I and a friend at work have bought from them in the past, no problems with cross country shipments. The styling isn't to everyone's taste, but other than that, it seems like a solid value in today's market. There is the dust cover issue and the optional one isn't too functional either. FWIW, I use a similar design "dustcover" with my Acoustic Signature turntable and about all it does is keep dust off the plinth. Seeing that I use a somewhat "sticky to dust" machined carbon Boston Audio Mat 1, that is a help. It isn't any big deal to use an artist's paint brush to sweep dust away from the rest of the turntable every so often.

http://www.echohifi.com/details/7611/Thorens_TD-209

SteveFord · « **Reply #38 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 12:25 pm »

I don't know if Digitaldude is still following this thread but I'd jump on that link Thunderbrick posted.
Why for you tempt me, Thunderbrick??? I already have two turntables, I don't need a third one...

Johnny2Bad · « **Reply #39 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 02:40 pm »

That Clearaudio for $US 1000 is legalized theft, plain and simple.
If you stay in this hobby, one day you will wake up and think to yourself "I can't believe I let that 'table go by."
And then you will kick yourself every time you remind yourself of the day you decided not to buy it.

You can almost always find someone who will set up your turntable and cartridge for a nominal fee ... I would charge about $50 to do one in your home. So having to "fiddle with" the tonearm is a weak excuse, especially if it means you settle for far less sonics at the same money.

Now, the above is just my opinion, but I've been forming those opinions on Audio for 40 years, and many very happy people have paid me for them.

If your budget is lower than the asking price, that's another thing. But I peruse the usual haunts about once a month looking at what is on offer for turntables, and I find plenty of good options for under, and sometimes well under, $US 1000 asking price. I even see some that are re-listed because no-one bit at the Buy-It-Now price.

If I actually found what I consider to be a bargain with above average value, I would never post the details in a public forum for something I was actually considering buying or (more likely) finding for a client or friend to buy.

You do realize these posts show up on the first page of a Google search, right?