Wanted a Turntable for Christmas, ended up with a headache.......

sunnydaze · « **Reply #100 on:** 1 Jan 2016, 10:39 pm »

For ease and effective balancing, I think lead tape is better way to go. If cut so that it exactly ends at each side of headshell, it's gotta be balanced, and won't rotate the arm.

gene9p · « **Reply #101 on:** 1 Jan 2016, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: sunnydaze on 1 Jan 2016, 10:14 pm

I strongly suspect you won't be able to balance them on headshell without skewing azimuth. Unipivots wobble easily.

Your best bet is to somehow locate exact headshell midpoint (side to side, front to back not important), and placing weight there, if possible. If two are used balancing will be easier, place one at each edge.

PS: good luck keeping it in place. Maybe a lil bit of blu tak.

that's just what I did..thanks....very playable now with improvements on the way.

MtnHam · « **Reply #102 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 03:43 am »

WOW! Six pages of responses to the OP (Digital Dude), and only 2 subsequent posts from him. Lots of opinions! I would like to hear more from DD, what he has chosen and how it plays out.

Fortunately for me, my current TT ( a SME 20 with a SME V arm, Koestsu cart, all purchased used) is the result of over 50 years of vinyl experience and pleasure , but I am relatively ignorant about today's best choices for DD within his budget and thus can not offer suggestions.

werd · « **Reply #103 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 03:55 am »

Quote from: gene9p on 1 Jan 2016, 11:02 pm

that's just what I did..thanks....very playable now with improvements on the way.

That's what you get for being a gamer...

nocrapman · « **Reply #104 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 10:43 am »

This thread has been quite an education!

I was bestowed with an incredible collection of LPs from an uncle a few years back who knew of my audio interests. And recently a terminally ill patient of mine brought me a bunch of a his Elvis records (as a parting gift - although he recovered from his cancer will likely live a natural life!).

I was never able to dial in the vintage Dual. And even though I spent money restoring it and on cartridge upgrades - the sound was never impressive compared to my digital collection. My 2 yr old finally made it a toy (and took it apart!). I decided to put off getting a TT for some time. Both kids are now trained to leave MY toys alone. So I have been itching to get back.

Since this thread has veered so off course - might I ask a couple of related/unrelated questions:

1. Is this not a TT in favor any more (Linn LP-12 Sondek). I have heard much about this in the past - https://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-linn-lp-12-sondek-beautiful-rosewood-2015-12-24-analog-22204-arlington-va

2. What are some good options for a phono box? Or is there similarly no consensus on what makes a decent phono stage?

3. Is something like this a good starting point - http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRPBDS?

TKonrad.NOLA · « **Reply #105 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 12:03 pm »

Quote from: MtnHam on 2 Jan 2016, 03:43 am

WOW! Six pages of responses to the OP (Digital Dude), and only 2 subsequent posts from him. Lots of opinions! I would like to hear more from DD, what he has chosen and how it plays out.

Fortunately for me, my current TT ( a SME 20 with a SME V arm, Koestsu cart, all purchased used) is the result of over 50 years of vinyl experience and pleasure , but I am relatively ignorant about today's best choices for DD within his budget and thus can not offer suggestions.

I typed a post but must have gotten busy and never posted it. I contacted the seller of the Clearaudio Concept but he is out of the country. I let him know that I am interested and to contact me when he returns.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #106 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: gene9p on 1 Jan 2016, 11:02 pm

that's just what I did..thanks....very playable now with improvements on the way.

Gene, just looking at the pictures it seems like the cartridge may be out of alignment. It looks like the rear of the cartridge is low, so low that it may be making contact with the record, which would cause the scratchy sound. Additionally the cartridge looks like it's all the way forward in the slots, not what I would guess is optimal alignment, but then I haven't mounted a Rega cart on a JWM arm either. Just making some suggestions.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #107 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 07:45 pm »

You can see a low riding cart from the pic?! I surely can't.

If it is low, and arm is parallel (or close) to record surface, then the suspension is busted.

And pic on post #98 shows that mounting screws are centered in the headshell slot. For most carts this typically indicates that overhang is at least quite close to correct, assuming mount distance is accurate.

gene9p · « **Reply #108 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 09:16 pm »

The Rega cartridge is very small...the stylus is on the dot on the supplied protractor..everything is lined up where it should be...yes gotta watch the lead wires low hanging onto lp surface.....the biggest problem is of course the size and weight which is ideal for a Rega table but with the large platter it is near impossible to line up arm height as even in it's lowest setting the stylus wants to touch the lp with the arm lift raised. It would probably be ok with a lower platter like on a scout or scout JR. I have been devoting a ton of time and different scenarios but since it is quite a mismatch there is no perfect set up. Just this one which works for now but that will be changing this week as stores open and re-reinforcements are on the way..lol...It has been like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

appreciate all the great input

sunnydaze · « **Reply #109 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 01:47 am »

Something doesn't stack up.........

I assume the arm and table are sold as a package. Correct? This means the height of the platter is irrelevant. The arm and its mounting base will be built to match the platter such that with an average height cart a parallel arm can be achieved, with plenty of arm height adjustment possible in both directions to accommodate both VTA changes and carts of various heights.

Are you saying that to get the arm level w Rega cart that it must be dropped to its lowest possible level at pivot? This implies that the Rega is super short. Maybe I'm being thick, but this just doesn't seem possible.

Regarding the cue not lifting needle off the record, did you try to raise the entire cue assembly independent of the arm height, like I described earlier?

gene9p · « **Reply #110 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 03:42 am »

Rega cartridges I believe are built only for Rega tables. They are really small and Rega tables are very low with low platters and the arms have a 3 screw headshell to just put in the cartridge and screws and it's done. There is no VTA on Regas. I am sure some have found a way to use them on simpler tables than the Classic 2. With the VTA on the fly assembly , when you loosen the side screws and turn the dial, the entire section goes up and down together as one piece. I don't believe the arm lift raises independently on this table.Perhaps a person with VPI tables experience could find a solution to make the cartridge match up like the instructions say. It is not worth going crazy over as it is going back on my Rega TT anyway and I will test the Classic and work on my skills with the Ortofon Red when it arrives. Once I get that down pat I will order a more higher end one. If I still suck at it, I will call and see if I can get the tech from Lyric Hi Fi to come over. I asked them to set it up and would pay for them to do it obviously, but they requested the entire table be brought in to store as they won't do an in house set up. Go figure....at 65lbs and 2 boxes I couldn't see how that would work to do it there ,pack it again and bring it back home and rebuild it. The owner there can be a pain but I have bought quite a bit there over the years so maybe I can do a little arm twisting if I have to....LOL.

anyway, we learn from our mistakes and I am making a few and learning quite a bit. I am Rega ease of setup spoiled and I think the Classic senses a VPI rookie. I did do some more fine tuning where the arm is pretty parallel a notch or 2 from the bottom and some adjustments with counterweight to get some clearence of lp with arm raised. Sounds pretty good and it will get better.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #111 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 04:16 am »

I understand everything you say about Rega and its design approach, but you miss my point. That is, neither a short Rega cart nor a tall VPI platter should be the source of your setup difficulties. Or if they are, I can't understand why.

You keep saying how tall the VPI platter is compared to Rega. This is irrelevant. VPI platter can be to the ceiling. Correspondingly, the VPI arm will also be to the ceiling. They are built to work together, so the VPI arm is always on the correct plane w the VPI platter. It's hard to imagine that correct clearances can't be obtained with a Rega cart, or any cart for that matter.

I suppose if the Rega cart is extremely short and the VPI arm has almost no vertical travel (to adjust for VTA and differing cart heights) then your difficulties are possible. But I seriously doubt this is the case. I'd think a table / arm combo designed to work together would give sufficient vertical play to properly set up a cart that is even grossly shorter (or taller) than average.

A height mismatch problem can occur with certain arm/table combos that were sold separately and later combined. I've personally experienced it. Can't be remedied unless there is a provision for adjusting mount plate height, or switch is made to different height cartridge that aligns things better. But I'd not expect to encounter it with combos specifically designed to be used together.

I'm unfamiliar with how the VPI arm mounts, and how the (on the fly) VTA adjuster works, but maybe it doesn't give the full range of movement? In other words, maybe you need to manually move the arm into approximate position (ie. parallel to record), then use adjuster to fine tune VTA. Look for a locking screw to manually rough set arm height.

Likewise, having never owned one, I can't say if VPI has an adjustable cueing assembly. But I'd be very surprised if it didn't. I've owned maybe 10 or 12 different arms, and they are all adjustable.

Not trying to be arguementative, just trying to help. I fully admit I'm not specifically familiar with VPI products, and my input is based on my personal experience with tables and arms in general. But I gotta believe there is some adjustment or set screw that you have overlooked. Hopefully those with more VPI experience can chime in with more specific info.

gene9p · « **Reply #112 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 01:26 pm »

I looked and there isn't a screw to adjust height of the tone lift..there is a tiny screw but that would be for removal and I am not going to mess with this. I understand your point and yes this VPI arm is throwing me back on my heels a bit too. Maybe the non VTA on the fly arms by VPI have separate adjustments which is more the norm. This particular arm and assembly sits on a platform that raises and lowers as a whole. You might to take a good look at a picture of one to see what it is like. Appreciate your input and we are on the same page as to why it's proving such a pain. I probably should have ordered a cartridge and had them mount b4 delivery.....but that would have been too smart..LOL

sunnydaze · « **Reply #113 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 01:40 pm »

OK, if this is indeed the case it sounds like the arm has a narrow range of cartridge heights that it will work with. I'd check with VPI to get that range, and then be sure to buy a cart within the range.

I have a buddy with a VPI arm. I don't recall the exact model, but I'm pretty sure it has the calibrated "on the fly" VTA. So it probably works and sets up the same as yours. I'll see if I can get hold of him for some info.

I actually helped him set it up, but it was over a year ago and I can't recall the specifics. I do remember how the entire platform goes up and down with the VTA adjuster. We had no problems setting VTA or with the cueing height. Got all lined up perfectly and quickly. Unfortunately, I can't recall the cartridge. Not a Rega.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #114 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 02:12 pm »

Not sure if it's your arm, but here's a guy with insufficient cue height on his VPI arm, and how to fix it:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vpi-classic-1-cueing-problem

A different VPI arm I think, but look at photo in post #4. The screw to adjust cue cylinder height is clearly visible:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115906.0

I think this is your arm, and it clearly shows that the cue cylinder is adjustable:

http://vpiindustries.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6459

More discussion of cueing problems, and fixes:

http://vpiindustries.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4943

Use Google to search. Tons of stuff online about this, and the VTA issue as well.

gene9p · « **Reply #115 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 06:24 pm »

Some good stuff...
I will have to check it out when I get home

Thanks

MtnHam · « **Reply #116 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: DigitalDude on 2 Jan 2016, 12:03 pm

I typed a post but must have gotten busy and never posted it. I contacted the seller of the Clearaudio Concept but he is out of the country. I let him know that I am interested and to contact me when he returns.

Thanks. I hope it works out. The ability to play and enjoy vinyl is worth the effort. $1 used LP's are readily available, just be sure to include some kind of effective cleaning process.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #117 on:** 6 Jan 2016, 07:08 pm »

Well for my Christmas present I went for the discounted VPI Traveler from Music Direct. It was $999 discounted from $1500 with free shipping. Should be here for the weekend and I'll report back then. It'll be fun to spin vinyl again.

gene9p · « **Reply #118 on:** 7 Jan 2016, 03:41 am »

ahhh..now we're talking....picked up a used Zephyr on Audiogon.....all setups just fall into place now as well as the readings on the digital gauge. I am still awaiting the arrival of the Ortofon Red..thanks USPS for not delivering it as it sits in main office down the road....I guess I will put that on my Rega. A little tweaking here and there and the Classic 2 is really starting to sing. Dare I say Merry Christmas..finally..LOL

sunnydaze · « **Reply #119 on:** 7 Jan 2016, 03:55 pm »

Nice! Glad it's coming together.

I was gonna suggest you buy a used cart -- specifically either a Soundsmith or a Dyna 20x, as they are the known synergies w/ VPI -- but I know many folks are not willing to assume that risk.

Me? I'm a bit risky and I like a good deal. I've bought many used carts and have never gotten burned. Low hours / light use at 40 or 50% of retail is a great way to get SQ beyond what the budget allows. I figure worst case if the stylus / cantilever turn out to be ratty, get a $250 Soundsmith retip (ruby cantilever w/ CLS) and you are as good as new, maybe better than new (assuming internals are OK). If the buy price is low enough, still a good deal even with this xtra expense. I have used a few SS retips and they are excellent!