[TKonrad.NOLA]

and no table.  I want something better than a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon but not looking to spend $2000 either.  And, whats with all these tables coming without a dustcover?  You have to pay another $250 for that.  Right now I am thinking either one of those marked down VPI travelers at Music Direct or a Scout Jr.  I would really like to stay below $1000.

[thunderbrick]

Here's an option. 

http://charleston.craigslist.org/ele/5339890127.html

I'd jump on this in a heartbeat!   

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If you don't go used, what about a Pro-Ject Xpression Carbon or a Rega RP-3.  Both good TT's.  Add a good cartridge and a speed controller and you have got yourself an nice set up.  I was looking at both these TT's at the Needle Doctor here locally last year until I bought an old Thorens TD-145.  The Music Hall Ikura is a little over your budget but it sounds very good and it comes with an Ortofon Blue, a good step up from the Red which is just an OK cartridge for a budget but not good for a $1K TT.

[jsaliga]

You should consider a Pioneer PLX-1000 direct drive turntable for $699.  It will beat the pants off of any turntable selling for $2,000 or less.  Match it up with a Audio Technica AT-OC9/III moving coil cartridge for $499 and you will have yourself one fine vinyl spinning rig.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139394.0

Just my two cents worth.

--Jerome

[*Scotty*]

It would also be worth looking at the Stanton STR8150, basically the same table as the Pioneer PLX-1000, except for its weight. The Stanton STR8150 weighs in at a hefty 36.15 lb, 7.27lbs. more than the Pioneer PLX-1000. There is steel used somewhere in the Staunton's construction. Perhaps the added weight would make a positive contribution to the sound of the table. This might be a candidate for some inexpensive damping mods to the plinth. Price is also nice at low of $554.95 at zZounds.com with free shipping to boot.
Scotty

[Folsom]

Can you adjust VTA on those? I wouldn't buy anything you can't buy a Herbies 4mm mat for...

[dmckean]

Yes, you can even adjust it on the fly. And the 6mm Herbies mat would probably be what you need to get the most out of the VTA adjustment.

[Charles Calkins]

and no table.  I want something better than a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon but not looking to spend $2000 either.  And, whats with all these tables coming without a dustcover?  You have to pay another $250 for that.  Right now I am thinking either one of those marked down VPI travelers at Music Direct or a Scout Jr.  I would really like to stay below $1000.

 Get one from amazon. If you don't like it you have (I think 3 Months)to send it back minus shipping charges.

                                                                         Cheers
                                                                      Charlie

[Letitroll98]

I have exactly the same dilemma.  The Pro-ject Xpression DC looks pretty good, as does the Musical Fidelity Roundtable at the discounted price of $499.  I heard some bad reports about the second iteration of the Traveler, but now looks like they have a third version out that looks pretty sweet if the sale price holds till I decide.  A poster here likes the Pioneer table, Wayner sent his back.  Not much info on which would be a slam dunk choice.

[jsaliga]

Wayner sent his back because it was defective (my words not his).  I liked my Pioneer PLX -1000 enough to buy two of them.  No problems whatsoever with either table.  I also used to own a Technics SL-1210MKII and I think the Pioneer compares very favorably in my experience.  I use my PLX-1000 practically every day and am completely satisfied with it.

I can't comment on the Stanton as I have never heard one and I try to avoid commenting on or recommending anything that I haven't had first-hand experience with.

--Jerome

[Wayner]

I sent it back because the anti-skate did not work well, it could not be aligned in a Lofgren B, it hummed with a Grado Gold, and Pioneer lies about its torque rating.

I actually put it to several tests (the same tests that I put my other tables thru). While I could have certainly "doctored" up my table, for a brand new "state of the art" table, I found that unacceptable, especially at the $700 price. I could have fixed all but one problem, that being the hum. I am currently waiting for the new Technics SL1200MK7 to surface. I'm sure it will cost more, but it will actually achieve all the things that I expect it to (as the SL1200MK2 does now).

I also cherish my record collection and don't really care to have the inner groove ground to bits because of poorly functioning AS.

The term "quality" is a personal thing. By definition it basically is a product that does nothing more, nothing less then what is expected by the consumer. For "me" it did not meet my expectations (and I was very disappointed), as I also was planning on buying 2 of them.

Perhaps if Pioneer decides to fix the things I had issues with, I would reconsider it.

Wayner

[jsaliga]

Like I said, we disagree over whether your issues with the table were defects or design flaws.  You're entitled to your opinion as much as I disagree with most of the points you make, as I think it amounts to little more than FUD.

My Grado hummed like crazy on my Technics table, and that is a pretty well-known issue with Grado cartridges in general and direct drive turntables.  They also don't play well with Rega turntables because of the motor placement on the Regas.  I could not get accurate Baerwald alignment on my PLX-1000 until I bought a slightly longer head shell with longer mounting slots.  Throw in a Herbies Way Better turntable mat and the added expense for the head shell and mat are well worth it compared to used Technics SL-12xx models that are vastly over priced and still need the same tweaks to make them usable in a home audio scenario.

I don't think Pioneer is going to lose any sleep over whether or not you like the PLX-1000.  Sales are brisk from what I have seen and the vast majority of people who buy it seem happy with it.  Naturally, there will always be a number of rabid Technics fans for whom nothing but a Technics will do.  Until the SL-1200MK7 actually materializes it is nothing but vaporware.

--Jerome

[sunnydaze]

FUD?     

Also, Wayner wanted to (but couldn't)  achieve Lofgren B.  Jerome replies that a changed headshell allows him to achieve Baerwald.  Isn't Baerwald equivalent to Lofgren A.......which is different than Lofgren B? 

So I don't understand how Jerome's reply is relevant to Wayner's issue.

[jsaliga]

FUD?     

I also cherish my record collection and don't really care to have the inner groove ground to bits because of poorly functioning AS.

Yes, FUD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

In any event, this will be my last comment here as I really don't want to derail the OP's thread.

--Jerome

[Wayner]

A Baerwald alignment is a Lofgren A alignment (he pretty much copied the work of Lofgren).

I have 2 direct drive Technics (SL1200MK2 and SL-Q2) that Grados do not hum at all. I test the Longhorns on the Q2. My Sony PS-X7 (Frank has my old PS-X5) do not hum with a Grado either. In fact most DDs do not hum with Grados, mostly belt drives, because of the AC synchronous motor which usually have very strong magnetic fields.

[Wayner]

Yes, FUD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

In any event, this will be my last comment here as I really don't want to derail the OP's thread.

--Jerome

You already have derailed it. Just remember, you're the one that brought up my name.

[jsaliga]

No I didn't.  Someone else did.  Later.

--Jerome

[sunnydaze]

OP is considering TT options to buy.  Beyond me how an open honest discussion of pros and cons of possible candidates derails his thread.     

But hey, feel free to have an indignant hissy fit.  Take your ball and leave, who cares?

[Wayner]

To the OP, I hate to say it, but there really isn't a trouble free table in this price range unless you go used. A used deck may also have problems due to age, mis-use or neglect. I like to recommend the Technics SL1200MK2 because it does everything a guy could want. Plenty of power on the platter to clean your records with a  brush, adjustable VTA on the fly, an anti-skate mechanism that actually works, you can align the cartridge to any alignment you want (Stevenson, Lofgren A, Lofgren B) with out filing slots or drilling holes in the headshell, and you can basically run any cartridge you would wish (even a Grado) without fear of hum or bad performance. A good used one may cost upwards of $600 (they even come with a nice dust cover), but I would be careful with decks that were used to DJ as they tend to be pretty dinged up (of course some DJs take real good care of their stuff).

The lowly Projects, Music Hall, Clearaudio, Rega all have certain traits to them that to some folks are undesirable traits. Many lack all the features one would expect from a table (like VTA), some are noisy, some have weak motors, almost all hum with certain cartridges. Some are uni-pivots (which I do not like).

If I were to buy a new table today, I would not know which one to buy, and I've been spinning vinyl for 45+ years. Don't feel like your the only one with this problem.

There are 8 1/2 tables in this house: Technics SL1200MK2, Technics SL-Q2, VPI Hw-19jr (another one I would recommend), Empire 598MKII, Sony PS-X7, AR-XA, AR modded (known as ARmod), AR modded (known as ARcom) and an Empire 498 minus a motor and arm.

A used AR can be a can of worms, so can the Empire(s). The VPI is wonderful if you can find one with a nice arm (like the AudioQuest PT series). The Sony can have drive problems (more electronics in a table then I have ever seen). Those are the ones that i have had experiences with.

I'm sure others have their favorites as well that may chime in.

Wayner

[dmckean]

To the OP, I hate to say it, but there really isn't a trouble free table in this price range unless you go used.

This pretty much sums it up.

There used to be some nice tables in the $1300 range but all those tables cost around $2k now. The dollar just doesn't stretch as far as it used to. I personally think that that PLX-1000 is a value because if you do work around it's issues, it far out performs anything else new in it's price range.

There's still a lot of value in the used market, vintage JVC, Pioneer and Kenwood direct drives can be found all the time for under $100 but will need to be serviced some because of their age.