[Guy 13]

Oh, what a surprise....George has once again decided to bring up his headphone amp that he sells...

I sent a PM to two people a few days ago when this thread started getting going to alert them to the fact that this is the only reason George graces us with his presence...he has a headphone amp that he peddles and he attempts to take advantage of an established forum here at Audio Circle for free word of mouth advertising. I told these two people it would only be a matter of time until he brought it up in this thread, just like he does in EVERY other headphone related thread, and here you have evidence of it once again. In my opinion it's disrespectful to those of us who post here simply because of a love of headphones and with no profit motive or agenda.

George has proved time and time and time again that he has an ulterior motive for being here, and I wish that others would support me in requesting his posting privileges be suspended with regard to the Headphone Circle.

Hi ajzepp and all Audio Circle members.
I agree and support your request.
I am sure George is a good guy,
but maybe he should think seriously to be an Industry Participant 

Guy 13

[milford3]

PM sent to George.  I hate to suspend any member but this is getting a little wacky.  Now, back to my Schiit Lyr and Beyer DT 990's.  600 Ohm model of course.

[ajzepp]

PM sent to George.  I hate to suspend any member but this is getting a little wacky.  Now, back to my Schiit Lyr and Beyer DT 990's.  600 Ohm model of course.

What happened to the T1s?? Just giving them the night off? 

[milford3]

Oh, I still have the T1's.  The 990's give me just a better "soundstage."

[ajzepp]

Oh, I still have the T1's.  The 990's give me just a better "soundstage."

LOL, well played sir

[dB Cooper]

I wonder if brawls ever erupt at the "Head-Fi" meets?

[Diamond Dog]

What?? We agree about something?? One of us must not be feeling well 

Oh it's not that bad... Maybe our new groovy love vibe 'll spread to others. 
Keep hope alive, my brothers.

D.D.

[ajzepp]

I wonder if brawls ever erupt at the "Head-Fi" meets?

 

[K.F.]

I got a pair of Sennheiser HD 800.
And when listening to really well recorded music with a deep sound stage,like this one; Carmen Gomes,Thousand Shades of Blue,
track 1,I'm on Fire

http://www.soundliaison.com/products-from-our-studio-showcase-series/1-carmen-gomes-inc

 (it even sounds great just from the playback (mp3?) from the website,the 24/96 is mind blowing,but then you have to buy).
any way I prefer my HD 800 for this recording above my speakers,more 3 dimensional in my opinion.But to be fair I still have to improve my room acoustics.

[milford3]

I got a pair of Sennheiser HD 800.
And when listening to really well recorded music with a deep sound stage,like this one; Carmen Gomes,Thousand Shades of Blue,
track 1,I'm on Fire

http://www.soundliaison.com/products-from-our-studio-showcase-series/1-carmen-gomes-inc

 (it even sounds great just from the playback (mp3?) from the website,the 24/96 is mind blowing,but then you have to buy).
any way I prefer my HD 800 for this recording above my speakers,more 3 dimensional in my opinion.But to be fair I still have to improve my room acoustics.

I listened to this recording with my Grado RS1's.  You are so correct.  Much better soundstage with the headphones over my main speakers.

[Letitroll98]

So got into this late and listened to the op's original crosstalk links.  I couldn't hear any speaker like soundstage as detailed in the diagrams.  Headphones sound like headphones, it's a different experience.  Why would anyone hang onto the thought that headphones can image like speakers in a room?

[95Dyna]

I'm using the Grado PS2000e's with Cardas Clear balanced 4 pin powered by the Bryston BHA-1 and I can report an extra cranial 3D soundstage that is so good I have used the setup to better dial my Focal Sopra 2's into the room. Of course the listening experience is different. Not better or worse, just different. I am a soundstage and imaging junky (not good or bad, just my cup of tea) and both the Grado's and the Sopras are deeply satisfying to me each in their own way.  When this question was posed at the beginning of the thread I thought wow, how are we going to  control the variables (phones, amps, cables, recordings) because if we don't a fight's going to  break out 

[FullRangeMan]

I'm using the Grado PS2000e's with Cardas Clear balanced 4 pin powered by the Bryston BHA-1 and I can report an extra cranial 3D soundstage that is so good I have used the setup to better dial my Focal Sopra 2's into the room. Of course the listening experience is different. Not better or worse, just different. I am a soundstage and imaging junky (not good or bad, just my cup of tea) and both the Grado's and the Sopras are deeply satisfying to me each in their own way.  When this question was posed at the beginning of the thread I thought wow, how are we going to  control the variables (phones, amps, cables, recordings) because if we don't a fight's going to  break out 

My cheap HE400 w/the supplied mini plug also display a extra cranial sound stage, the prob its just 1 metre wide, this dont substitute an loudspeaker ((

[dB Cooper]

They are definitely different listening experiences and people hear/listen differently too... I have the Chesky 'Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (a binaural recording) and the 'soundstage' on the front/back demo tracks is very wide, sounding far out from my ear, and there is some differentiation between front and back but it sounds like the two peple speaking are standing a few feet to my side. one just slightly in front of my ear axis, one just slightly behind, almost shoulder-to-shoulder. I don't know if this is how it sounds or if there is some oddity about how I perceive a stereo image. But even within the context of a headphone 'image' different headphones vary in how distinctly they locate instruments (I will have more to say about this when I do my Amiron review).

[dB Cooper]

Slightly off topic, but to Dale's point, many early stereo recordings have extraordinary soundstaging (the ones that didn't deliberately go for the 'ping-pong' stereo effect, anyway). I attribute this to the simple miking arrangements that were the norm then.

I understand the beefs about headphone soundstaging (saw it referred to as 'headstaging' by one Head-fi person) but for me, really good headphones are much more accessible economically (probably about a 25:1 ratio in 'fi' per dollar) and outperform all but extremely expensive speakers in pretty much any other characteristic you could name. No crossover anomalies, no room acoustic or placement issues due to no room effects, nobody wanting you to turn it down, lower distortion levels... they work for me.

[FullRangeMan]

(saw it referred to as 'headstaging' by one Head-fi person)
This is a wrong denomination, unless it refers to the small soundstage of an IEM.

HP manufacturers stm ignore the size of the sound stage their products offer and make no effort to increase it other than the angled pads.

[95Dyna]

My cheap HE400 w/the supplied mini plug also display a extra cranial sound stage, the prob its just 1 metre wide, this dont substitute an loudspeaker ((

Good for you! Glad to hear your head is less than a meter wide 

[dB Cooper]

(saw it referred to as 'headstaging' by one Head-fi person)
This is a wrong denomination, unless it refers to the small soundstage of an IEM.

I suppose the term refers to the fact that headphones don't exactly have 'soundstage' in the way that term is generally used to describe speaker-based systems (a symphony orchestra isn't represented fully by a speaker based setup either,; just a different kind of 'wrong'.)

HP manufacturers stm ignore the size of the sound stage their products offer and make no effort to increase it other than the angled pads.

I'm sure they're doing what they can and are open to suggestions. Have any?

[FullRangeMan]

I suppose the term refers to the fact that headphones don't exactly have 'soundstage'

This make sense, they are quite small imo.

I'm sure they're doing what they can and are open to suggestions. Have any?

I dont see any effort so far, just hyped prices.
I already said my suggestion in other thread:
The only way to enlarge soundstage in dynamic HPs is 10cm diameter cone drivers or larger, the bigger the best.

[Letitroll98]

I remember this thread from back in 2013 because I was just getting in to high end headphones back then.  I think the answer is quite clear and universal, something almost unheard of in hifi, headphones can be very enjoyable but don't compare in soundstaging to a set of good speakers.  Thus the term "headstage" is quite appropriate, very descriptive and accurate of the headphone listening experience.  It doesn't denigrate in any way and identifies as something different.