[Danny Richie]

Just looking for some feedback here guys.

Please point your fellow VMPS 626R owners this way and ask them to respond.

A local guy ordered a pair of the 626R's and was not real happy with how they sounded.

He brought them by and we listened to them and I took lots of measurements of them.

I won't post any evaluations as I do not want to start a flame war, but I am very confident that I can make these speakers multitudes better than the pair that came in here.

Looks like I may gut these things and design a new crossover that will omit a lot of problems and short comings. Again I don't want to get into specifics or cause a problem. I would rather offer a solution.

I know that there are likely a lot of owners of this speaker out there. Would you guys be interested in an upgrade? And a reasonably priced upgrade?

Since I don't see most VMPS owners as do it yourself hobbyist and I don't know how many people would be interested in buying the parts needed for the upgrade to then have to assemble them. How about a completed network that only required connecting the drivers and mounting the crossover?

Again I am just curious as to who might be interested right now.

I am not going to post the measured responses at this time, as it could be viewed as embarrassing. If this is information that you think you need to know I would rather e-mail it.

I will answer specific questions if all is kept professional and informative, not personal or combative.

[azryan]

Would you be able to say what version of the 626's were?

Did it have the FST ribbon super tweeter? Did it have any of VMPS's own cap upgrades?

How do these VMPS variables effect your x-over?

Feel free to ignore these questions if you feel it'll cause any trouble. I don't want to cause any.

[Danny Richie]

Feel free to ignore these questions if you feel it'll cause any trouble. I don't want to cause any.

I don't want to cause any either, but will answer direct technical questions. Just don't ask me how they sounded or something or you will get no comment.

Would you be able to say what version of the 626's were?

I am not real familiar with all their models. I am sure they are 626R's, but beyond that I don't know.

Did it have the FST ribbon super tweeter?

I don't know what FST is but it looks to me like an Aurum Cantus 60mm ribbon. I am pretty sure about this as I have them in stock.

I believe you can purchase them direct from Andre at E-Speakers for a good price ($79.99 each).

http://www.e-speakers.com/products/ac-ribbons.html

Did it have any of VMPS's own cap upgrades?

I don't know what upgrades they offer but from looking at what's inside I would have to say no, since everything in there is the absolute cheapest of their kind that you can find anywhere.

How do these VMPS variables effect your x-over?

I am not sure I understand the specifics of your question but I see nothing thus far they can't be fixed.

In response to everyone else:

I have a lot of people right now asking me for more information and to see our measurements.

Hang tight folks.

I am not going to post this stuff here or anywhere else, but to I will try to put all the information together and upload it to our server.

There will be no links to it on our site but if you e-mail or MP me asking for the information I will provide you with a URL.

[John B]

I know that there are likely a lot of owners of this speaker out there. Would you guys be interested in an upgrade? And a reasonably priced upgrade?

Not for love or money  

[tkp]

Danny,

I am interested in:

a)  Pictures of the crossover.
b)  Crossover circuitry.
c)  What can be done to make it better and the cost.
d)  What kinda improvement should one expect with a new/modified crossover.

As long as we all keep the emotion out of this thread and stay with the data, I think this could be a very good thing for current VMPS speakers' owners.

Thanks,
TKP

[mcrespo71]

Not for love or money

John B,

Is this because this upgrade may be offered by GR Research?  If VMPS were offering the same upgrade, would you be making that statement?

Michael

[jackman]

Not for love or money

I don't understand this statement.  If VMPS developed a crossover improvement to my speakers I'd be willing to try it.  I know Danny well enough to know that he wouldn't post something like this if he didn't honestly feel it was accurate.   A comparison between both crossovers sounds like fun.  I would love to see a comparison of both crossover models but it would have to be blind.  

For me, this hobby is about getting the best sound possible for the best price.  If I can improve my system and not spend a lot of money, I'm in!  Especially that "not spend a lot of money" part!

J

[John B]

Is this because this upgrade may be offered by GR Research? If VMPS were offering the same upgrade, would you be making that statement?

Michael,

I am very pleased with the sound of my 626R's.   I had VMPS trick out the speakers from the get go, with the FST tweeter, TRT caps, and soundcoat.  I recently upgraded to the new megawoofer, which is tremendous by the way.  No, my problem with Danny's offer is it's essentially a slimy way to bad mouth another manufacturer's product without actually having to prove his claims of poor performance.  This whole deal reeks of lowball sales tactics by one speaker manufacturer against another.   Brian has been designing quality speakers for 23 years, I trust his experience alot more than I trust someone who want's to take another mans work and clone it into what he thinks is good speaker design.  Sorry, no sale...and in my opinion, really low class behavior from GR-Research.

[vpolineni]

Michael,

I am very pleased with the sound of my 626R's.   I had VMPS trick out the speakers from the get go, with the FST tweeter, TRT caps, and soundcoat.  I recently upgraded to the new megawoofer, which is tremendous by the way.  No, my problem with Danny's offer is it's essentially a slimy way to bad mouth another manufacturer's product without actually having to prove his claims of poor performance.  This whole deal reeks of lowball sales tactics by one speaker manufacturer against another.   Brian  has been designing quality speakers for 23 years, I trust his experience alot more than I trust someone who want's to take another mans work and clone it into what he thinks is good speaker design. Sorry, no sale...and in my opinion, really low class behavior from GR-Research.

John,
  I've been reading your posts here on ac and over at hometheater talk and have come to respect the way you write and even handle controversies over at htt.  this post is totally uncharacteristic of you.  How is danny bad mouthing vmps? He explicitly stated that he did not want to post any evaluations and did not publicly post any measurements.  Is he not entitled to modify a product that is not his? Does that mean Dan Wright can only work on his preamps  that he designed and not modify any other gear?  of course not.  How is Danny taking brian's work and cloning it?  He already has his line of speakers (diluceo, criterion) that are similar and he has not implied that he will rebrand the 626r's.  All he's doing is attempting to redo the crossover-not claiming that he's making the whole thing himself.  If you choose to trust brain rather than danny, then more power to you.  That's your perogative and you're certainly entitled to it.  Let's try to keep this civil and see if someone can benefit from it.

[ooheadsoo]

I don't see Danny offering his own 626 speakers, just an upgrade for VMPS owners.  There's nothing wrong with this.  I've seen other people offer crossover upgrades, and this is generally seen as a good thing, if it actually improves the product, isn't it?

[jgubman]

I am not going to post the measured responses at this time, as it could be viewed as embarrassing.

Uh, yeah, doesn't sound very incendiary to me.

I'm w/ John B, this is very low class behavior, I'm beginning to see why Brian thinks so poorly of you Danny.


By the way, since this is a VMPS thread now in a competetor's forum, VMPS offers numerous crossover upgrades, including Auricaps and TRT capacitor upgrades, silver wiring, Analysis Plus, cabinet upgrades and more. I'd suggest looking in the VMPS forum if anyone wants upgrades to VMPS crossovers.

[Rob Babcock]

Rick Craig offers a similar service and no one has complained.  Of course, he never mentions VMPS by name, but he'll mod/improve the X-over of any speaker you like.  He mentions hotrodding some MA Bronze B2's with very good results, and I've contemplated sending him the MA Bronze 3's I use in my bedroom.

I see no problems whatsoever with Danny's offer to mod the 626r's.  The fact that Big B offers X-over upgrades would seem to bear out the observation that the stock version could use some work.  

If this was posted in BC's forum, the sour grapes brigade might have a point.  But since Danny's using his own Cirle for this, I say just bite your tongue & let the man run his business.  If you don't want his mods, fine- that's free enterprise for you.

[John B]

this post is totally uncharacteristic of you. How is danny bad mouthing vmps? He explicitly stated that he did not want to post any evaluations and did not publicly post any measurements. Is he not entitled to modify a product that is not his? Does that mean Dan Wright can only work on his preamps that he designed and not modify any other gear?

vpolineni,

I'm surprised you would support this kind of tactic by a mfg.   It gives the Industry and our hobby a bad name.  Dan Wright is in the Mod business, that's his slice of the pie.  Danny is in the speaker building business, in very direct competition with VMPS.   So it's ok for Danny to insinuate that Brian makes a poor speaker, but not to post evaluation details or measurements.  Then he talks about gutting it, to make it into something worth listening to.  Please, how is that fair, come on vpolineni, wake up to whats going here.  This stuff is bad business anyway you look at it and I'm surprised people are falling for this obvious con job.

[JohnR]

Speaker measurement and custom crossover work has always been part of Danny's business. It's written right there on his website, if you care to look.

[John B]

I say just bite your tongue & let the man run his business. If you don't want his mods, fine- that's free enterprise for you.

Danny asked the question, I answered.  Michael wanted to know why, I answered.  I'll not be biting any tongue on this one.  It's a cheap hustle, call it free enterprise if you want, to me it's bad business, and I've said my peace about it.  Now I'll bid this thread adieu, and wish all who want this mod the best of luck with it.

[John B]

Speaker measurement and custom crossover work has always been part of Danny's business. It's written right there on his website, if you care to look.

Want him to get off on a technicality hey, everywhere you go...LAWYERS!  

The intent of this thread is clear to anyone with open eyes, and I'll end my contributions to the thread with that.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I can offer another opinion regarding redesigning xovers.

A number of years ago i had a pair of mtm speakers which utilised a focal tdx120 tweeter and 2 x 7inch access (focal subsidiary) mid/bass drivers.  The speakers sounded pretty reasonable but being the type of person i am i wanted them to sound better.

A person who had designed speakers for many years redesigned the xover for me.  Unfortunately he designed the speakers to his taste and they ended up sounding dreadful, as the bass was very slow and just didn't sound right.

I eventually installed the old xover back into the speaker.  This experience really taught me a valuable lesson.  My advice would be to have a listen to the new xover and if you don't like it revert back to the old type.  I am not saying danny won't improve the speakers.

best wishes

rocket

[Rob Babcock]

That's cool John B, just don't be surprised if Danny tells you to bite something!     It's his forum, and I doubt he'll be any more tolerant of badmouthing him than Brian would be if someone tried it there.

I still can't see what you're problem is with Danny's offer.  Brian & Danny practically make a game of it:  B will dis Danny or comment that the BG drivers are crap, Danny will fire back, etc.  What's good for the goose...anyway, they keep things interesting.

I'll be interested to hear the feedback if anyone takes him up on it.

[Danny Richie]

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

First of all speaker modifications is my business and what I have been doing for years.

I have modified too many commercial speakers for me to remember but my guess at this point would be that the number is approaching 100.

A person that owned a pair of these speakers brought them to me. I have modified speakers for him in the passed that he was very pleased with (Sililoquy's).

He had issues with the VMPS speakers. They were valid. He has a good ear.

I will redesign the network for these speakers.

I usually do not offer mods for speakers that people pay me money to work on because I charge them for that engineering time and it is not fair to the paying customer to offer up to everyone else what they have paid me to do for them.

In this case I am doing it as a favor for the local guy and he will only pay for parts and he felt like it would be worth while for others as well.

Should I offer it or should I not?

My posing the question as to whether or not anyone else would be interested in a modification on this speakers was very fruitful.

About 15 people have responded thus far with great interest in one day. Most of them are VMPS customers. Several asked if I would be offering mods to other models that they have.

I believe this answered my question.

It is simple. Interested great! Not interested and happy, that's great too. If you are happy then don't ask to look at the measured responses.

I am sorry if I ruffled feathers in the VMPS camp. I think more feathers may be ruffled for the fear that I may post measurements. If they wanted them posted then they would have posted them themselves wouldn't they?

I already stated that I would not, and I stick by my comment and really do believe that it could be embarrassing. Sorry if that offends.

I have uploaded my initial impressions and measurements. I have not uploaded subject analysis yet. I had planned to but may simply not at all now.

E-mail me at info@gr-research.com for a URL.

After I have completed a redesign of this speaker I will again upload everything for those interested.

[hmen]

It's a regular part of the business  to do mods but the people here on AC that do mods as the main part of their business manage to to get their message across without trashing the products they mod. The whole thing comes off looking more like an unsubtle attact on a competitor's speaker than an announcement that GR is getting into the mod business. Gee, I wonder if GR makes a speaker like the 626R for around the same price?