[Anton K.]

.

if the devil does exist, he is behind organised religion, how else do you explain religious people killing others in the name of god or alah.

Well, actually the Bible says just the same - 1 Cor 10:20 and 2 Cor 11:14.
Also, apostel John had prophesied that soon apostasy would develop, and this is exactly what happened.
The fact that many are killing in the name of god doest not mean God approves them. On the contrary, they are pleasing their master, the Devil, by doing this.
As example, look at the situation with the Iraqi prisoners. Does the fact that some american soldiers tortured the prisoners prove that president Bush planned it and that ALL soldiars of the coalition forces are the same?

[Anton K.]

no WAY!!!  if you don't find jesus, yure gonna rot in hell for eternity!!!  no matter whether yure good or not, or whether or not you believe in god!!!    

i feel sorry for poor righteous bastards who lived & died before jesus was even born - no matter what they did, they were condemned to eternal hellfire & damnation...     it seems god doesn't play fair, doesn't it?    

doug s.

Dear Doug,

If you are serious, may I ask you where did you get a.m. information? Or has this thread become just the place for joking?

Anton

[doug s.]

Well, actually the Bible says just the same - 1 Cor 10:20 and 2 Cor 11:14.
Also, apostel John had prophesied that soon apostasy would develop, and this is exactly what happened.

"soon"?  two thousand years later?  and, besides, who cares about what was written in some two thousand year old fairy tale?  

The fact that many are killing in the name of god doest not mean God approves them. On the contrary, they are pleasing their master, the Devil, by doing this.

how do you know?  cuz someone wrote it is so, in a book?  how do you know which book is correct?

As example, look at the situation with the Iraqi prisoners. Does the fact that some american soldiers tortured the prisoners prove that president Bush planned it and that ALL soldiars of the coalition forces are the same?

if bush hadn't lied about iraq's nuclear capability, its wmd's, its connection w/osama, american soldiers wouldn't even *BE* in iraq.  but, in direct answer to your question, it is now apparant that the bush admnistration *did* in fact condone the types of abuses that americans committed at abu ghraib.  did you listen to attorney general john ashcroft's (non)-testimony yesterday?  disgusting.  i sure *wish* there were hellfire & damnation in an afterlife, sometimes, cuz the entire bush administration would have it to look forward to...

doug s.

[doug s.]

no WAY!!!  if you don't find jesus, yure gonna rot in hell for eternity!!!  no matter whether yure good or not, or whether or not you believe in god!!!    

i feel sorry for poor righteous bastards who lived & died before jesus was even born - no matter what they did, they were condemned to eternal hellfire & damnation...     it seems god doesn't play fair, doesn't it?    

doug s.

Dear Doug,

If you are serious, may I ask you where did you get a.m. information? Or has this thread become just the place for joking?

Anton

Dear Doug,

If you are serious, may I ask you where did you get a.m. information?

where did *you* get *your* info from?  a two thousand year old fairy tale book?

Or has this thread become just the place for joking?

Anton

i'll let you figure this one out yourself.

doug s.

[jfreeman373]

Dougess

The joke will be when we remove all the posts you have ever left in our circle.  All of your time spent posting....right in the trash....no voice....because us right wing fanatical jesus freaks like to knock down freedoms of others.  If we were liberals like you...the freedom to post your thoughts wouldn't have even been an option for you if you had disagreed with us.  And that my *friend* ain't no fairy tale.  You can read it in my book.   It's called "the gospel according to Jason".  You post because WE LET YOU!  Waste your time here no more...or better yet...keep right on going.  It shall be enlightening to "watch your works burn!"

[doug s.]

Dougess

...If we were liberals like you...the freedom to post your thoughts wouldn't have even been an option for you if you had disagreed with us...

you know not of what you speak.  "liberals like you"?  yure really dreaming now!  what does liberal even mean?  where did i ever say i was liberal?  

i also agree with sp pres (and voltaire) regarding defending the rights of persons to state their views, even tho i do not agree with them.

regards,

doug s.

[theborg]

Dougess

The joke will be when we remove all the posts you have ever left in our circle.  All of your time spent posting....right in the trash....no voice.....

You are not the moderator of this circle.

If Bob has concerns about the way this thread is going he's welcome to convey them to the council using the Manufacturer's Forum.

[infiniti driver]

The collective has observed and all members are informed of the direct link.

[jfreeman373]

You are not the moderator of this circle.

I am quite aware that I am not the moderator of this circle.... I am also not the president of the united states or an astronaut.  All obvious statements. I don't believe I ever said or meant to/or infer/ed that ?!(I'm not trying to be a smart***...it just comes out that way sometimes)  

Seriously now,
The message behind my post was to point out how such a spiritual lesson could be learned from such a happening and how the opposing position would be different from the way we view things.

If a person was to see his works burn in life...it would be easier to imagine standing before god on judgment day, accounting for his life, and having all his good works "burn" in the same way for the lack of unbelief.

There are many things in life that can make a person learn a lesson the hard way...but HERE we have only words on a screen to convey our message.  When we are here in the circle our WORDS we account for;  Standing before god... our LIVES we account for.  I think the analogy is plain to see.
Definition   :=is to
audiocircle forum:words  "as" the real universe:our lives.

If Bob has concerns about the way this thread is going he's welcome to convey them to the council using the Manufacturer's Forum.

I don't believe Bob has any negative concerns about the direction that this circle is going....... people are obviously intrigued...look at the views, obviously it fills some niche.  How can people discern differences without contrast?  I believe satanist's have been invited to converse in our circle(and for good reason)......look way back in some of Bob's postings. It's kind of pointless to spray water on the garage when your house is the building that burns.

In the future if you read my postings... please try to dig a little deeper to find my intent rather than what appears to be the simplest interpretation.  I like to make exagerated statements to make my point more clear, analogies to convey a thought more transparently, and absurdity to point out  absurdity.But sometimes I guess I fly right over people's heads. I've been told that I'm not very logical,long winded, and very absurd..... but me and my imaginary *friend* are quite secure in our lack of vanity towards the wisdom in our minds.

James:1

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;  Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.  If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.


"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

I judge and bridle myself by these words of make believe and fairy tale...therfore I need not your moderation from my perspective...but my perspective can never be any one elses perspsective unless they are standing where I am... and looking in the direction that I am looking...but I'm not moving from my post...I've planted my stake and intend to keep standing where I am.  But thank you for doing your job well anyway.

Good evening Borg.

[infiniti driver]

J............

 I understand your point of view quite clear. remember, some people have not the insight to understand between the lines or even with a maginifying glass. Some people have what I call is "the actual vibe" This means on even the abstract, you come across loud and clear. Other people are so "unvibed, or anti resonant" that if you explain the operation of a simple power switch, their next question is "what do you mean by "power switch" and this is no joke. We all have different levels of education, belief, and spiritual insight. It absolutly amazes me that something so simple, so in your face and so litteral, can go over the heads of folks. I also see college professors and even heart specialists in surgery that cannot even turn a screwdriver or use a basic pocket knife to whittle.


My Friend, people are very "non in-tuned" to the harmonic balance of God. The know not what they are doing and are blind to even a hint or i-oda of the possibilities. For that, the frequency spectrum is that of light. It is a small envelope we can see, they only open themselves to a small frequency of harmonics and fundamental balance. Outside that, they are blind.


To get the meaning, one must give up "self" and apply to the higher level. When this is accepted, whole new rules of play and meaning are of order.

They simply want to be 'theirselves" and have no inkling of what it means to live with God standing beside you, or within you. It is posion to them. they feel it is a germ to accept an outside parasite. We know the guilding light is a helper and not a parasite. Human nature dictates that it is unnatural. Actually it is SUPERNATURAL. Unacceptible to logic and reason.

[jfreeman373]

I haven't really thought about the light frequency thing for some time,(iv'e been ito the musical scale lately and it's correlation to the planets in our solar system) since I was really into science/physics study years back...and how it correlates to the things we can not percieve with our senses.  I think I will ponder that for awhile. I wonder if anyone has done an analogous study on that topic.....Oh NO...I see it in my future....INTERNET RESEARCH!

[Anton K.]

Dear Doug S,

-Apostasy did not develope 2000 years later. It already flourished in 3 c.e., when many pagan practices were adopted by Christendom.
Existance of clergy and pope are just one example.
-The Bible does not teach that evildoers will be tormented forever in hell.

I can understand why you do not like organised religion. Believe me, I have the same strong feelings about many religions myself. I can supply you with even more interesting facts.
Did you know that Russian Orthodox Church had blessed Russian nuclear arsenal? They also decided that a soldier who died in Chechen war was worth to become "holy".
Now, I suppose you have some notion about Jesus Christ' attitude towards war and violance? It has not changed. When people misrepresent  Christian teachings, it has no influence on what God's laws really are. Those who cause reproach on God's name will not be left withouf punishment though.
 
The point is, one should not make any conclusions on God judging by the actions of those who just claim to be God followers.

May be my example with US soldiers in Iraq was not so good. Ok, I will adjust it a bit.
Fact: American soldiers killed innocent people in Vietnam (or Russians killed civilians in Chechnya - I mean no offence).
Conclusion: all Americans / Russians are villains.
Does not sound right, does it?

[jfreeman373]

The point is, one should not make any conclusions on God judging by the actions of those who just claim to be God followers.

I agree..... it's kind of like saying..... "I AM  the superindendant of schools, and the right hand of the governor, but.....I haven't passed 2nd grade.  So when I fail at spelling...the whole educational system is a farse and all the teachers are worthless and are sponges of tax payers dollars.

[doug s.]

The point is, one should not make any conclusions on God judging by the actions of those who just claim to be God followers.

I agree..... it's kind of like saying..... "I AM  the superindendant of schools, and the right hand of the governor, but.....I haven't passed 2nd grade.  So when I fail at spelling...the whole educational system is a farse and all the teachers are worthless and are sponges of tax payers dollars.

i agree, too, but i come to a different conclusion about it.  which is why i don't hold the teachings of jesus or his followers, in any higher esteem than the teachings of mohommed, buddha, vishnu, etc...  NO human knows whether or not jesus, or anyone else, is the "true prophet", or whether or not you will go to heaven or hell after you die, or whether there even *is* a heaven or hell.  if *ANYONE* tells me they know, well *I* know they are deluded.

doug s.

[Anton K.]

Well, resurrection of Jesus Christ can actually be proved, and for me this is one of the solid reasons to believe that Bible is THE Book

[John Casler]

Well, resurrection of Jesus Christ can actually be proved, and for me this is one of the solid reasons to believe that Bible is THE Book

Anton,  

What "proof" do you have that substantiates your claim?

I would submit that there is none.

Proof has different "strengths" and there is none from 2000 years ago that is much more than specualtion, based on wishing and hoping.

[Anton K.]

John,

Briefly, some valid points:
1. Very few people deny the existance of Jesus, there is some non-biblical historic evidency for iy.
2. As you know from history, that emperor Neron and others severely persecuted Christians in 1 c.e. If the whole story had been a myth, why suddenly SO MANY people would have been prepared to die for the myth?
-i hope i've got the grammar right!:?
It only starts making sense if indeed what the Bible tells us about the ressurection of Jesus is true - according to the Bible, there were many witnesses to it.
3. Anyway, there was not enough time for myth to develop. It usually takes several centuries, not decades.
4. The Gospels also show an intimate knowledge of Jerusalem prior to its destruction in A.D. 70. The Gospels are full of proper names, dates, cultural details, historical events, and customs and opinions of that time. It proves that they were actually written in 1 c.e.

I won't go into too much details, but I hope that from the above you can see that my, well, actually, Bible's claims are not without basis.

[nathanm]

Jesus probably did rise from the grave.  For one, they put a big boulder over the tomb, right?  Why would they put a boulder over a tomb unless there had been previous problems with zombies?  Secondly, there were no firearms in those days and shooting the zombies in the head was impossible.  Sure you could stab them with a spear or something, but if you got that close they'd grab you and bite into your skull.  Hence, the addition of boulders over tombs.  Even if zombies DO come back from the grave there's no way their deteriorating muscles will be able to move that huge rock.  But Jesus did, and how else could he have done so unless through the power of God?  Amen.

[Anton K.]

Hi there, Nathanm.

Could you stay away from this thread if you have nothing serious to say on the subject?
I think it is not nice at all when you ridicule things which are important (sacred) for others, me in this case.
There are some behavior rules we all should stick to, isn't it?.
A polite person would not say nasty things about other's wife, parents.
C'mon, I know they've taught you that sometime!
 

[doug s.]

Well, resurrection of Jesus Christ can actually be proved, and for me this is one of the solid reasons to believe that Bible is THE Book

no delusions here, eh?

         

doug s.