[lonewolfny42]

I'd say..."back to building speaker's"....by the way Bob, how are mine coming ? Thanks !!

[doug s.]

PS. - Doug,

As long as the constitution of the United States still stands and continues to grant us with the right to free speech, I'm going to continue "offending" people like you so...get used to it.  I support the Nazi's, Greenpeace, PETA and the Democratic Party's right to that same freedom.  I don't support their message but I would fight for their right to "preach" it at the top of their lungs if they so desire.  I even support your right to suggest that I should be deprived of mine.  Fascism should have a voice as well I suppose.  Welcome to America.

i agree 100% with everything you said above - i am also a follower of voltaire...  

well, i take that back.   just because i feel your beliefs cause death & destruction, (besides having no basis in reality), i have *NEVER* suggested you should be deprived of your rights to espouse them.  because, like you & voltaire, i am a strong supporter of free speech.  

the second item i disagree with is that "welcome to america" is somehow equated with free speech.  tho, i agree that it *should* be, unfortunately, the reality is sometimes a tad different.  for example, ever hear of the patriot act?  ever wonder about all the news we're now hearing about iraq having no wmds, or being an emminent nuclear threat, or that there was absolutely no link between iraq & al-qaeda?  all the stuff we're hearing about now was well-known *before* the usa inwaded iraq; i wonder what happened to the "free press" *before* the war?  these are yust a coupla examples about lack of freedom of speech that happen to be relevant to what's going on in the world today...  also kinda ironic, imo, that these policies are being driven by the radical christian right-wing...  

doug s.

btw, where didja ever get the strange notion that i am "scared to death" of  god?  ("HIM"?  why not HER?)  i thought it was all the judeo-christian practitioners that were the ones who were "god fearing"!  

[Marbles]

If you're interested in knowing why God did this or that, why the world is the way it is, what God expects from us, why there's so much suffering in the world and how God can permit it, how to make contact with God or whatever...then I'd be glad to try and give the best answer I can give. ...

I'd like to know the answers to these questions...

[nathanm]

Gee, apparently I'm mad at someone I don't believe exists!  Ponder that one...

You all secretly want to hear some one say something you haven't thought of before, you want some one to "convince" you that God is real and he cares for you. You have a hunger in your hearts that all of your own opinion, as convincing as you make it, cannot satisfy. Deep down, you all really want to know God and know that you're not really alone in this world.

Uh, no.

Well whatever.  See ya later Bob, it's been a pleasure.  In all seriousness, I wouldn't say you are a stereotypical preachy Christian and that's good.  I'd love to chat more but, see I've got this seance with Satan I've gotta get to...

[doug s.]

If you're interested in knowing why God did this or that, why the world is the way it is, what God expects from us, why there's so much suffering in the world and how God can permit it, how to make contact with God or whatever...then I'd be glad to try and give the best answer I can give. ...

I'd like to know the answers to these questions...

wouldn't we all like to know the answers to these questions!      

but, the idea that any of us is gonna get 'em from a human is highly comical!    

regards,

doug s.

[Marbles]

 I'd love to chat more but, see I've got this seance with Satan I've gotta get to...

Don't forget to light lots of candles, eat flesh and drink blood...oh damn, I forgot, that's the Catholic Church that does that  

[Marbles]

If you're interested in knowing why God did this or that, why the world is the way it is, what God expects from us, why there's so much suffering in the world and how God can permit it, how to make contact with God or whatever...then I'd be glad to try and give the best answer I can give. ...

I'd like to know the answers to these questions...

wouldn't we all like to know the answers to these questions!      

but, the idea that any of us is gonna get 'em from a human is highly comical!    
 ...

Well, let him answer before you pass judgement.....

[Aether Audio]

Got just a minute,

lonewolfny42 - cabinets will be back from the veneering vendor this week along with painted fron panels from the painting vendeer.  Crossovers are being assembled as I speak.  Final assembly is quit involved so it may be another couple weeks before we ship.  Hang tight - I refuse to rush through anybody's speakers.  I'd rather give you your money back than let anything go out the door that's not as perfect as I can make it.

Rob Babcock - Thanks for the vote of support.  We may not see eye to eye on religion but I'll bet we agree on one thing:  If you ain't got the guts to stand up for what you believe in then maybe you just better lay down and let yourself be walked on.  As far as I'm concerened, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.  I ain't scared and my stones ain't that big.   My God is though.

Marbles - Asuming that it is a fact that God chose "the foolishness of preaching" (that's right out of the GOOD BOOK) as His intended method of bringing His truth to a lost world...AND I have any understanding whatsoever - go ahead and let 'er rip.  I'll give it my best shot.  

I ain't making no promises though.  I'm basically a blundering idiot in my own understanding and what little I do know has come to me by the grace of God and the revelation of His Holy Spirit to my mind.  The whole subject of how God speaks to us would be interpreted by most of you guys as rather "spooky" so I won't elaborate further right now.  For the sake of argument, let's just pretend that God even speaks to idiots and I'm definately on that list.  

Whatever you ask, I may not be able to get back to you for a while as I've got to honor my commitments to our customers first.  You'd be ticked if you were waiting on your speakers and I was babbling on about God when I should be working on your order.  My postings are what I do in my R&R time and I even have to watch that.  I don't want to end up divorced a second time - and I'm always pushing the envelope.  Thank God I have a wonderful and patient wife.  By the way, thanks a lot for the post.  You have the honor of being the first willing person to honor me by asking a question without cynicism and guile and along the lines that this thread was started for.  God bless you.

g'night all
-Bob

[lonewolfny42]

lonewolfny42 - cabinets will be back from the veneering vendor this week along with painted fron panels from the painting vendeer.  Crossovers are being assembled as I speak.  Final assembly is quit involved so it may be another couple weeks before we ship.  Hang tight - I refuse to rush through anybody's speakers.  I'd rather give you your money back than let anything go out the door that's not as perfect as I can make it.

No problem Bob....take your time, thanks !!

[Smeggy]

Differences in beliefs are minor issues to me, it's fun debating this stuff as long as it doesn't get personal and nasty. I don't think anyones ideas on religeon etc. would taint my thoughts on whether I'd like anyone personally. I've lived all over the world, met countless people of differing faiths and basically, there have been none I've ever taken offense to from that standpoint and none have taken issue with me. People are generally the same the world over, we all have our little cultural foibles but these aren't major issues with interpersonal relationships.

I've lived in Europe, north and central America, middle and far east and the med. I've never had any problems with anyone anywhere based on belief, so I think with sufficient tolerance and acceptence of how others think we can all co-exist quite admirably. It's only when people get intolerant, bigoted and pushy that problems happen. I'm sure I'd like just about everyone here if I were to actually meet them (not that I don't like any of you now   ). The internet and chatgroups like this can become boystrous as that one-on-one thing is missing. We often become more beligerant under these circumstances but for me there is no offense intended, no ridicule and no slamming. I don't know any of you and won't try to pass any kind of judgement based on some silly thread in a chatgroup. We are all much deeper than a few lines on a page would indicate and basing opinions on such superficial info is daft.

This thread shows a only a little insight into one very narrow aspect of each of our personalities. It's also a somewhat distorted version of it, I wouldn't take any of it too seriously for the reasons stated above. I'm signing off this thread for now before I inadvertantly push the wrong buttons. I'm not the greatest writer or orator so much of what I write might not be coming across as I intend.

Peace, and smile, life is just too full of fun stuff to spend time insulting each other  

[jfreeman373]

This thread shows a only a little insight into one very narrow aspect of each of our personalities. It's also a somewhat distorted version of it, I wouldn't take any of it too seriously for the reasons stated above. I'm signing off this thread for now before I inadvertantly push the wrong buttons. I'm not the greatest writer or orator so much of what I write might not be coming across as I intend

I don't know but I think this last post of yours was written very well and sounded sincere, if everyones post's were more like your last one, I think we could all learn alot.  As far as signing off...I wouldn't leave just yet...you might miss something.  From my point of view your tone was peaceful.  I might be wrong though that might not have been your intent  

[doug s.]

Well, let him answer before you pass judgement.....

Well, let him answer before you pass judgement.....

marbles, yure correct; i should certainly give bob a chance.  but, i'm extremely sceptical when it comes to hearing a human being's interpretation of god's will.  in case ya dint know!  

regards,

doug s.

[Marbles]

If you're interested in knowing why God did this or that, why the world is the way it is, what God expects from us, why there's so much suffering in the world and how God can permit it, how to make contact with God or whatever...then I'd be glad to try and give the best answer I can give. ...

I'd like to know the answers to these questions...

Bob, if your waiting for me to ask specific questions, I will, but I was hoping you would answer the ones you brought up first.

[infiniti driver]

Each persons experiences through prayer and their interpetation of God is different. That we seek answers and those who believe are given answers, it is time for you to personally give it a shot...we cannot do that for you.

The bible is simply a road map.

You can lead a horse to water, you cannot make him drink.

The thing to realize is for some, it may take years of diligent seeking to actually find any answers...others, it is like a bolt of lightning. Seek through GOD and ye shall find, seek through another person, you may be led astray.

IT IS YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with GOD...no one can do that for you. All we can do is tell you, their is something mighty worthy about it based on our personal experiences.

Forget religion. Forget hypocrites, it is up to you to see if you can make the connection.

It is written:

"Like a needle in a haystack."

You never know whether you can even have a relationship with God unless you try. I did try and I am thankful for it, many many unimagineable times over.

[doug s.]

...The bible is simply a road map...

which one, the old testament, or the new testament?  why not the iliad and the odyssey?  why not the koran?  why not the pali canon?  why not the veda?  why not crime & punishment, the godfather, no exit, the world according to garp or one hundred years of solitude?  why not i'm ok, you're ok?

roadmaps have specific directions/locations/etc.  they are *not* open to interpretation.  (well, not *good* maps, anyway!   )

the bible is just a story, nothing more.  it is no more a road map then any other book.  it isn't even true that you cannot experience god unless you try.  at least that's what several born-agains that i know have told me - god came directly to them, they were not seeking...  personally, if i were seeking god, i would not restrict myself to just *one* book...

as you say:  

"...Seek through GOD and ye shall find, seek through another person, you may be led astray..."    

the bible was written by *PERSONS*.

doug s.

[infiniti driver]

Totally missed the point.

Ever seen the dead sea scrolls?

Come to Mobile Al in Jan 2005 with a knowledge of Hebrew and read some of them. This was 1400 years before KJV.

Old testiment= for the Jews in first dispensation and into the beginning of the second

Gospels= Jesus

New Testiment= Holy Ghost.

Do not seek the treasure! DO NOT SEEK THE TREASURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a believer, I would not encourage you to now. He will seek you out if he wants to. He did me. I KNOW.

Since it is painfully obvious that to you, this is "all there is", why waste any breath being here? You do not have much time left, as for me, I have an eternity. This I believe and my time is not being wasted..but certainly, you are blowing yours, and fast.
This you can believe.

[doug s.]

Totally missed the point.

Ever seen the dead sea scrolls?

Come to Mobile Al in Jan 2005 with a knowledge of Hebrew and read some of them. This was 1400 years before KJV.

Old testiment= for the Jews in first dispensation and into the beginning of the second

Gospels= Jesus

New Testiment= Holy Ghost.

Do not seek the treasure! DO NOT SEEK THE TREASURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a believer, I would not encourage you to now. He will seek you out if he wants to. He did me. I KNOW.

Since it is painfully obvious that to your this is "all there is", why waste any breath being here? You do not have much time left, as for me, I have an enternity. This I believe and my time is not being wasted..but certainly, you are blowing yours, and fast.
This you can believe.

i saw some of the dead sea scrolls in israel back in '71.  i'm somewhat familiar w/the differences between o.t., n.t., & gospels.  but, one thing in common - all stories written by humans.  i'm not missing anyting here...

as far as god seeking someone out, i find it wery instructive that jesus hasn't come to many who are raised muslims; neither have many christians been enlightened by mohommed.

the belief that you're not wasting yer time, & i am, is totally comical.  this i *KNOW*.  if it makes you feel better thinking you will continue on with your present spirit after you die, well, you go, guy!  while i certainly do not believe in any type of eternity that is based upon the product of man's imagination, i do know that i am a good person, & i have nothing to fear.   and, i am perfectly content doing the best i can in the hear & now.  kinda futile to prepare for the unknown, imo...

as far as wasting my time here, if i can help to end the suffering that has been wrought by organized religion, here & now, on this planet, even in a tiny way, i will continue to try to do so.

peace,

doug s.

[John Casler]

Gospels= Jesus

New Testiment= Holy Ghost.

"the three men I admire most,
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
They caught the last train for the coast, the day the Music died."

Don McLean - American Pie

[infiniti driver]

Selective reading is causing you to miss the point. The log in your eye causes you not to see. You are fixated on "your way" and nothing else.

This statement by you:

as far as wasting my time here, if i can help to end the suffering that has been wrought by organized religion, here & now, on this planet, even in a tiny way, i will continue to try to do so.

And this one by me:

Forget religion. Forget hypocrites, it is up to you to see if you can make the connection.

Seems to share common ground...although the post was rebuttaled without any mention of agreement.

Let us just agree to disagree in the way you live your life, and the way God directs me and leads mine.

Pesonally, I have no problem with that.

It would seem you would like to find some form of divine understanding...although your "mind" is programmed in a way it may never happen. Scholastically, faith is not something that can be taught...simalar to true musicians talant, some have more than others and some have none at all.

[nathanm]

So remember kids, try to make your own personal connection with God, otherwise you are helping to turn America (or whatever country you happen to live in) into a fucking sewer, rotting it out from the inside.  You don't want to be responsible for THAT do you?  Didn't think so.  So get crackin'!