[doug s.]

Hi there, Nathanm.

Could you stay away from this thread if you have nothing serious to say on the subject?
I think it is not nice at all when you ridicule things which are important (sacred) for others, me in this case.
There are some behavior rules we all should stick to, isn't it?.
A polite person would not say nasty things about other's wife, parents.
C'mon, I know they've taught you that sometime!
 

someone who thinks the resurrection of christ can actually be *proved* has the audacity to reprimand someone else because they "have nothing serious to say on the subject"?!?

         

doug s.

[John Casler]

John,

Briefly, some valid points:
1. Very few people deny the existance of Jesus, there is some non-biblical historic evidency for iy.
2. As you know from history, that emperor Neron and others severely persecuted Christians in 1 c.e. If the whole story had been a myth, why suddenly SO MANY people would have been prepared to die for the myth?
-i hope i've got the grammar right!:?
It only starts making sense if indeed what the Bible tells us about the ressurection of Jesus is true - according to the ...

Hi Anton,

While most of your points are correct, they offer no proof.  Persecution of Christian and Jews or whoever have no bearing his claimed resurrection.

And if people willing to die for a releigious icon was proof of anything, the radical islamic sects would be leading the way today.

I think it is relevant that there is again nothing that proves anything about a resurrection.

While some might be in agreement that Jesus "did" in fact live, his being the "son of God" is no more provable than the pyramids being built by visitors from another planet.

I certainly appreciate your views and beliefs, but "proof" you do not have.

[Anton K.]

Doug S,

Ok, "to prove" might not be the best word in this context, my English is not so good.
Let's put it another way: there is evidence that Jesus had indeed lived here on Earth and there is evidence that he has been ressurrected.

From your comments I can see that there is probably no point in arguing with you. And you do not have to waste your energy to convince me.
But who knows, like it has happened with many before, may be some event in your life will make you change your mind, and the idea that man is just highly evolved animal will seem as ridicular to you as it seems to me now.
What event? I do not know. May be you fall in love, have kids, become wiser as you grow old !  Or,  listening to the MUSIC, you' ll think, wow, this was beatiful...and conlcude that if there is a creation, there must always be Creator.
Some day you might see how defficient evolution theory really is.

Ok, its 10 pm here in Tallinn, time to leave the office .

Good night and take care!

[doug s.]

Doug S,

Ok, "to prove" might not be the best word in this context, my English is not so good.
Let's put it another way: there is evidence that Jesus had indeed lived here on Earth and there is evidence that he has been ressurrected.


From your comments I can see that there is probably no point in arguing with you. And you do not have to waste your energy to convince me.
But who knows, like it has happened with many before, may be some event in your life will make you change your mind, and the idea that man is just highly evolved animal will seem as ridicular to you as it seems to me now.
What event? I do not know. May be you fall in love, have kids, become wiser as you grow old ! Or, listening to the MUSIC, you' ll think, wow, this was beatiful...and conlcude that if there is a creation, there must always be Creator.
Some day you might see how defficient evolution theory really is....

anton, you are certainly welcome to believe in christ's resurrection. but, let *me* put it another way.  while there is evidence that Jesus had indeed lived here on Earth, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, that he has been ressurrected.  NONE, NADA, ZILCH.  ZERO!  (yust as there is no evidence whatsoever that jesus' mama was a wirgin.  to the contrary, her giving birth to a child is extreme evidence that she was *NOT* a wirgin!    )

certainly, evolution theory is deficient.  always room for improvement, & we are always learning more & more.  but to use music & music reproduction as an analogy, evolution theory is more like a good hi-end stereo rig, used to come close to the reality of the live event.  creation theory is more like two paper cups, w/a string tied between them, trying to reproduce live speech between two children.  it may be fun, may make for a nice story, but it has no more to do with reality than any other fictional story.  and, like the kids w/the paper cups & string, creationism takes an extremely active imagination!    

regards,

doug s.,

crotchety 48-yr-old, married ~18 years (but not much longer?), w/two fantastic kids...

[nathanm]

Hi there, Nathanm.

Could you stay away from this thread if you have nothing serious to say on the subject?
I think it is not nice at all when you ridicule things which are important (sacred) for others, me in this case.
There are some behavior rules we all should stick to, isn't it?.
A polite person would not say nasty things about other's wife, parents.
C'mon, I know they've taught you that sometime!
 

Well first of all, thanks so much for telling me what I should and should not write.  That always scores big points with me.  Secondly, I don't know what you're referring to, as I was being dead serious.  Last weekend I was touched intimately by Christ.  You might say it was like a bolt of lightning, or perhaps a warm handshake from a kindly old man, but not sweaty though.  Whatever it was, I was given personal knowledge by Jesus, but as he was gifting me he was called away to other important matters and I didn't get it all; hence my question before.  Of course he didn't start right away with the story about his death and ressurrection - I mean if YOU were crucified how often would you want to tell that story?

Although I am not quite sure where I said nasty things about anyone's wife or parents I'm sure you are absolutely correct about it, whatever it was.  I am also certain you are correct about the ridiculing business.  It is true that nobody should be ridiculed, ever.  No matter what stupid things they say, no matter how silly or pointless they may seem, to ridicule them would be an act of cruelty.  That is why I make it my mission to never ridicule anyone about anything at anytime.  People who do that kind of thing are to me, sub-humans.  The worst kind of life form there is.  I take special precautions at all times to avoid ridicule, even unintentionally.  But sometimes I am subject to demonic possession and consequently I might blurt out something about somebody's wife being a fat, toothless, hairy-backed whore; but I assure you this is completely the Devil's fault as at such times I have no control over my own body.  Go with Christ.

Oh yeah, I do agree that Martyrdom=Truth.  Like for example a few years ago a friend of mine was killed in a car crash.  He was really into aliens and conspiracy theories and such.  As a result of his death, all of the things he believed in became true.  Kick ass, aina?

[jfreeman373]

??????????????????

[doug s.]

??????????????????

interesting link, that 373 thing...   ?!?!?

         

doug s.

[Anton K.]

Very funny, Nathanm!

Rest assured that a lot of people will find evolutionist's views stupid too, so I guess we are even!  

What is not so funny though is that there are consequences to all our actions.
And ignoring God is one of such actions.
So I suggest you to chase this demon out of you asap.
BTW, Have you ever read the Bible?

[doug s.]

Here's another "interesting link" for those interested in gods

http://www.godchecker.com/
_________________
John Casler

   that's great, john - you da man!!!

doug s.

[nathanm]

Can you recommend a good exorcist Anton?  This demonic possession thing is really starting to wear on me.

Haven't read the Bible cover to cover, but bits of it.  Very hard tome to get through.  But I did make it through The Silmarillion once, so maybe there's a chance I could tackle the Bible.  But I have no intention of doing so.  Besides, there are so many gods to choose from and with stories far more exciting than the ones in the bible, so it wouldn't be at the top of my book list.  I have a book of Gustav Dore illustrations from bible stories, does that count?   Lemme tell ya, if this guy is correct Eve was quite a voluptuous babe.  God must've really picked a 'prime rib' from Adam!  Way to go God!

[jfreeman373]

??????????????????

interesting link, that 373 thing...   ?!?!?

         

doug s.

You should really check out the whole site.  It's all math,science,....and language.  If you can understand what they are displaying with the calculations, and how reoccuring those numbers are....and really understood the depths of how far it is all intertwhined....I don't see how could there be much doubt.  Especially, if the study of factual things like math and science are of any level of concern for basing your theories about this life you experience.

 This may sound spooky to you...but I had no idea about this number and how it had any significance at all.  It kept poping into my mind and I didn't know why for about a year (and still don't for certain).  I started thinking that maybe it was a date that I was going to die or something... like 03/07/03..... and  that was the day I discovered the number .  About a week before that date I started getting paranoid about it.  So In a last ditch effort to relieve some anxiety I got on the net to see if there was any significance to this number.  I found a couple little things like on a site about prime numbers.  I discovered that 373 was the largest known palandromic prime numer (meaning it is the largest prime number that reads the same forwards and backwords)  I thought that was kind of cool...but what did it mean?  Not a whole lot...then i kept searching cause I had nothing to do that  day and was still a little paranoid...but talking myself down of course.  Then I found the site...on 03/07/03..and let me tell you.....HOLY *&^%$!  I freaked out.  A lot of things began speaking to my mind, and I realized that god was trying to get my attention, ...*again* because after I became a Christian, a few years later I began to drift back into my old life style...and it wasn't good.  That was the THIRD wake up call I had....and thank GOD it wasn't as drastic as the other 2 previous to it.

 Since then...alot of things have changed for me.  I'm not a church going fanatic, or even semi regular attender....but I believe I am one of the most Christ lead people I know.

AT one time in my life I was a satanist   ....later an atheist .  I was my own god.      I'v had more mind sets than cheap suits,I've tried as many as I care to try on.

Now I have one that fits perfectly and has changed me in the core of who I was...to a point I didn't even know myself for a couple years.  It was like getting to know a stranger and becoming good frineds with them and discovering this *stranger* knows all kinds of things and teaches them very well. It didn't happen in church...or a conversation with a preacher or anyone...It only happened when I cried out...all alone.  I had to come to the end of myself.  The end of self is only the beginning.


 
Trust me...it's the truth.

[Eric]

anton, you are certainly welcome to believe in christ's resurrection. but, let *me* put it another way.  while there is evidence that Jesus had indeed lived here on Earth, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, that he has been ressurrected.  NONE, NADA, ZILCH.  ZERO!  (yust as there is no evidence whatsoever that jesus' mama was a wirgin.  to the contrary, her giving birth to a child is extreme evidence that she was *NOT* a wirgin!    )

certainly, evolution theory is deficient.  always room  ...

Actually the statement that there is no proof whatsoever is not accurate. It depends on what type of "proving" you are describing. If you are talking about "scientific" proofs then you are correct. The scientific method is the recreation of results in a controlled environment.

However, in terms of historical proof, there are eyewitness accounts. These are proofs. You may no accept them, but proof does exist historically.

[doug s.]

Actually the statement that there is no proof whatsoever is not accurate. It depends on what type of "proving" you are describing. If you are talking about "scientific" proofs then you are correct. The scientific method is the recreation of results in a controlled environment.

However, in terms of historical proof, there are eyewitness accounts. These are proofs. You may no accept them, but proof does exist historically.

there are no *credible* eyewitness accounts.  NONE.  i could say that jesus came & wisited me last nite - that i saw him w/my wery own eyes, we shook hands, and shared a bottle of sparkling water.  does this make me a credible eyewitness?  what if i had two friends over w/me when it happened, & we all say what happened, are we still credible eyewitnesses?     there is absolutely no credible historical proof that jesus arose from the dead - NONE WHATSOEVER.

doug s.

[infiniti driver]

Doug, you certainly were not there...but I was...believe it or not. The doors were opened to me and I believe.

So there.

I am a credible witness.

Others want to state their stance?? go right ahead...Bob should be with me on this too.

Have mercy on yourself as you know not what you are asking...especially HOW to ask.

Teletransportation is one of the many feats that belief in Jesus can bestowe. Afterall, I am dealing with a supernatural ghost. The more you rebuke Christ, the less your chance of ever seeing will be. You are locking your own doors because you do not believe.

I asked you before to not believe but you keep coming back.

knock knock, you may be answered...but I seriously don't know if he would bother with you. You could be answered though...he can do it.

[doug s.]

Doug, you certainly were not there...but I was...believe it or not. The doors were opened to me and I believe.

So there.

I am a credible witness.

Others want to state their stance?? go right ahead...Bob should be with me on this too.

Have mercy on yourself as you know not what you are asking...especially HOW to ask.

Teletransportation is one of the many feats that belief in Jesus can bestowe. Afterall, I am dealing with a supernatural ghost. The more you rebuke Christ, the less your chance o ...

!!!!HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
         

[Anton K.]

there are no *credible* eyewitness accounts.  NONE.  i could say that jesus came & wisited me last nite - that i saw him w/my wery own eyes, we shook hands, and shared a bottle of sparkling water.  does this make me a credible eyewitness?  what if i had two friends over w/me when it happened, & we all say what happened, are we still credible eyewitnesses?     there is absolutely no credible historical proof that jesus arose from the dead - NONE WHATSOEVER.

doug s.

Doug, at our disposal we have historic documents, which originate from the time just after Jesus' death.
Dd you also question the existance of Platon, Alexander the Great? You did not meet them in peson either. So how can you be sure?

Brgds, Anton

[Anton K.]

Can you recommend a good exorcist Anton?  This demonic possession thing is really starting to wear on me.

Well, change your avatar (for something nicer, of course) and read the Bible cover to cover, and I'll see what I can do.

[doug s.]

Doug, at our disposal we have historic documents, which originate from the time just after Jesus' death.
Dd you also question the existance of Platon, Alexander the Great? You did not meet them in peson either. So how can you be sure?

Brgds, Anton

it is credible to me that jesus *existed*.  

re: plato or alex the great, no one ever said they rose from the dead.

doug s.

[Aether Audio]

Folks,

It's been a while but I'm still here.  Ponder these concepts - and your own finite understanding.  If you dare.

http://www.cheniere.org/misc/interview1991.htm#Scalar%20Detector

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/scalar/1904.htm

http://rugth30.phys.rug.nl/quantummechanics/ab.htm

It appears we are on the threshold of a paradigm shift in physics.  The potential outcome of this boggles the mind.  While it proves nothing directly about the existence of God, it does challange one's vain adherence to their preconceived notions of reality.

In the end, the truth of the matter is that "you just don't know what you don't know."  It is beginning to like like anything is possible - maybe even God's existance.

Happy Thanksgiving and...

Enjoy,
-Bob

[jackman]

If there is no God, how do you explain the Virgin Mary on that grilled cheese sandwich that just sold on Ebay for $30K???

Huh?  How do you explain that?  Oh, and how do you explain the dozens of Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwiches that have recently popped up on Ebay?  I've eaten grilled cheese sandwiches at least once a week for YEARS and have only managed to get one kind've bizarro-Elvis looking creature and a stunning Abe Lincoln (I ate the evidence because I was really hungry, so take my word).  How do you explain that?  The Abe Lincoln was a spitting image of Honest Abe...kind've a front view, not the one commonly seen on, say, a penny.  This was Abe in the later years.  Got to go, I'm getting hungry...for a grilled cheese!

  J

http://search.ebay.com/grilled-cheese_W0QQfromZR8QQsosortorderZ2QQsosortpropertyZ3