[srb]

The Verita compares with Vapor's breeze which includes a RAAL tweeter and very capable 6" driver in a part express cabinet.

Without making any judgement on either speaker's sound or value, the actual facts are that the Vapor Breeze has a "very capable 6" unamed driver and the Selah Verita has a 7" Scanspeak Illuminator driver.
 
Steve

[Rick Craig]

Without making any judgement on either speaker's sound or value, the actual facts are that the Vapor Breeze has a "very capable 6" unamed driver and the Selah Verita has a 7" Scanspeak Illuminator driver.
 
Steve

It's an SB Acoustics woofer and I've used it in some designs. Nice woofer, costs less than 20% of what the Illuminator will set you back.

[shahed]

Why swap out the PMC AML-1's with any of these?  Seems like a sideways step at best to me.   

Is your system too simple for audiophile tastes?  Is the hunter instinct kicking in?

(I'm a big believer in active designs.)

The PMC AML-1s are actually fantastic. In my 18x13ft listening space I can only sit 5/6ft from it. In this nearfield setup, the PMC has some extra sizzle n sparkle in the treble. Some toeing-out and adding a tube preamp has helped a lot. If only I could sit  9/10 feet away, it'd have been perfect. But you guessed it right - the hunter instinct has kicked in. A little laid back speaker would do me good but I'm afraid I may have to lose in other areas what PMC has to offer - and it has plenty of strength in other areas, I mean plenty. I'm a big fan of active design too. My previous speaker NHT XD with dual XDW sub was no slouch either.

[shahed]

unless all the gushing over the wapor cirrus is not hyperbole.  seems quite a few folks at the rmaf show thought them as good or better than $30k-$40k offerings...

Most of us with a limited disposable income are looking for the ultimate giant killer speaker. Even when I'm happy with my current speaker, those gushing feedback over the Cirrus is actually quite a head turner. In fact, on several forums all the impressions I've read - not a single person hasn't gushed over it. With some more digging, I came across Selah Tempesta speakers - has the best of the drivers comparable to Cirrus, a company with solid reputation and with the whole-hearted endorsement from a veteran audiophile john bee, I was very intrigued.

It has been only 4 years that I've been into hi-fi but one valuable lesson I've learned is that price always doesn't equates SQ. Thats why I believe in giant killers.

[shahed]

Some speaker manufacturers just don't want to build cabinets, so they set a discouraging high price for extras.  Its a free country, take it or leave it.

Oh, just to throw another vendor into the ring (the thread title does say "etc." right?), how about Aether Audio?

Yes please! Other vendor suggestion is most welcome. I'm sure there are sleeper speakers that pack a punch and compete well with the big names. Tonian Labs looks interesting indeed. Admittedly I've never heard their name before. I auditioned Timepiece 3.0 ( not the latest incarnation ) and liked AML-1s more. But an excellent speaker.

[Redefy Audio]

i thought the breeze used VIFA NE? 

sorry i thought its aurora. i think the breeze used SB17

cheers
henry

[Rclark]

Never was really all that aware of the cirrus until this thread. Making me want some!

[Vapor Audio]

It's an SB Acoustics woofer and I've used it in some designs. Nice woofer, costs less than 20% of what the Illuminator will set you back.

Not the SB17 ... I'm not a big fan of that driver.  Retail on the woofer I use is more like $140.  I don't keep it a secret what I is, but since you guessed wrong I'll let the guessing continue 

[doug s.]

Not the SB17 ... I'm not a big fan of that driver.  Retail on the woofer I use is more like $140.  I don't keep it a secret what I is, but since you guessed wrong I'll let the guessing continue 

looks a lot like the wavecor WF152B to me...


doug s.

[srb]

Retail on the woofer I use is more like $140.  I don't keep it a secret what I is, but since you guessed wrong I'll let the guessing continue

It seems like you are keeping it a secret.  On the Vapor Audio website the Cirrus specs list both of its drivers, but the Breeze specs only lists its tweeter.  Why not just list it in the specs as well as reveal it here rather than make a guessing game out of it?  At the Breeze's price of $1295 and using the RAAL tweeter, no one can argue that its not a good value, whichever woofer is used.  Prospective buyers just want to know what the specific driver compliment is, that's all.
 
Steve

[doug s.]

It seems like you are keeping it a secret.  On the Vapor Audio website the Cirrus specs list both of its drivers, but the Breeze specs only lists its tweeter.  Why not just list it in the specs as well as reveal it here rather than make a guessing game out of it?  At the Breeze's price of $1295 and using the RAAL tweeter, no one can argue that its not a good value, whichever woofer is used.  Prospective buyers just want to know what the specific driver compliment is, that's all.
 
Steve

search the web; it will take less than a minute to confirm the breeze's driver is as i figured out, above...  it is even listed on their website...

doug s.

[srb]

Yes, although it was only referred to as a Symmetric Motor Drive 6-inch woofer in both the Breeze Description and Specification list, I did later find that it was a Wavecor WF15 when I rested my cursor on the thumbnail of the Breeze baffle in the photo gallery.  Might as well add it to the Specifications list.
 
Steve

[Rick Craig]

Not the SB17 ... I'm not a big fan of that driver.  Retail on the woofer I use is more like $140.  I don't keep it a secret what I is, but since you guessed wrong I'll let the guessing continue 

My fault for not looking close enough - I see it's a Wavecor. Nice driver but still not much more costly to you than the SB woofer.

[Rick Craig]

Yes, although it was only referred to as a Symmetric Motor Drive 6-inch woofer in both the Breeze Description and Specification list, I did later find that it was a Wavecor WF15 when I rested my cursor on the thumbnail of the Breeze baffle in the photo gallery.  Might as well add it to the Specifications list.
 
Steve

Thanks for pointing that out - my error.

[Redefy Audio]

sorry for the wrong lead 

i did saw ryan's comment regarding the nice wavecor drivers.

cheers
henry

[Rick Craig]

I don't consider it to be a personal attack; however, with using terms like "thrown together" I think you should be held more accountable for making  statements like that. Your opinions are based partly on assumptions and I merely pointed out that those assumptions could be wrong. Just because my approach to design is different doesn't mean that the results are inferior; in fact, I do things based on many years of experience and observation of what works well and what doesn't. I only came here to post because I received an email saying that I should respond to set the facts straight.

If you visit my forum here you'll find that I encourage open discussion and differences in opinions. One of the most common complaints I read on other forums is that AC caters to the manufacturers and some of the manufacturer circles are only filled with fanboys. If that's true then everything becomes suspect and of little value if you're looking for an honest opinion.

I agree we should focus on facts and opinions of customers.  I took offense when my opinion was attacked by the owner of one of the companies in question.  I think every business is entitled to their own pricing and process and it is up to the customer to determine whether these prices and practices are justified.  I stand by my opinions and I would be happy to change thpr ovenI proven otherwise.  Rick I would love try a pair of your speakers if there is ever an opportunity, I apologize if you construed any of my posts as a personal attack.

[Rick Craig]

Sorry for the derailing of your thread but I thought it was important to clarify a few things. Obviously Selah, Salk, and Vapor have different approaches to designing and manufacturing speakers but all three of us are striving for the same goal of excellent sound. Enjoy your quest!

Most of us with a limited disposable income are looking for the ultimate giant killer speaker. Even when I'm happy with my current speaker, those gushing feedback over the Cirrus is actually quite a head turner. In fact, on several forums all the impressions I've read - not a single person hasn't gushed over it. With some more digging, I came across Selah Tempesta speakers - has the best of the drivers comparable to Cirrus, a company with solid reputation and with the whole-hearted endorsement from a veteran audiophile john bee, I was very intrigued.

It has been only 4 years that I've been into hi-fi but one valuable lesson I've learned is that price always doesn't equates SQ. Thats why I believe in giant killers.

[Letitroll98]

Okay, first we got derailed into a useless argument about veneer, now we have manufacturers bumping right up against the no promotion policy.  Industry participants are not allowed to promote their products, speculate on how their products compare to others, or price out what what they would build their competition's products for.  Those topics are reserved for their sponsored circles.  I would very much like to avoid sending this topic to Quarantine and I thought we had got back on track without me butting in.  Please gentlemen, the thread has some great stuff about some top of their class speakers, lets keep it going that way.

Rick, you have a PM.

[jackman]

Interesting thread.  I don't blame Rick for chiming in because several people took some unnecessary shots at his products.  I'm not going to take sides but I will say that none of these guys are getting rich in this business.  All three manufacturers have different offerings and I'm sure they all have strengths and weaknesses, depending on your perspective. 

I'm just looking forward to hearing all three at the upcoming AK Fest!  It will be a rare occasion in which people can judge these things based on first-hand experience, versus an internet cat-fight about how much is fair to charge for veneer.   

Not sure if all three guys would be up for it but I think the speakers should be evaluated using the same tracks at the same SPL level.  They will most likely be in separate rooms but it would be fun to hear each of them and provide comments on the level of excellence each was able to achieve.  I've heard Salk speakers several times (but not the Soundscapes) and have heard several of Rick's designs over the years.  Haven't heard Vapor but have read lots of positive comments.  Also, I have no "dog in the race" or personal preference.  Each guy has a solid reputation and they all seem to have a unique approach.  Truth be told, I'm a fan of all three (Vapor based on looks alone) and wish them all well.

Wasting time on a fight that cannot be won is about as unproductive as it gets.  I'd rather spend time listening to speaker designs from the three guys in this thread (and others!) and see how they compare...to each other, competitive models and to my current speakers.  For me, this hobby is about having fun, meeting people with similar interests, learning new things, experiencing new gear/music and taking a break from my hectic and stressful life by listening to music played through a good sounding system.  If this hobby becomes a stressful drag for me, I'll have to find something else like hookers, drinking and gambling.  Audio is cheap in comparison, I imagine!

Cheers,

J

[roscoeiii]

Well put Jack.