[jonbee]

It's not just a veneer job. After veneering, the front edges are routed out and solid hardwood edge inserts are put in place. Then sanding and finishing. This work is contracted out, and is of the highest quality- with veneer choice and stain totally to the customers' request. Price out some custom (one-off) cabinet finishing sometime. I suspect Rick's markup on the cabinet work is not much different than the rest of the system.
There are high end speaker companies that charge much more (several thousand $) for custom finishes that look no better than what Rick offers. In any case, it's the total package price that I care about. And if custom veneers are not important to the customer, you can get the sonic goods in still attractive stock cabinets for a very nice price.
Are there other speakers as good or better for the $? I think that is not the right question to ask. This is not a race. The right question is: how well does the speaker transmit recordings as I think they should sound? If it transmits the recordings enjoyably to you, as you hear the music, without distracting distortions, then it is the perfect speaker- for you.
In all my years I've only experienced this with a handful of systems, and the Tempestas are special in that the size and price is more manageable that others I've heard at this level.
I've owned many very promising candidates over the years that had all the right bells and whistles and had all the buzz but never quite hit the bullseye for me.
I know without doubt there is always something new, and sometimes better, out there. A couple of weeks ago one of my friends got a pair of  $11k Daedalus speakers paired with his $25k Shindos that were breathtaking, that did things I never heard before in any system. Did I want to buy them?  No, because those qualities don't invalidate or change what I experience with the Selahs, which also re-create music as I think it should be.

If the Cirrus floats your boat in your world, great. I'd love to hear them, and I suspect some day I will. I may end up buying a pair just to check them out. If nothing else my Volent VL-2s (another great sounding standmount) could use some competition for my office system.
In any case- have fun- it is not a track meet- it is about the music!

[OzarkTom]

Shahed, if the Gallo C4's are too far out looking for you, another worthy competitor is the Tonian TL-D1 Mk II's. Those are more of a conventional box floorstander. These also have no crossovers, so the vocals, speed and dyanamics will be top notch. You can google these speakers, and you will not find one negative, only raves. These are 95db sensitivity, so a 5 watt amp will work.

A friend of mine uses these. He has owned several sets of Quads, several sets of Magnepans, and many numerous box speakers. Rex told me last month, of all the systems he has ever owned, these Tonians coupled with that $500 Class D amp is the best he has ever had. He  even rates it above his modified stacked Quads with OTL tube amps. That is saying a lot.

When Rex gets back from vacation, I am going to make a trip up there and compare the Gallo's to the Tonians. That ought to be a good race. When you get use to a very good crossoverless loudspeaker, it is so hard to go back to crossovers.

[wilsynet]

Now that we're off the veneer merry-go-round, it is admittedly much less exciting.

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Doc77]

When I ordered my Cirrus, Ryan told me 8-10 weeks.  I ordered them in Carpathian Elm Burl, a veneer that takes a lot work to get right.  At about 5 weeks he called and said the veneer was on and recommended we do it right, which he said was 4-5 coats of pure oil which takes days between coats, then 8-10 coats of a long oil he called it ... Rubbed out each time.  The result was nothing short of breathtaking, and delivered right at 11 weeks.  For what is literally a piece of custom heirllom furniture,  I have NO problem waiting 11 weeks.  Of course the sound is why I bought them, and the Cirrus isn't just great, it's the best I've ever heard at any cost.  They do things I never thought a speaker could do, things I've literally been searching my life for.  Yes they give up a bit of impact in the very lowest bass, but from 40hz up they're perfect ... A crystal clear window into the music.

[wilsynet]

Well, sure, but did the comic make you laugh?

[doug s.]

Well, sure, but did the comic make you laugh?

not only did it make me laugh, bit it made my wife laugh when i read it to her.   

doug s.

[Rick Craig]

I usually stay out of this circle in the interest of ethics but someone pointed me to this thread. I hope to answer questions and clear up some confusion. Points to address:

1) Sensitivity ratings : Many speaker companies pad their numbers, sometimes 3-4db or more. I'm a firm believer in strong business ethics and believe honesty is the best policy. One of the problems is that there's no industry standard and that makes it difficult to compare. I average the 200hz-5K range for my designs which I think is accurate and reliable. I would be happy to run output curves against any other brands so you can compare for yourself.

 Many times I have had customers comment that their previous speaker had a higher rating than our design but our speaker played louder with the same or less power. Here's a link for the NRC in Canada. Compare the manufacturer's spec to how the NRC rated it. Not just sensitivity but also bass extension - another number also often fudged.   http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=18

2) Cabinets : Yes, we build cabinets here as well as sourcing some from China. Would I prefer to source everything here? Sure, but then it wouldn't be possible to put good sound within the reach of some audiophile budgets. We do use the Parts Express cabinets as well as cabinets that come from the same factory making enclosures for Dynaudio and others. There are other companies using the Parts Express cabinets, some much larger and better known than we are. The bottom line is that I wouldn't use them if they didn't have good quality and / or if I thought they had a negative impact on the sound.

3) Standard finishes versus custom veneers : With the curved cabinets (Tempesta, Verita,etc) we offer the standard Parts Express finishes (gloss black,red cherry,maple). The custom cabinets add hardwood trim on all four front edges and your choice of veneer on all sides. We use the base PE cabinet, add our own baffle / trim / veneer / finish, plus magnets and grill. Most veneers are included, even exotics like Pau Ferro (Bolivian Rosewood).

One question here concerned the difference in cost of the standard versus custom cabinets. The main reason is that all of the custom work is done here in the U.S. and it's not cheap to have this done. We also use higher grade veneers and more exact matching of the veneers (just like high end furniture). I have seen cabinets from competitors with very poor veneer selection and layup - and these were from companies with reputations for "great" cabinets.

 Most companies increase the cost of their base model and then lower the cost for upgrades. I chose not to do this because it makes the base models more affordable. I feel this pricing is more fair to everyone as well. Either way I feel both prices are very competitive. You can even save more and build from a kit.

3) Comparing with other speakers : Our prices include shipping to the mainland USA, grills, and no extra fees for PayPal. When shopping around make sure you compare apples to apples and not oranges. For instance, the Verita (paper or aluminum cone) is a better comparison to the Cirrus. Both are 2-ways and the custom Verita is $3,295 with the equivalent Cirrus at $3,895 (maybe more?). Not sure if the grills and shipping are included with the Cirrus.

[roscoeiii]

Thanks for clearing that up Rick.

[Rick Craig]

Personally pinching my pennies towards the Vapor Audio Cirrus with custom stands and the upgraded crossover.  I think Vapor and Selah use the best drivers but without question Vapor really has the cabinet and crossover side of their speakers perfected.  Between the Tempesta and the Cirrus the Revelator vs the Audiotech is a push matchup to be sure, but implementation, (cabinet, crossover) I would have to give to vapor. 

I would stack the Cirrus up against every monitor I have ever heard and most towers.  Personally I couldn't see how a three way, (using great drivers mind you) thrown together in a PE cabinet could hold a candle to the engineering and voicing that went into the Cirrus and its bomb shelter of a cabinet. 

Plus to me a three way design kind of defeats the purpose of a monitor to me.  I want my monitor to have sweet uncomplicated sound with great resolution, imaging, and speed, I would have to let my ears completely rule them out but on paper they don't look close.

Thats just me though so as always, YMMV.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I suggest you get your facts straight next time before posting.

[roscoeiii]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I suggest you get your facts straight next time before posting.

Which facts does sharpsuxx not have straight?

[raddar]

I started reading this thread as I am intrigued by the Selah offerings but I found this on the website:

Verita $3,350 / pair (custom veneers). Where is the information on paper versus Al cones?

3) Comparing with other speakers : Our prices include shipping to the mainland USA, grills, and no extra fees for PayPal. When shopping around make sure you compare apples to apples and not oranges. For instance, the Verita (paper or aluminum cone) is a better comparison to the Cirrus. Both are 2-ways and the custom Verita is $3,295 with the equivalent Cirrus at $3,895 (maybe more?). Not sure if the grills and shipping are included with the Cirrus.
[/quote]

[sharpsuxx]

Rick comparing the Verita to the Cirrus is a little bit of a misrepresentation.  The Verita compares with Vapor's breeze which includes a RAAL tweeter and very capable 6" driver in a part express cabinet.  However, having had an extensive in house demo with the breeze, the PE cabinet that Vapor uses has had its mass more than doubled with modifications to make it their own...When I asked Ryan why the speakers weighed so much he told me that the PE cabinets needed a lot of help to get them anywhere close to being resonance free.  He also told me he would only use the smaller cabinets for any of his designs, the larger ones would take more work to bring up to snuff than it would take to build custom cabinets.

So the breeze retails for 1250 in stock configuration and the verita retails for 2495 how is this price difference justified.

[wilsynet]

Which facts does sharpsuxx not have straight?

Presumably Rick would argue against the following assertions:

1. "I couldn't see how a three way, (using great drivers mind you) thrown together in a PE cabinet could hold a candle to the engineering and voicing that went into the Cirrus and its bomb shelter of a cabinet."

2. "I want my monitor to have sweet uncomplicated sound with great resolution, imaging, and speed, I would have to let my ears completely rule them out but on paper they don't look close."

It is only conjecture that equal engineering and voicing did not go into the Selah offering and that the Selah offering does not also have a sweet, uncomplicated sound with great resolution, imaging and speed.

Pure conjecture though, not facts.

[wilsynet]

I don't think asking a manufacturer to justify their price against another manufacturer is going to be a useful conversation.

[kip_]

I started reading this thread as I am intrigued by the Selah offerings but I found this on the website:

Verita $3,350 / pair (custom veneers). Where is the information on paper versus Al cones?

Check the Selah forum - there's a thread on paper vs. metal cones awhile back

[kip_]

Vapor and Selah clearly take quite different approaches. Can we please stop bashing the companies respective designs' and agree with that? Clearly both of them are world class. Vapor uses imported cabinets for the breeze as well.

[roscoeiii]

I don't think asking a manufacturer to justify their price against another manufacturer is going to be a useful conversation.

+1

[wilsynet]

So the breeze retails for 1250 in stock configuration and the verita retails for 2495 how is this price difference justified.

The Breeze uses a SMD woofer while the Verita uses a Scan-Speak Illuminator.  Or maybe Rick wants to recover more R&D cost more quickly.  Who knows.

Agree with kip.  Both companies create world class offerings.  Let's stop bashing one in favor of the other.

[roscoeiii]

After this thread, hopefully we will have lots of ACers listening hard to each company's speakers at AK Fest and reporting back.

[sharpsuxx]

I agree we should focus on facts and opinions of customers.  I took offense when my opinion was attacked by the owner of one of the companies in question.  I think every business is entitled to their own pricing and process and it is up to the customer to determine whether these prices and practices are justified.  I stand by my opinions and I would be happy to change them if I proven otherwise.  Rick I would love try a pair of your speakers if there is ever an opportunity, I apologize if you construed any of my posts as a personal attack.