Tim Tebow

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jackman

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #40 on: 10 Dec 2011, 02:16 pm »
Mikeinsacramento,

Great article, but I imagine many people around here disagree with the facts presented in the article.  Someone needs to tell the guy who wrote the piece that the Bronco defense is 99% of the reason they are winning these games.  Nevermind Tebow's offensive efficiency and game winning heroics.  It's the vaunted Denver defense that coincindentally learned how to play football the minute Tebow took the helm at QB.  Right? :scratch:

I look forward to watching the Broncos this week and, for the first time in my life, will be pulling for them to beat the Bears.  I'll also be rooting for Tebow to have a good game and continue his progress as a tough, dedicated, talented young quarterback.  I'll especially look forward to the uncomfortable horse-toothed smile on Elway's face after the game, if they win, when the QB he has given almost NO support to racks up another victory. 

I'm especially curious to see how this plays out.  So many "experts" including some on this thread are convinced this guy just can't play in the NFL, yet he keeps winning games.  If the Broncos finish at 10-6 (or 9-7), and win the division, will that be enough for them to admit this kid has a chance to play in this league or will nothing short of a Superbowl victory be enough to convince the HATERS that Tebow can play?  Just wondering.   :roll: 

Jim, my money is on the Broncos but I wouldn't count Oakland out.  Palmer is an excellent QB and it's been fun watching him play.  I thought they were crazy picking him up because they payed a fortune but he's proving his worth so far.  Either way, I don't expect either team to go far in the playoffs, but this is the NFL so you never know.  An injury here, some bad weather there...anything is possible.  This has been a strange year. 

mav52

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #41 on: 10 Dec 2011, 02:47 pm »
The last thing I remembered about playing college football is there is no 'me' in football.  It's a team sport.

fredgarvin

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Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #42 on: 10 Dec 2011, 04:22 pm »
"Tebow gains an average of 2.61 yards every time he touches the ball. Maybe that doesn’t sound like much, but only four quarterbacks have done better this season. In order, they are Rodgers, Drew Brees, Brady and injured Matt Schaub. Tebow is No. 5."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/T...ers-lie-120111

Link doesn't work on my end.  Here's the text.

Mark Kriegel
 
Updated Dec 3, 2011 1:24 PM ET
     
It’s been almost eight weeks since my categorical endorsement of Tim Tebow as Denver’s starting quarterback. The column was adequately argued. At 1-4, the Broncos weren’t going to get any worse.

But my urgings were based mostly on entertainment value. It would be a lot more fun watching Denver flame out with Tebow than with Kyle Orton.

Only now, with the Broncos having a good chance to win their fifth straight, and go 6-1 with Tebow as a starter, have I seen the error of my ways. Actually, it’s not just my error. The entire football establishment is culpable. To dismiss Tebow merely on the basis of an amateurish throwing motion is easy. It’s intuitive. But it’s also wrong.

By now, you know all about Tebow’s flaws. Still, the biggest one might be the methods that have been used to evaluate him. The standard barometers — starting with quarterback rating — just don’t seem to work.

It’s not that Tebow is better than his numbers suggest. Rather, the numbers don’t measure what he does well — and, no, I’m not referring to his “intangibles,” either.

First, for all of his shortcomings as a passer, Tebow doesn’t throw many interceptions (only one this season). Second, conventional passer ratings don’t take into account his considerable ability as a runner. Tebow isn’t like any of his predecessors. He isn’t a “scrambler.” He’s a downhill runner — easily as big as most fullbacks — who runs from the pocket, typically charging into an already spread-out field.

How do you measure that? Being a mere hyperbolist, I called someone who understands these metrics. Sean Lahman is a reporter specializing in databases, and author of The Pro Football Historical Abstract. In his attempt to make Bill James-ian sense of the NFL, Lahman came up with a theory of “Adjusted Yards.” It’s a particularly useful tool when applied to quarterbacks, as it reflects fumbles, sacks, interceptions and rushing yards in addition to the usual passing numbers.

“Over 16 games,” said Lahman, “Tebow projects to 19 touchdowns, three interceptions, 2,061 yards passing and 1,112 yards rushing with five rushing touchdowns.”

That doesn’t make him Johnny Unitas. But it would make him an incredibly efficient quarterback.

“There has never been anything comparable to that,” said Lahman.

The closest thing would be Michael Vick in 2002 (2,900 passing yards, 750 rushing, 16 TDs, eight INTs), or Steve McNair in 1997 (2,665 passing yards, 674 rushing, 14 TDs, 13 INTs). “But folks don’t look at the cost of the interceptions,” Lahman said. “For all Tebow’s limitations as a passer . . . he doesn’t need to throw for 4,000 yards if he’s avoiding turnovers and producing significant yards on the ground.”

In other words, he doesn’t have to be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. It might just be enough to be Tim Tebow.

Remember, there are plenty of quarterbacks — from mediocre ones like Mark Sanchez to gifted specimens like Philip Rivers — who’ve already ruined their teams’ seasons with interceptions. And there are quarterbacks — Earl Morrall and Trent Dilfer come to mind — who’ve won Super Bowls with a lot less talent than Tebow.


In Tebow’s case, the conventional numbers lie. His quarterback rating of 80.5 would rank him 21st in the league. By Lahman’s measure of "Adjusted Yards," however, he’s no worse than ninth.

Still, because the nine games in which Tebow has appeared (six as a starter, three in relief) are an admittedly small sample, Lahman came up with a better way to gauge Tebow’s effectiveness. It’s a spread sheet that ranks quarterbacks by "Adjusted Yards per Touch" (“a touch” being defined as pass and rushing attempts plus sacks).

By that measure, Tebow gains an average of 2.61 yards every time he touches the ball. Maybe that doesn’t sound like much, but only four quarterbacks have done better this season. In order, they are Rodgers, Drew Brees, Brady and injured Matt Schaub. Tebow is No. 5.

If that’s pretty damn good, don’t be so surprised. It’s only what you should expect from a quarterback who’s 5-1 as a starter.

Lahman’s numbers don’t lie. They’re more complete than the quarterback ratings. They’re not intuitively flawed like the eyeball test. (“You see him? I threw better than Tebow in junior high.”) And they don’t depend on my specialties, to wit: hyperbole and sentiment.

After six starts, it’s not yet clear what Tebow represents: an anomaly or, perhaps, a new figure in the evolution of sports’ most interesting position. Only a single quality defies quantification. Call it an intangible if you must. But Denver's starting quarterback is certain to entertain.
Thanks for that factual analysis. It highlights well the numbers which diagnose Tebow's wins. The defense has profited as well, since they aren't on the field nearly as long as they were under Orton. And hey! no political allusions...just, you know, facts. Essentially, Tebow has been a more efficient Trent Dilfer. The Super Bowl QB.

geezer

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Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #43 on: 11 Dec 2011, 01:45 am »
The last thing I remembered about playing college football is there is no 'me' in football.  It's a team sport.

From my perspective, there are quite a lot of "MEs" on pro football teams, and not a few "Is" as well.

jackman

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #44 on: 11 Dec 2011, 02:06 am »
The last thing I remembered about playing college football is there is no 'me' in football.  It's a team sport.

What is this first grade?  You are joking, right?

Football is a team sport but don't kid yourself, individual talent is critically important.   Do you think the Indianapolis Colts' team misses the individual contribution of Payton Manning?  The "team" that was expected to make the playoffs is winless because they lost ONE guy.  Maybe people need to rethink the whole no I in team thing. 

Pull Aaron Rodgers off the Packers and see how many games they win with their backup QB.  Don't get me wong, they would still beat the Bears, with Haney at QB!

cujobob

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Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #45 on: 11 Dec 2011, 04:26 am »
That 'no me in football'/'no I in team' thing isn't referring to talent and matchups, it deals with winning and losing together as a team....spreading credit around...yada yada..

Winning is done as a team, but individual matchups mean the world. My hometown team, the Lions, were awful defensively until they added Suh, Lawrence Jackson, Corey Williams, etc. on the DL and started winning individual matchups. It allowed the defensive backs to cover their man for shorter periods of time which results in better play all around.

BTW, Tebow looked awful vs. the Lions' defensive line. I don't know the circumstances for his wins, but the teams he's beaten aren't exactly elite (sorry Jets fans). The Lions started 5-0 but a huge part of their success was due to playing bad teams.

Tebow has some physical skills, but longterm I'm just not sure he'll be any good. The best thing he's done, statistically, is avoid INTs, but he has fumbled three times.

pansixt

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #46 on: 11 Dec 2011, 05:15 am »
Excitement, Winning, Praise and Thanks are all things that as fans we have
all seen during games and interviews from many players, of all NFL Teams

Excitement, Winning, Praise and Thanks are all things that Tim Tebow contributes to Denver, The Broncos Team and Fans around the NFL.

Will this continue? I hope so. That's Football. One Week at a time. And if the Praise and Thanks players give bothers you, watch something else. The rest of us don't care.

Go Broncos


macrojack

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Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #47 on: 11 Dec 2011, 12:26 pm »
Tebow's Jesus prattle inserted at the beginning of every interview sounds like a second grader reciting the "pledgallegiance". It's just advertising on his part, you know. He's establishing his brand and showing that he is superstitious. It's dumb but it's harmless, and it demonstrates to those with similar handicaps that he is one of them.

You could say that he has a "cult" following. I see long term positives at work here. Go Tim.

drab

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #48 on: 11 Dec 2011, 11:31 pm »
Tim's got the Bears right where he wants 'em. Down  ten with ten to go and just got the first first down of the second half! :lol:

roscoeiii

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #49 on: 11 Dec 2011, 11:32 pm »
Does Tebow have them even more where he wants them after that fumble?

Go Bears!

drab

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #50 on: 11 Dec 2011, 11:34 pm »
Does Tebow have them even more where he wants them after that fumble?

Go Bears!

 :thumb:

drab

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #51 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:02 am »
Tie game! Did anyone have any doubt? :lol:

roscoeiii

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #52 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:05 am »
I am just going to say "Ugh" because everything else I am uttering is a curse.

jackman

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #53 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:19 am »
Will the Bears get Tebowed???

jackman

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #54 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:21 am »
Will the Bears get Tebowed???

Bears just got TEBOWED!!!!!!!

drab

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #55 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:22 am »
Unbelieveable! :o

Freo-1

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #56 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:22 am »

Bears just got TEBOWED!!!!!!!


Good day for us Lions fans...We dodge a bullet, and Denver comes through. 

fredgarvin

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Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #57 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:24 am »
7-1, Tebow does it again!

Cam Newton lost again.

jackman

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #58 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:33 am »
The only one more pissed than Bears' fans is hat horse toothed jackass Elway!

Tebow does it again!  Ha ha ha!

drab

Re: Tim Tebow
« Reply #59 on: 12 Dec 2011, 12:38 am »
At least Elway didn't pull a Jerry Jones this week and stayed in his box. No need for a VP to be on the field.