[zapper7]

jk@home,

If you can hear the fan, ,,, no disrespect....but maybe pro amps are not for you.... they are the best of best for power and great volume listening, I can't hear anything in my room once the system is going but great music and synergy between equipment, ..which is what we are conversing about...right

[OzarkTom]

Everybody is bowing out.
Peter J, are you still in?

Did Freo back out?

[Freo-1]

Yes, for the time being.  I'm going on leave in a week.  I thought it would have come up this way before now.  Maybe I can get in later after I get back.

[Peter J]

Everybody is bowing out.
Peter J, are you still in?

I'm still in.

[Mojo Warrior]

+1!

Regarding the iNuke, I'm pretty sure the fan is much louder, not sure if it can be modded.

There is no local Behringer dealer where I could demo the amp. I suspect that under "normal" home audio conditions that the amp probably does not generate enough heat to require a fan.  The fan in my Crown XLS 2500 is not noticeable when listening to music. I was hoping that Crown would upgrade the XLS line with DSP at CES last month. The DSP modules must be dirt cheap.

If you know the fan is much louder then you also know that it can be modded with a much quieter fan. E-Z, P-Z. That would void the warranty.  I would not be afraid to replace a small fan if it was audible. After all, much of this thread involves modded Crown XLS amps. My interest is primarily in SQ and the "best bang for the buck".

[jk@home]

jk@home,

If you can hear the fan, ,,, no disrespect....but maybe pro amps are not for you.... they are the best of best for power and great volume listening, I can't hear anything in my room once the system is going but great music and synergy between equipment, ..which is what we are conversing about...right

I have two 1500s side by side between my speakers and can not hear the fans either...I was referring to the INuke amps, which I have never heard, but have read on the net that they have very loud fans.

Right now, ALL amps I have running in the house are proamps. The Mackies in the HT have loud fans, but are in a closet. The Yamaha P series, also in a closet, but  I have never heard the fans come on with those, and they are driving box and IB subs. So I'm with you on proamps.

[a.wayne]

Yes, for the time being.  I'm going on leave in a week.  I thought it would have come up this way before now.  Maybe I can get in later after I get back.

Leave , priorities man , priorities , how could you ......

[Mojo Warrior]

As much as I agree with comparing to the other pro audio amps, I believe the majority are looking to replace actual audio amps with less power (of course) with these great pro finds.

That's why I made sure the Cherry was in the line-up as the audiophile grade amp for comparison. It is the not-normal audiophile amp with its great power and quite good sound.

Right now I am making all changes possible here to make the crowns sound better, ....still going on...

If I had a table saw, I would try making a wood enclosure to replace as much metal and plastic as practical.  It would certainly look better if not sound better/different.

Also, it seems that balanced XLR connectors yield superior (much more gain [14dB?] and better noise rejection) sound but I don't have any sources with balanced XLR outputs. But I am considering adding an Oppo BDP-105 which does have balanced XLR outputs.

I am not familiar with the Speakons but they seem to be an industry standard.  I should call an audio professional on Monday and ask if Neutrik connectors are the way to go. It would not be too expensive to have them hook up some Mogami 14 gauge Coax to Neutrik connectors vs replacing the binding posts. Currently, I have the 14g Mogami terminated in some other locking connector (cannot recall the name) that fits banana posts. The 14g Coax was recommended by Eric Alexander of Tekton.

 

[rajacat]

Has anybody used the XLS in an active system? I was wondering whether the extra dac in the system affect the sound quality to the extent that it's audible. It would be nice if the The PureBand™ Crossover System could be bypassed.

[zapper7]

In Bridged mode the XLS does have more power and sounded ever so slightly better, but then I would need 4 of them.

That might be going a little to far.

Anyway I am letting them continue to pile up hours to see if I can get them closer to the Cherry sound.

[Mojo Warrior]

 

Changing the stock binding posts also takes some of that edge away.

Has anyone tried unscrewing the Speakon partially and attaching bare speaker wire through the hole in the binding post? IIRC bare wire is supposed to be the "best sounding" speaker cable connection. Or is that too simple?     

Today I called Performance Audio in SLC and was told, unequivocally that there is no measurable or audible difference in SpeakOn connectors. They are especially beneficial in situations that require frequent changes in speaker cables. In concert halls and recording studios they are commonly employed. Dubious that replacing with binding posts would produce a reproducible "improvement" in SQ.

[SteveFord]

I don't know what Speakon is but I've currently got the Crown hooked up with Kimber 4TC run down through the holes.  Necessity is the mother of invention in this instance.

[jk@home]

I tried the speakons and also bare wire into the binding posts...didn't hear much difference between the two.

On the other hand, from what I can tell so far with the Pomona mod with spades, there is an audible improvement replacing the posts. The highs cleaned up and are smoother, now not as pronounced.

[Tomy2Tone]

On the other hand, from what I can tell so far with the Pomona mod with spades, there is an audible improvement replacing the posts. The highs cleaned up and are smoother, now not as pronounced.

+1

[ljbrandt]

Thank you Odal!  This was exactly the post I was looking for!  It seems you found that little bear p3 works well with the Crown XLS, which is great news since I have one on order!  Are you using the stock tubes on the p3? And also, are you using RCA->XLR cables from the p3 to the xls?  I'm anxious to know what setup worked best for you with the crown and little bear p3 i.e. power cable, input mods, etc.

One thing that bugs me about amps is audible hiss with no music playing through the speakers...how does the 2000 do with the little bear p3?  Is the xls2500 any better in terms of noise floor?

Lastly, how does the p3/crown compare to the p3/3116?!

Been using the Crown XLS 2000 for a little while both as a sub amp as well as with full range. Been very happy so far. Main observation for those who haven't had a chance to try it yet, your pre-amp makes a huge impact on the sound. If it can't deliver the pro level inputs, it sounds like the dynamics takes a hit in full-range (regardless if efficient bookshelves or more hard to drive speakers), and the "punch" sufferes with subwoofers. I'll guess this may differ on system, but if it didn't sound good with gain at 1, it didn't matter if I crank up the gain to the max. Yes - more volume, but "lifeless" sound. Then on the other hand, with proper input, I agree with all the positive reviews in this and other threads. It is a lot of good sound for the money. So if you don't like the sound at first, play around with some different pre-amps (or line level converter boxes, which I haven't tried myself)

I don't have anything fancy to compare with (but the rest of you have already covered this), so this is more for those with more budget-level equipment at home:
CDP or Computer via DAC (without pre-amp) resulted in lifeless sound

Using my old Pioneer Elite AVR pre-outs was neither a hit (but that was expected since it doesn't sound too good by itself either)

Using the DAC/pre-out on a Peachtree Audio Nova cleaned-up the sound and sounded pretty good but thin.

My favorite was when I "stole" the cheap LittleBear P3 tube preamp that I have been using with my TPA3116 amp. It definitely brought out the mids and bass better on the crown - perhaps some tube "distortion" is good Same thing happened on my TPA3116 amp, which was lifeless and thin on the low end until I put in this preamp. As someone else mentioned, tube preamps seems to work really well with class d. This particular preamp has been criticized for the huge gain and sensitive volume control (not to mention it's diy look) when used with consumer level amps, but this is exactly what makes it a great match with the Crowns. I'm sure there are many better preamps out there but for the $50 I paid for the preamp (new) combined with $160 + shipping for a used XLS, I have a really nice sounding system for less than $250!

mjosef - thanks for the input and good comparison. I'm happy with the xls for now, but been eying the used xti market to get some more advanced dsp for sub duty or alternatively to use it as you tested for bi-amping with the xls. Read that the fan is rather noisy. Is it bearable, or do you need to put the xti in a different room?

[ljbrandt]

I don't know what Speakon is but I've currently got the Crown hooked up with Kimber 4TC run down through the holes.  Necessity is the mother of invention in this instance.

Any chance you might post a picture of this? 

[Odal3]

ljbrandt
I haven't had a chance to change anything yet so I'm still using it in stock condition. If you search for 6N3 or the similar magic sound 6N3 +6Z4preamp on the AC forum, you may find some more info on what other people have done. Here's one, but there are some longer as well: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128595.msg1378619#msg1378619

I'm using RCA->RCA, and no hiss. The only thing I may do in the near future is to balance the transformer voltage which seems to be a slightly off.

I have not heard the XLS2500, but based on the comments on this thread, there shouldn't really be any difference between the XLS2000 and the 2500 unless you get into the discussion about clipping, which is probably best not to repeat here so see for example the TRUTH in Audio thread.

Re TPA3116: See post #1131 and #1132

Hope you will enjoy it!

[jk@home]

FYI if anyone is interested. Just took some power readings to see how much juice I am using during idle, with all my 2 channel equipment left on 24/7. That's with two Crown XLS1500s and three Yamaha P3500S amps (used for the subs). Came out to around 158 watts (120 volts x 1.32 amps).

What I found interesting is that the Yamaha pro amps (not class D) actually pulled just a hair less power than the Crowns. .2 amps vs .22 amps. They do advertise that these models are energy efficient. My old A/B amp pulled almost 1.5 amps at idle all by itself.

I'm running the Yamahas off a Juice Goose sequencer, so I could come up with an auto switching control for them. Don't think they need to be on all the time. Originally had the sequencer activated by a Xantech current sensing setup, off the old Aragon amp. Will have to come up with a plan B.

[a.wayne]

3  Yamaha P3500S  ,  a man on a mission .    I'm not sure , i may have missed it, did you compare the Crown to the Yammy's ? 

[jk@home]

No, I haven't compared the two. I had bought the Yammys first, for the two mid bass subs shown below, and IB subs (four AE 15"ers) in the ceiling above, then later tried the Crowns for the KEFs. The Yamahas are more expensive, not sure why (more parts inside?).  They are in the left hand closet behind the QRD, not real easy to get to, thus the sequencer needed. If I had to do it over right now, would probably go all Crown, for cost reasons alone.

BTW, the Yamahas do have a higher "turn on" current surge. If I try to power all three up together, it will trip the 20 amp circuit breaker on the dedicated circuit. Another reason for the Juice Goose. The Crowns don't seem to have this issue.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128954.msg1373878#msg1373878