[doug s.]

I don't think we are learning anything anyway, but I get the gist of what you're saying. I think it has been fair so far. I also think that doug's jab at Ethan was in good taste. Did you see the  attached to it??? Doug is a fair man.

thank you!   

doug s.

[doug s.]

...As such, we have virtually no correlation between measurements and perceived sound. Maybe some day in the future.

ps. Forgot to add that DA, DF, harmonic distortion of capacitors is not clearly measured by sophisticated instruments (polyester, bipolar, and electrolytics are. See "Picking Capacitors", 1980 article by Walter Jung and Richard Marsh as an example.). Yet DA is measured by a high impedance voltmeter.

thank you!   

doug s.

[Quiet Earth]

You're welcome doug. 

Go to Ethan's website, and to the Real Traps (his company) website Acoustics Info page

Thanks sebrof, but I have already poured through many (most?) of those pages and I didn't see any constructive information about choosing equipment for listening to recorded music at home.

[Tyson]

The real myth is that you can EVER get live sound from your crappy little hi-fi system.  Good luck with that.

[Tyson]

OK, that was pretty shitty, my last comment.  So here's something better - Billie Holiday is dead.  If you have a great, great hi-fi system, you might capture a very small percentage of her greatness in your living room.

[Cheerwino]

Audio Myth: A group of interested enthusiasts can have an informative, thoughtful and benevolent discussion and exchange of reasoned ideas on a forum without it devolving into personal insults and sarcastic commentary (like this).

[AJinFLA]

Bring or find someone with a Peachtree Nova, they're very susceptible to PC changes

The Peachtree, or the someone...is very susceptible to PC changes??

I use netbooks myself, not PCs. But if Danny/Dave lend me one of them fancy AC cords, I'll be sure to use it on my netbook to increase it's resolution. I'm guessing at least QSXGA out of my of my current max WSVGA?

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

In conclusion, we have virtually no correlation between measurements and perceived sound. Maybe some day in the future.

Cheers.

Man, that's really bad news for all us speaker builders out there. Dang!

Hey Steve, have you ever considered doing an audiophile version of myth busters on YouTube? Please make sure to include Poppy Crum (and feature her disproportionately)  when you do, so I can watch it! Thanks man.

cheers,

AJ

[face]

There's the AJ I know.   

[Ethan Winer]

No suggesting people are being arrogant or the like.

I can't imagine what I said that could seem arrogant. It's true that test gear can measure sounds far softer than anyone can hear. How is my saying that arrogant?

This is a somewhat esoteric subject.

It's really not esoteric at all. As I said, a null test can prove this stuff for certain. My Audio Myths video describes the null test, and explains why it's conclusive. If power cords really made a difference, vendors would be all over that showing hard proof. Which I also said.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

some of Ethan's statements seem to be written with the sole intention of getting people fired up and arguing.

That's the last thing I want. Sometimes people take offense at direct statements that contradict their beliefs. So I go out of my way to 1) be polite, and 2) back up everything I say. Again, most relevant here is the null test. It proves that power cords do not alter the sound quality through the connected equipment. If people are offended by this proof, they need to re-think their position.

I would like to learn more about his sound system and how/why he chose the components that he uses to listen to music. I hope that he does indeed listen to music like we do (as consumers/music lovers, not producers/engineers). That would make the conversation more relevant to this forum.

I am an audiophile, and also an audio and video producer and musician. Why do you think a producer can't also enjoy listening? Some of the best mastering engineers come from an audiophile background. I'd go further and argue that the more one understands about production and music performance, the more they appreciate recorded (and live) music.

My 5.1 home theater / hi-fi system is modest by high-end standards. I have Mackie 624 bi-amped speakers with a killer SVS subwoofer. All of this is controlled by a $150 Pioneer receiver. My home studio in a different room has large old-school JBL professional speakers. Both systems are extremely clear, and can play cleanly to very loud volumes. Come on over for a visit! 

--Ethan

[Steve]

Man, that's really bad news for all us speaker builders out there. Dang!

cheers,

AJ

I guess I was responding to the "everything sounds the same" crowd.
Close specs do not mean all sounds the same when it comes to electronics. See my post bottom of page 6. (There is a difference between speaker specs and electronic specs.)

Anyway, sorry about that.

[JohnR]

What precisely is a "null test"?

[Steve]

What precisely is a "null test"?

Hi John,

In the null test a few propose, one takes a signal, then reverses the polarity of the signal and then compares. The claim is that one will hear a difference. Of course there are assumptions made, and I address one in post #119, on page 6 (bottom of page).

Cheers.

[AJinFLA]

I guess I was responding to the "everything sounds the same" crowd.

Ah. Them. The mythical kombucha straw people. Gotcha.

Close specs do not mean all sounds the same when it comes to electronics.

True. Agreed. Then surely close specs does not also mean that all sounds different when it comes to electronics??

(There is a difference between speaker specs and electronic specs.)

True again. Btw, what transduces the electronics specs to the ears?

Anyway, sorry about that.

No need. If only there were tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek emoticon for me to use constantly.....
Btw, you would only need to apologize if Poppy wasn't in the video.
Carry on....

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

What precisely is a "null test"?

An old engineering trick perhaps most famously unveiled to audiophiles here: http://carvermk2.com/Docs/Carver%20Stereophile%20Challenge.pdf
Worked like a charm

cheers,

AJ

[Steve]

True again. Btw, what transduces the electronics specs to the ears?

cheers,

AJ

So what is your point?

Cheers.

[planet10]

I can't imagine what I said that could seem arrogant. It's true that test gear can measure sounds far softer than anyone can hear. How is my saying that arrogant?

Perhaps the comment that anything we can hear can be measured. I too believe this will be possible, but the current state of measurement is no where near being able to do this (a measurement technique that doesn't exist yet, does us no good).  Measurements are a very useful design tool, helping to get the basics right & to find issues that are not directly audible.

The null test is not a panacea either. There has been no studies that have correlated what comes out of that and how the ear/brain interprets it.

And one needs to be very careful the numbers that are spit out... for instance, single number THD is a meaningless specification. And ifone goes back a step before all the information is thrown away to make that single number, there is still a lot of room for interpretation.  For instance 1% of 2nd order is much less objectionable than 0.01% 7th order.

dave

[eclein]

What precisely is a "null test"?

Taken in conjunction with the VOID test you got nothing or a puddle. 

[MaxCast]

So what is your point?

Cheers.

I think he means speakers but I say air.