[AJinFLA]

Why ask me? Do your own thinking.

Cheers.

I'm a speaker/soundwaves type guy, not much of a power cord tester. I was deferring to your expertise. So you don't know of any?

cheers,

AJ

[batmanslc2]

I really dont knock equipment very often, but i have owned for at least one month or more probably 10 to 15 different pairs of speakers from maggies, aci, quad, von scheikert (sp) GR, talon and some I cant remember, no big deal. I am no expert, I only know what worked for me.

The mackie hr824 provided me with the least amount of musical enjoyment of any others i have owned.
Also note i really enjoy my quad 12L active, but have a list of speakers I am eager to try

I know this is not pertinent to the thread, but i had to chime in

[AJinFLA]

The mackie hr824 provided me with the least amount of musical enjoyment of any others i have owned.

Did you use the stock power cord?
Ok just kidding, ....JUST.....KIDDING

[sebrof]

By all means, I agree with being skeptical.  I don't expect your belief in my appraisal, as your evaluation doesn't change my experience.  However, I do expect your respect that my appraisal was honestly given. And if honestly given, how am I to deny what my senses tell me?  Will you also tell me that I cannot tell a Steinway from a Baldwin if a microphone fails to confirm my differentiation?

Scott

You seem to be completely disregarding that we know our senses are very unreliable.

There are numerous examples of how our senses filter or alter what we sense.
One of my earlier posts linked to the McGurk effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

I'm not talking about power cords or interconnects, or if you did or did not hear a difference. I'm talking about what we know about how our brains work. Your post contradicts that.
Sorry if this irritates you (you mentioned that in your earlier post), but it puzzles me that people say what you said in spite of what we know.

I guess my point is that there are probably more "audiophiles" with useless things/tweaks that they believe they hear than "audiophiles" with $150 receivers and mackie speakers that (IMO) could be getting more from their music.
AGAIN - Not talking about PCs or anything else, specifically talking about how we do not necessarily hear what we believe we hear.

[Speedskater]

One has to also consider solid wire VS stranded wire as micro arcing occurs between strands. Stranded wire can have a softer, smeared sound than solid wire. So right there we have a sonic difference in wire.

Cheers.

No amount of wishing and believing can make this true.
It just does not happen.

[Quiet Earth]

Ethan, you are doing your company a great disservice by admitting that you do not at all understand what your client base is after, while making your disdain for them perfectly clear.

Are you kidding? If I had twelve thousand posts on Gearslutz (not to mention other pro audio forums), I would be kissing my computer after reading this thread.

[Steve]

No amount of wishing and believing can make this true.
It just does not happen.

I wish it did not occur as it would make things so much simpler.    Unfortunately sonic differences do occur.

Cheers.

[planet10]

You seem to be completely disregarding that we know our senses are very unreliable.

If that were truly the case, we would have all been eaten by lions, tigers & bears a long time ago. A person may thou, in these modern times, to not have had the opportunity to train to bring out the potential.

dave

[neekomax]

By all means, I agree with being skeptical.  I don't expect your belief in my appraisal, as your evaluation doesn't change my experience.  However, I do expect your respect that my appraisal was honestly given. And if honestly given, how am I to deny what my senses tell me?  Will you also tell me that I cannot tell a Steinway from a Baldwin if a microphone fails to confirm my differentiation?

Scott

I have no reason to doubt that your appraisal is honestly given, please forgive any perceived intimation to the contrary. The issues at hand seem to be: Why do you hear what you hear? So do we refer to measurable data to rule out physical anomalies in the soundfield? If anomalies are measured, cool, case closed. If nothing is discerned using available scientific methods, we can deduce either that a) no method exists capable of discerning these differences or b) that some other factors are at play, such as psychological ones.

So far, no one has shown measured differences in power cables that would account for the perceived sq variations discussed here, so...

Isn't the proceeding therefore reasonable?

Also, I could be wrong about this, but aren't the sonic signatures of two very different pianos very measurable in the acoustic soundfield? As are different speakers, and other measurably different factors. We're talking about factors that aren't.

[AJinFLA]

If that were truly the case, we would have all been eaten by lions, tigers & bears a long time ago. A person may thou, in these modern times, to not have had the opportunity to train to bring out the potential.

dave

The survival of early man depended on their ability to hear power cords and wires? Not their animal hearing, vision, smell, physical strength, speed and most importantly, brain power? Really?
Power cord and such hearing ability is a survival evolved perception. Ahhh.....

cheers,

AJ

[sebrof]

If that were truly the case, we would have all been eaten by lions, tigers & bears a long time ago. A person may thou, in these modern times, to not have had the opportunity to train to bring out the potential.

dave

A fun part of this hobby for me, besides the gear and the music, is how we react to music and what music does to/for us. Why do we dance when we hear some tunes, why people in the western world prefer western music and vis versa eastern ('cause we're used to it is the answer), stuff like that. It spills over into how our brains process music and how our other senses work. What our senses do, the hoops they jump through to make the world make sense is truely fascinating. This includes our stereos but it's much broader than that.

Dave you bring up an excellent point. In fact, our senses are tuned so that we do not get eaten by predators. Some say that's a big part of the reason our senses jump through hoops, because the modern world isn't in sync with our primal senses.
Although in his book "This is Your Brain on Music," Daniel J. Levitin makes a good case that music is more deeply engrained in our DNA than we ever thought.

[planet10]

Although in his book "This is Your Brain on Music," Daniel J. Levitin makes a good case that music is more deeply engrained in our DNA than we ever thought.

Required reading that.

dave

[Danny Richie]

So far, no one has shown measured differences in power cables that would account for the perceived sq variations discussed here, so...

For all of you guys trying to find a difference with a microphone, you're measuring the wrong thing.

You are looking for amplitude changes. The power cord does not do that. The difference is not at the top of the scale. It's at the bottom.  You are measuring the notes, but the difference is in the space between the notes. The power cable, conditioners, and AC filters are not changing the information on the music. It's changing all of the other nasty things that are parasites that have jumped on that cable for a free ride and are not part of the music stream. The difference is not at the top of the scale. The differences are in the noise floor.

Plus, I know for a fact that products like Dave's Majik Buss or Uber Buss and good power cables make the transformers using in the electronics operate more efficiently. I have heard these things make BIG differences in a system.

All of you guys that are looking to measure some difference needs to figure out what to measure for and how to measure it, and stop trying to measure it with your bath room scale, then claiming there is no difference. And trying to measure it with the bath room scale is not much more ridicules that some of the things I have heard. You guys are missing the boat.

[AJinFLA]

Here's the thing, why don't folks calling themselves Subjectivist look up the term subjective to see what it really means?
If you say, AJ, this power cord makes my music sound better...I say, cool, party on Garth...
All is well.
But no, doesn't work that way.
You say, AJ, this power cord makes my system sound better (implying a physical/soundwave change as the reason), due to less "strand jumping", etc, etc. (implying physical/soundwave change as the reason), well now you've transcended pure subjectivity and moved into objective claim territory. Changes in physical reality, that result in soundwave changes that are within audibility thresholds.
Now you've opened yourself up to objective scrutiny. Hissy fit or not. Be prepared to answer rational, logical, objective questions.

Or stick with "it just sounds better to me", no objective reasoning required. Pure subjectivity.

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

And trying to measure it with the bath room scale is not much more ridicules that some of the things I have heard.

Dan, would you believe me if I told you I actually do measure my speakers with a bath room scale? Seriously.

cheers,

AJ

[neekomax]

The differences are in the noise floor.

Does that mean the differences are below the noise floor? If that's the case, then that would be a logical reason why they cannot be heard.

If I use a bathroom scale to measure my weight, and that scale does not measure differences in micrograms, should I be concerned? 

[doug s.]

All of you guys that are looking to measure some difference needs to figure out what to measure for and how to measure it, and stop trying to measure it with your bath room scale, then claiming there is no difference. And trying to measure it with the bath room scale is not much more ridicules that some of the things I have heard. You guys are missing the boat.

hear hear!  (no pun intended!)     which is why i said ethan was arrogant - that he believes everything can be measured.     while i don't think changes in power cords are that great once a certain level has been achieved, i don't dismiss claims from those who do, and i believe our knowledge is minute compared to what we do not know.

also, i do believe ethan when he says he cannot distinguish sounds of different cabling - i defy anyone to hear cabling differences in his rig!   

doug s.

[doug s.]

Does that mean the differences are below the noise floor? If that's the case, then that would be a logical reason why they cannot be heard...

no, it means the differences are in the noise floor, and eliminating the noise, lowers the floor, and the music sounds better.  i remember a few years ago, when i was modding my art di/o dac.  i did it in stages, and each time, the noise floor dropped, and more music was revealed...

doug s.

[neekomax]

no, it means the differences are in the noise floor, and eliminating the noise, lowers the floor, and the music sounds better.  i remember a few years ago, when i was modding my art di/o dac.  i did it in stages, and each time, the noise floor dropped, and more music was revealed...

doug s.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, it should be demonstrable through measurements of the resulting noise floor that certain power cables contribute less noise?  That seems reasonable. Anyone have a link?

[doug s.]

Ok, so if I understand correctly, it should be demonstrable through measurements of the resulting noise floor that certain power cables contribute less noise?  That seems reasonable. Anyone have a link?

no, it is unlikely that you could trace measurable differences in the power cable to lower noise floor.  which is why some of us believe that measurement technique/knowledge is lacking.

doug s.