[JohnR]

There's no silver bullet.

[dlaloum]

That's annoying - what am I going to do about all the local werewolves?

[JohnR]

You can sooth their savage breasts with hi-res vinyl playback.

[Quiet Earth]

I actually enjoy reading all of the technical replies on this forum. I find myself re-reading a lot of it because just like the rest of you, I want to understand how it all works. I also want to see someone else's take on it. But at some point I have to take a break from the data and try to put it into perspective. If I can't make real sense of it, or it just does not fit with what I experience, then I put it on the back burner and get back to it later.

Maybe that's what sparked the original question of this post. Someone who was drowning in a sea of information asked for a life jacket.

[woodsyi]

You can sooth their savage breasts.

Oh but Congreve was talking about live musick in the 17th century.  How much resolution in which format would sooth today's savage Breasts?  Or does it take a live lutist? 

[woodsyi]

Maybe that's what sparked the original question of this post. Someone who was drowning in a sea of information asked for a life jacket.

Frank has high res playback system.  I am sure Wayner will come around to it once he samples some 70's prog rock on high res.

[neekomax]

Oh but Congreve was talking about live musick in the 17th century.  How much resolution in which format would sooth today's savage Breasts?  Or does it take a live lutist? 

If we've learned anything, I think it's that it takes a 17th century lutist recorded to ye olde reele to reele, the playback of which to be measured for THD with a dowsing rod and a sextant.

Sorry, that was ridiculous.

[dlaloum]

Not ridiculous just wrong tools...

As we are seeking the philosophers stone, which turns recordings into live music..... an Alembic will be required.... and somewhere along the line, some virgins by the full moon would be involved.... (is it sounding any better now?)

[JohnR]

Sorry, that was ridiculous.

No need to apologize.

I do agree with Wayner, if (if) the point is that the pursuit of higher resolution just for the sake of it makes no sense. However, that is only from the blinkered (no offence) perspective of a particular individual consumer; from the perspective of all of us in general, it means that the market has a reason to keep pushing the technology envelope, so that higher res becomes cheaper, and eventually commonplace. I don't see how anyone can lose, to be honest, when 24/96 downloads from e.g. itunes store are standard - not because they were demanded, but because it's so cheap to do that anything less makes no sense.

However, I don't think that the somewhat specious arguments about filling in gaps are all there is to vinyl playback. Digital is digital, it's not "closer" to analog regardless of the number of bits or the sample rate.

[jtwrace]

Frank has high res playback system.

Maybe that's the issue.  Maybe the AVA digital isn't what wayner likes...might need to listen to some other Dac's.   

[woodsyi]

Maybe that's the issue.  Maybe the AVA digital isn't what wayner likes...might need to listen to some other Dac's.   

It's not AVA.  It's the music.  Yes or EL&P.  Wayner doesn't like new stuff. 

[JohnR]

Oh but Congreve was talking about live musick in the 17th century.  How much resolution in which format would sooth today's savage Breasts?  Or does it take a live lutist? 

Who's Congreve?

Hang on, I just have to get up to get the needle over that scratch.

Back again (that was real, I swear).

A live lutist - that would be hard to beat in terms of realism. Hopefully the performance wouldn't be discussed in terms of "resolution" though.

[woodsyi]

Who's Congreve?

Coiner of the soothing savage Breast.

Two of Congreve's turns of phrase from The Mourning Bride (1697) have become famous, albeit frequently in misquotation:

    "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast," which is the first line of the play, spoken by Almeria in Act I, Scene 1. (The word "breast" is often misquoted as "beast", and 'has' sometimes appears as 'hath'.)
    "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned," spoken by Zara in Act III, Scene VIII.[1] (This is usually paraphrased as "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned")

[dlaloum]

Who's Congreve?

Hang on, I just have to get up to get the needle over that scratch.

Back again (that was real, I swear).

A live lutist - that would be hard to beat in terms of realism. Hopefully the performance wouldn't be discussed in terms of "resolution" though.

I have a friend who plays the Oud (middle eastern lute) - there are plans afoot to have him performing for the opening of our community centre....

Live, acoustic music.... a novel experience for a LOT of people!

Also used to know a guy who ran a "hifi" store locally, and was involved with a mandolin group.... he organised a bunch of electrostatic panels that were used to amplify the mandolin performance in a larger hall.... I am unconvinced that it was needed (people could learn to be quiet during a performance?) - but the sound was really good - sounded "acoustic" - even if it wasn't... and very few amplified systems in live performances achieve that.

bye for now

David

[vinyl_guy]

I find myself re-reading a lot of it because just like the rest of you, I want to understand how it all works.

QE,

Not all of us care about the technical side or desire to understand how it works. I understand that the technical side is important and I'm glad there are folks who understand how it works and want to understand (otherwise how would an engineer or audio designer know what to do to make it work or repair it when it doesn't work), but I'm not one of them. The fact that it works is good enough for me. I don't understand the graphs and don't need to in order to appreciate a good audio system and the music I hear from a good system, whether vinyl (prefered) or digital. I trust my ears.

Laura

[TONEPUB]

I'm with Laura.  I only care about the results.

[jtwrace]

I only care about the results.

Very surprising!   

[Quiet Earth]

You're absolutely right Laura, not everyone cares about why or how it works. Sorry to through a blanket statement out there like that. I just didn't want to alienate the people who are seeking truth through measurement, that's all.

I don't mean to imply that measurement is not necessary either. I know better than that. Now, lets see if I can paint myself into a tighter corner . . . . . . 


BTW, I agree with everything you said except that I honestly can't tell you that I prefer one format over the other (digital vs. analog). I really can't make up my mind. What can I say,,,,, I like them both!

[WC]

It is all about the music, right? 

I have a combination of LPs and CDs. I mainly listen to CDs, mainly because my CDs sound better than LPs on my system. Most of the LPs I picked up are from over 15 years ago when the record stores were clearing them out. I don't play the LPs because my turntable is not enjoyable to listen to. In time I will get a better turntable, then we will see which is better.

I have done some searches for vinyl for a few of my favorite bands and came up empty. So if I want to listen to them it won't be on vinyl.

[Wayner]

Frank's DACs are awesome. I have the Insight+ in the big system with my MartinLogans and it is very revealing, dynamic and very listenable. And that is with the standard 44.1/16 CD.

On another note, I do have some relatively new music by Beck-Sea Change on MOFI and also The Flaming Lips-At War with the mystics and even some Radiohead-OK Computer (Pink Floyd, they are not).

As stubborn as some of you think I am, I question myself all the time. That is what happens when you are an engineer. I also change my mind alot. I also suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder. Working on a CAD and in the design field for 35 years has altered my thinking strategies. I catch myself moving things on a desktop to a symmetrical position, or change a position of a coaster because it is not properly aligned. It is in every aspect of my life. A place for everything and everything in it's place.

So, to that end, I constantly ask myself if I am going in the right direction. Is vinyl the all to end all? I certainly have traveled down a very long journey, owning and selling more tables then I can remember. The collection is almost un-managable, and there is simply no way that I can listen to everything. I have bought collections that I have barely touched, let alone listened to.

But I am also a vinyl resurgence guy. I actually gave away almost all of my records, sold my Empire to a friend, who later traded it back to me (what was I thinking) and I began my quest to replenish my collection (and then some). I have records of stuff that is ultra-rare for vinyl and are very treasured.

I enjoy CDs and I understand that it is a format of convenience. There are some awesome sounding CDs in the collection. To me they both have their own sound, but they are also at least 2 different systems in different rooms. One room is for vinyl, the other for digital.

I listen to vinyl in near field and the sound is truly an eye opener. I have  many times asked myself, what the hell is in them grooves? So while the technology for digital music improves, so does the technology for vinyl. For me, it's the improvement in geometry and cartridge technology, but phono preamps play a large roll as does the rest of the entire chain.

So now I ask, "what is the deal with high resolution music"? Lots of folks are jumping on board and at first, I thought I understood, now I don't. I also ask myself, what is the goal of digital? The only real answer I could come up with is that it wants to be analog. People want it, the technology wants it, it's the end to the beginning. But I hear, even in this thread, that ordinary CDs are about the best it can get, others claim that higher res formats will overcome everything, and perhaps it will. But, again I wonder, when will it end? Should I jump on board and dump all my vinyl?

But then it all comes back to me. If digital's goal is to end up sounding like the ultimate pure analog (or am I wrong on this assumption), then why go thru all the trouble? I'm already at pure analog. No, it's not the master tape, but it's damn close to it. Others must be in persuit of the the same thing, but just haven't realized it. I've not said that their systems are bad or the music is bad, it's just not there yet, if the ultimate goal of digital is to be just like analog. There are lots of gaps between the digital words. How many numbers are between zero and one. That would be infinity. At what resolution, will the human ear not hear flaws? Someone thinks there are flaws, cause the res numbers keep going up.

In the end, it's the pursuit of perfect music. I bitch when the air conditioner comes on, 'cause it ruins the blackness of the recording. It's back to that CO disorder.

That is why I asked the question.

Wayner