[Wayner]

Thanks George, I am still running a small recording studio in my "studio" and when I use mics for use with acoustic instruments, the hard-drive noise can be an issue. Perhaps some hi-res guys use SSD?

Proper mic placement helps to guard against drive noise, but I can sometimes hear my freezer compressor running in another room (and it's very quiet) and that pisses me off too.

We pay lots of money for our music and our equipment and I don't want to hear shit running in my listening room or other rooms!!!!!

Wayner 

[sts9fan]

Maybe your setup is subpar. And I say that without trying to knock your setup or discount your opinion.

You may be correct. That said, I don't think it's that bad. The things that make me not love vinyl would be more true of one of those $50k+ vinyl rigs.

[*Scotty*]

Wayner,I used to think the same thing about CDs,that the people producing them were intentionally degrading the sound possible from the format.
 Judging by the number of artists who have had their CDs remastered or re-manufactured because the finished product did not remotely resemble the sound of their master, it appears that several somethings can go wrong during the manufacturing process. Especially if the people other than the artists involved in the production just don't care.
 The most telling example of improvements possible to the sound of CDs are the results that can be achieved from using the JVC XRCD mastering and production process.
 I recently acquired the XRCD mastered version of that old audiophile chestnut Jazz at The Pawnshop. I already had 1991 Japanese pressing and was never bolled over by the sound,it was good but I have many far better sounding recordings. Listening to the XRCD version was an ear opening experience. I had judged the basic sound quality possible from the analogue master based on what I thought it sounded like from listening to the CD. I was completely wrong about what was captured on the original master tape. The XRCD version is amazing,whether you like the quality of the musicians performance on this recording is of course an entirely separate discussion.
I suspect and fear that sound quality of virtually every single CD we have in our collections could be substantially improved by the XRCD process.
Scotty

[JohnR]

A standard computer in the music room?  That is a different story...and I can see how that "could" be distracting or noticeable in some situations.

I put mine just around the corner in the kitchen. The old one was quite noisy, but the new one is much quieter and I don't think it would be terribly hard to make it inaudible (except that we like it where it is anyway). Regardless, this is just one of those things to be dealt with, it's a lot less rigmarole than finding a good support for a TT or figuring out where to put subs. Having said that, I can see that's certainly an attraction of the BDP-1 route.

[*Scotty*]

I use a dedicated ASUS Eee PC 1000HE running eeebuntu Linux to play back wave-files and the little netbook is silent or at least below the 40db noise floor in my living room. The cooling fan in my ASUS Z84j is audible within 2.ft of the left side of the laptop. In either case playing any music at all in the room masks the noises made by either computer. Desktops need not APPLY.
Scotty

[wgscott]

My mac mini and its external drive are pretty near silent.  i cannot hear them more than 12" away.  if i used SSDs, they would be even more quiet.  This simply isn't an issue.

[TONEPUB]

You may be correct. That said, I don't think it's that bad. The things that make me not love vinyl would be more true of one of those $50k+ vinyl rigs.

What does that mean?

[twitch54]

Ahhhhh ......the digital / analog debate will never die ! As Jeff (TonePub) and others have said there are great examples in both camps and many a 'dud' as well.

As a life long 'analog junkie' I'll be the first to admit that it takes far more effort and $$ to do analog 'right' vs digital.

As for my love of vinyl over digital, being an old fart that grew up in the sixties my vinyl collection is extensive and as I approach the ripe old age of sixty and my hearing at the freq extremes is not what it used to be, the mid freq just seem more 'right' to me in quality analog playback.

[E4T]

For me, it's as simple as home vs. away for the most part.

In my living room it's gonna be vinyl 9 times out of 10.  But I fly a lot, and spend time in the car and hotels, away from home...in East Africa no less.  Hi Res Digital can be amazing, and I have invested in head phone amps and quality IEMs to enjoy digital as most as I can.  And I do!  I have to listen to music, and I want it as warm or natural as possible.......but it's not as simple as Vinyl vs Digital to me.  I have to have (and enjoy) both.  Not having regular access to record stores, I am very glad that I can get new music online. I'd be screwed without that option, in the sense that I love buying new music. 

Having said that.  There is nothing more enjoyable, listening wise, than putting an LP on my turntable and system.  Besides the sound/audio experience, I enjoy the ritual of it all much more.  Physical sensation of the object/the record, the LP sleeve, the fullness in sound, etc.  I think my attention to the details is more intense when I am putting on a record.  There is nothing like it!

[wgscott]

I've ripped a few vinyl records.  They definitely sound different compared to CDs, even at redbook sampling.

Apart from the snap, crackle, pop, wow, flutter, skipping, etc., I wonder if the vinyl rips sound better simply because they succeed in capturing the harmonic distortion of record playback that nostalgic baby-boomers equate with their youth.

[vinyl_lady]

Apart from the snap, crackle, pop, wow, flutter, skipping, etc.,

Good record care, a quality vacuum record cleaning machine and a good TT, tone arm & cartridge properly set up and isolated will eliminate virtually all of this. These artifacts of yesteryear are certainly not an issue for me with vinyl.

[twitch54]

Apart from the snap, crackle, pop, wow, flutter, skipping, etc., I wonder if the vinyl rips sound better simply because they succeed in capturing the harmonic distortion of record playback that nostalgic baby-boomers equate with their youth.

As Laura said, not an issue with those of us that know what were doing..........report back when you've had the opportunity to listen to well cared for vinyl on a quality front end.......you obviously haven't experienced that yet .........

[wgscott]

Well, I guess if I were willing to spend $50K on a turntable and its associated obsolete technology in order to better a $50 Costco CD player, I would have be willing to suspend disbelief. 

[Regalma]

Maybe the question is backwards. Are Vinyl lovers just High Rez wannabies?

[macrojack]

I'm a hi-rez don't wannabe.

And Mr. Scott, I can't pretend to know where you are coming from with your misinformation and extreme hyperbole, but the facts here deviate significantly from the position you are failing to support.

A very serviceable analogue playback system can be assembled for for under $1000 if one is informed and creative or patient or lucky. Or some combination of all of those. $50K is a stupid assumption at best.

OTO, if you can be happy with a $50 Costco CD player, you are not going to experience hi-rez. And you really are not equipped to contradict the comments of other more experienced and/or better equipped members.

I like digital well enough but I can't brook de facto assertions about it's overriding superiority. Yes, it can do things that a turntable cannot but you could also say that about a shovel. And since you seem to be digging a hole here, a shovel might serve you better than digital right now.

[wgscott]

 

OK, it might have been a bit of an over-exaggeration, but the main point is that one should compare a turntable/phono pre-amp vs. a music server/DAC of similar quality (and presumably, of similar cost).  The OP obviously was just trolling a bit, and so I replied in kind.

In reality, I prefer the convenience of digital music from my mac mini, and probably wouldn't go back to vinyl even if it could be shown to be (for example) 10% better.  My sister has a huge investment in vinyl, so it would make no sense for her not to have a record playing sub-system.  I have about six records, so it makes little sense for me to have one.

I was serious about the idea that a small amount of harmonic distortion in the upper frequencies with vinyl playback might be judged to be more pleasing to the ear by the same tastes that prefer tubes to solid-state, for the same sorts of reasons.  Maybe all-digital playback is too "pure" to be musical to some tastes.

[TONEPUB]

As someone who has a $50k digital front end and pretty close to that in analog as well, it's a pretty even match at this level. I still think it comes down to care in recording and mastering.  I've heard some really impressive 24/192 files though, and when comparing them to the best analog I had, I would definitely give the nod to the digital.

But in terms of what is the "best", it's tough because the variation in the software is so wide.  I'm just happy that digital is as good as it is, because half of my collection is digital.  I like it all.

[macrojack]

Mr. Scott - It makes no sense for you to have 6 records - send them to me. I have everything necessary to enjoy them except perhaps your taste in music. That remains unknown for now.

I seem to be too inherently low tech to grasp the whole computer based music thang. Every thread I attempt to read on the subject speaks in terms I don't understand and fades into a maelstrom of anagrams and abbreviations. Digital appears to have quite a dissimilar lexicon when compared to old fashioned audio. For me it represents virtual confusion.

[TheChairGuy]

Well, this post certainly has brought some new posters to the Vinyl Circle.....that in itself not a bad thing 

Just continue to keep it relatively civil between you all, folks.....enjoying music takes different forms and is meaningful to everyone in unique ways.

We're awfully fortunate to have the time and good fortune to argue about music formats....when 20% of the world, some 1.4 BILLION or so, goes to sleep each night wondering where their next meal will be coming from. 

That is the equivalent of all of Europe, the US, Japan, Australia, Canada + another assorted 100 million folks go to sleep very hungry each night.

Trying to keep overall perspective on all of this nuance stuff so it hopefully stays civil (no political message is intended nor requires commentary further I think)

John / Facilitator

[wgscott]

We're awfully fortunate to have the time and good fortune to argue about music formats....when 20% of the world, some 1.4 BILLION or so, goes to sleep each night wondering where their next meal will be coming from.

I think that is a really good point.  The idea of spending tens of thousands of dollars to make something most people can enjoy on an iPod sound a bit better, in the middle of a world-wide depression, and ever-widening disparity between those on the top and those on the bottom, should give us all pause.