[PDR]

Isnt it just a perception.....isnt sound of any kind just a perception to each person?

How can you know absolutely how I perceive a note is how you or anyone else does?
I think there are so many variables......ear shape, skull size, environment, history of the listener, that there is no way you can compare one persons "opinion" to what sound of any kind, is to another person. These debates always assume a equal playing ground.
It never is.....even with identical twins there are always variables that can make a difference.

How do you argue your opinion is better than mine?.....never did get that.

So whenever one person says this "sounds" better than that.....I believe them. Just like I have my opinion, based on my body and history and environment. Measurements are just a benchmark.....the rest is all personal perception.

[Mitsuman]

Humans are indeed interesting.

First, would like to distinguish analog as either vinyl or reel to reel, as reel to reel has different engineering limitations.

Second, to me, vinyl in particular just sounds inferior with classical.  Neil Young's assertions about analog seems tied to his own music, which is much different than reproducing classical. 
 

I have to admit, I don't listen to that much classical music. Call me a caveman, or whatever you want, but live, amplified music does it for me. I don't think Neil was only inferring he didn't like the way his music sounded via digital, I think he (along with many other musicians like Henry Rollins, etc.) was referring to digital music in general. Anywho, I think we should be able to agree on the views presented in this article. 

http://www.digido.com/back-to-analog.html

Peace

[neobop]

I have attempted to post the engineering reasons as to why digital has surpassed vinyl.  The old arguements about jitter, digital filtering, etc has largely been address and resolved. 

Someone else said that an analog wave form can be perfectly reproduced from digital. Not sure about what kind of digital, but is this true for CD? We all know about the potential losses and/or limitations of different analog media. The question is, why do CD players sound different if they're perfect?  A CD spins between 200 and 500 RPM, perfectly? If I go out and buy a regular "decent" player, will it be free of playback problems, jitter and dither or whatever plagues them? Why are so many digital recordings bad sounding, old recordings?

In recreating an analog wave form, aren't we listing to the sonic signature of those electronics used to recreate that wave form? Has perfection been realized?

[SteveFord]

Back to tape, who would've thought?

[doug s.]

...I just read that the current high-res format may not be good enough and 384/32 is on it's way. Apparently, there are other folks that think digital is not the equal as of yet....

wayner, you completely miss the boat.  as was pointed out earlier in this thread, hi-rez folks are not "winyl wannabies".  (whatever that is?!?)  and, it has nothing to do w/whether one thinks digital is or is not yet the equal of winyl.  the simple fact is that proponents of both mediums are "live music wannabees".   your last statement - "Apparently, there are other folks that think digital is not the equal as of yet." -   proves your real motive regarding this thread.  so, you prefer winyl more than digital.  wow.   get a room full of 100 audiophiles, and i bet you will have 150 differing opinons about which is better!   

some folks think winyl is better; some folks think digital is better; some folks don't care.  (me personally?  i am in the 1st and 3rd camp, tho i couldn't listen to digital in my home rig for the 1st 15 years of its existence; i can now.)  and, everyone, no matter what format they're using, is constantly trying to improve that format.  i bet that ewen when it is unequivocally "proven" (?!?) that digital 384/32 kicks winyl's a$$, you can be sure that someone will be working on 768/64.  what else is new?   

doug s.

[rollo]

  Tastes better no less filling 


charles
SMA

[doug s.]

  Tastes better no less filling 


charles
SMA

uh-uh - tastes like $hite; no, makes you feel bloated!   

doug s.

[SteveFord]

Gives me gas.

[dlaloum]

Either that, or........

The emperor has no clothes!

[rbbert]

...

If everyone in the digital world was happy with the way digital sounded, they would not continue to find ways of making higher resolution recordings or playback software/hardware. It is completely evident.

That is one of the most nonsensical statements I have ever read!  By implication, you think vinyl LP's are a perfect reproduction medium? 

Really, what part of the current audio reproduction chain doesn't need significant improvement?

[TheChairGuy]

OK, I did some pruning (Wayner's last post) as it was incendiary...as this topic, in general, is becoming.

Here's a last point I want to get across....this circle is the Vinyl Circle. Those of you not vinyl enthusiasts (or former vinyl enthusiasts now fed up with the medium) must understand that this the circle where enthusiasts congregate and smear digital from time to time.

If you don't agree with it, then post something equally caustic on Hi-Res Circle (or another circle) about vinyl and let me fellow Facilitator and excellent guy Ted B deal with the harassment from vinyl enthusiasts that might drop in there.  Seriously, stay away from this circle if you cannot bring salient points to the discussion without resorting to anger.

I see the Vinyl Circle as a bit of an oasis from the rest of the digital world of hifi where enthusiasts can take some liberty to speak amongst themselves and lob a digi-smear once on a while.  If you don't like it - simply tune this circle out; you'll find plenty of other areas at AC that will welcome your comments. 

My comments here notwithstanding...this topic is degenerating into a situation whereby vinyl enthusiasts are now biting at other vinyl enthusiasts because their VIEW of analog strengths is different.  That's not going to be tolerated and, thus, we bring this topic to a close today.

It had a decent run, but I'm spending too much time tracking this now and I have to move on to better matters.  As, do most if not all of you

John