[jimdgoulding]

Nicely stated. I have heard a few dead rooms in the past and they do "sound dead". When over done, it sucks the life out of the music.

[McTwins]

Hi
All that is required when it comes to measurements.
Well, you know what I mean.

Don't know what you mean by "Like you, I didn't want a dead room, just a quiet one."

I don't have a dead room

It's intresting; I have 7*4,8*3 meters and I have no problem down to 20Hz.

I am just curious how your room is measuring.

Thanks

[JackD201]

You use a lot of diffusion so that basically makes you my kind of guy (doesn't like dead rooms/use too much absorption)

I'll get some SMAART snapshots. I usually just go about using a basic Phonic.

[McTwins]

Hi
AHA, now I know what you mean.

SMAART is a good measurement tool, now it gets interesting.

What is a basic Phonic?

Thanks

[JackD201]

It's a handheld SA and RT60 tool. The higher model does FFT and other higher functions. It's very handy for remote set ups. Usually we do things by ear but it's always nice to have objective data to be sure we aren't just imagining things.

http://www.phonic.com/en/paa3.html

[McTwins]

Ok, I understand.

Do you have any measurement from SMAART or not?? I'm a missing something here.
Do you have any kind of measurement you can show of your room?

Thanks

[JackD201]

Patience my friend, I gotta get it from my acoustician. I saw it and was happy with the result so I didn't get a print out or a file.

[McTwins]

Sometime it's hard to be patience, but I will wait for your reply on this

You didn't get a print or a file , you have to be kidding

I have to ask you, who is the acoustician that took the measurements??

Thanks

[JackD201]

Same guy who designed and built up both rooms.

Like I said I'm not too big a stickler for measurements and tune my system by ear. Albert measured after I'd tweaked and I was very close to DIN 4 weighting except for some bass lift, which I had really asked Mike to design in by going .7 at 20Hz. I can easily flatten this out by dialing down the 9's subs anyway. I was actually a bit tense when he put on the spectrum analyzer he brought along with him. I'm glad I passed. 

[DEV]

Hi Gavin,

This is a shot taken by the photographers of Vault (Magazine). They moved the furniture around so they could get full shots of what's on the racks in one go. At the time of the shoot the are rugs were (and still ARE Grrrrrrrrrrrrr) being made. Enjoy

Jack your room absolutely looks stunning, congrats!  I was looking at the other site which provided more pics from the get go and it was great to view.

[JackD201]

Thanks man! I can't wait to see you get started on your build. I'm sure it's gonna ROCK.

[DEV]

Thanks man! I can't wait to see you get started on your build. I'm sure it's gonna ROCK.

Jack, a couple of question in relation to your flooring choise.

1. what type of floor did you install?

2. thickness

3. how was it secured

4. Do you have a sub-floor underneith for protection against moisture

[JackD201]

Hi David

Engineered wood IIRC thickness was 5/8" nailed onto a layer of marine ply layed over concrete. The concrete all over except the ceilings were sealed about three times over a period of about 4 months of monsoon season until we felt sure enough to proceed with putting in the ceilings, false walls and the flooring was last. The structure is also surrounded by perforated pipes that lead to a cistern with two pumps powered by AC and backed up with an autoswitch diesel generator that also powers the second floor and kitchen. The entire basement area is dry as a bone. One year now and no musty smell whatsoever. KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!!

If I had the real estate I most definitely would have gone above ground. You planning something with your basement bro? I'd think long and hard about it if I were you. I still get antsy when the heavy rains come. You've got snow melt to deal with.

[DEV]

Hi Jack,

thanks for the info., yes since getting my TW Black Knight and most recent Vac 450's now my system has just surpased my exisiting family room space. I knew all along my limitations but now it's just time.

A few things that have made me hold off;

1.  We had a 6 year window so we were suppose to have already moved by now going on 12 years so I would be able to build my dream room which would be a separate building above grade, just hasn't happened due to timing, economy and my wife really likes the area we live.

2. My current home has a 3,000 sq. ft. basement with 9' 3" clear ceiling height from concrete slab to underneith joist in most areas but the whole space is messed up due to placement. Stairs, furnace beams and posts, if I knew I was going to be staying here so long then I would have made adjustments upon design but this just did not happen.

I have a clean space of 18' x 22' 10" to work within but have two exterior walls to deal with, basement is partially below grade, the exterior walls are poured concrete with already have existing 2" x 6" walls constructed.

I have another option available but I would need to relocate the furnace by 5 ft, doing this would give me 18' x 45' area to work within but have more beams and posts to contend with so I have opted if I do something to work with the first space.

So I have been trying to come up with a design and construction method that would provide me with a nice room.

I know I need to really try to mimic at least that one side wall otherwise this will be an issue sonic wise down the road.

No one has been able to provide such, my thoughts;

1. building that one new side wall different trying to mimic, adding two layers 1/2" cement board on the exterior side

2. one inside build option using Sonopan through out covering, then resilient channel, 2 layers of 5/8" drywall

3. another build option is a methood of using a special clip that mounts onto the framing, has rubber and then a "H channel" is placed inside and then you secure your 5/8" drywall to it. You can go further by using GREEN GLUE and then apply another sheet of 5/8" drywall.

There are other methods and just not sure  , first doing all of this cost money and I still won't have the room I'm really after. Not large enough, ceiling height not what I want and know all exterior walls need to be the same including whats behind.

So it has left me 

It would in the end just be just a tie me over project.

What did you have prior to designing and building your fabulous room?

Floor I would want to install a product that allows some drainage and be breathable so looking at using product such as DRIcore www.dricore.com or looking at Barricade insulated subfloor. I would like to put harwood ontop and then area rugs.

[JackD201]

We used to live in a 2 bedroom condo of about 150sq/m then moved to the 3 bedroom condo which was about 180sq/m when we had our second child. I turned the 2 bedroom into the "play" area and turned the entire living dining into a music room. It was long and narrow but I made do. When we got the news that baby number three was on the way, oh happy day  , we bought an existing house, tore it down and built from scratch. In our old place the farthest I could get the speakers apart was 7 ft. tweeter to tweeter but my listening position was some 12 ft. away. At first it sounded like I was in a submarine. I built up splayed false walls with rudimentary slatting for a bit of diffraction, built up a false front wall too. This wasn't enough so I hung ASC acoustic panels and that helped quite a bit. I hid bass trapping under the sofas. While in the end I was able to get good tonal balance, the spacing would allow stable but all in all mediocre imaging. We built the new place but of course my "Lair" was left for last. You know that part of the story already so we can skip that part.

It does look like you are in a bit of a bind. Looks like an architect/civil engineer is the first guy you'll need even before getting an acoustician. That stuff is waaaaaay over my head. I had my architect and contractors give me just two things: the space I dictated and do every possible thing to keep it dry. What little I know is conceptual. When they delivered that, I had my finishing contractor, electrical contractor and acoustical contractor work hand in hand with the ID. My only instructions was that my acoustician's word was law as we had already defined the targets. Anything aesthetic had to work around the treatment layout. If you'll notice I have the server/DSD rack separated from the Analog and CD/ Preamp racks by helmholtz resonators. Even I had to work around his layout.

[DEV]

The problem I'm finding is that individuals have different opinions which is the norm but what direction do you go. I won't name any companies but well known on the net and I have gone and listened to rooms and wasn't impressed, listened from owners expressing their frustration etc.

I will be constructing the room which is not a problem just need a direction in which I can first review and agree upon. Reading into your message it appears "THE MOST IMPORTANT" is to find the right acoustrcian to work with which is what I have been actually trying to do most recently. Thanks for that insite 

Last night I was at a persons place who just spent large on their room, very large and looks gorgeous but to my ears listening to two channel was way to dead, did not sound natural and I was told allot of changes had already been made and acoustic panels removed. Really makes me wonder how hiring someone (company) it can go so wrong. I have read on the net and had a many converstations with others whom had their rooms done to only be disatisfied also and having to re-do.







 

[JackD201]

That's where we got lucky. Ours had done a lot of work on our professional facilities already so we knew he could do excellent work given very different requirements. It's not that Mike is perfect, both Jim and I were prepared to add or subtract treatments. Simulations are never foolproof as we all know too well. In Jim's case, saw tooth panels were added to fill some small dead spots and in my case some diffusive elements needed some re-angling to flatten some peaks in the sweet zone. All in all very, very minor stuff.

True. Horror stories abound with regards to a number of projects. Sometimes the acoustician just doesn't have the ability to adjust his designs to the specific client's requirements. He meets specs but the client doesn't like it. Most  of the time I see shells that have severe limitations. Ironically it is folks with the big problems that seek out professional help and with that comes very high expectations. Even square rooms can be dealt with but for example, low ceiling height can be a nightmare for any acoustician. 

[fplanner2000]

Dev-  Contact Art Smuck.  He is very happy with the guy he used and I'm sure will be able to give you some guidance if you can catch him with some free time.  He's got a gorgeous room and it sounds very nice.

[Bill Baker]

You want to contact Jeff Hedback of HD Acoustics. This is the person that did Art's room, Ted Brady's room as well as our room at RMAF the past two years. Jeff is very good at what he does.

http://www.hedbackdesignedacoustics.com/

[fplanner2000]

thanks Bill - I'd forgotten Jeff's last name and company.