[audioman999]

I have some money put aside for upgrades and wanted to get your opinion on the best upgrade path. 

Current System:
Bryston B100SST with integrated DAC
Rotel RCD991 as transport
Totem Model 1 Signatures
Squeezebox Touch
Sub - possibility of using home theatre sub for bass extension
Rotel PLC900 power conditioner - I think it is more of a power bar than anything else
Cables - assortment of no name cables


I am currently considering the following potential upgrades and am looking for recommendations on highest level of improvement for the money.

Power conditioner - Torus, BIT or similar
Cables - speaker, interconnects, power - upgrade from current generic cables - recommenations welcome 
Speakers - PMC FB1i or OB1i(used) - looking for fuller range speakers than stand mount speakers, would like to place as close as possible to the back wall therefore would need something that is not rear ported.  other recommendations are welcome.

Budget is $3k.

Thanks

[Levi]

I highly recommend the PMC FB1i or the OB1i in your near future.  I find the PMC speakers sounds good in all genre even pop/rock/metal/dance. 

[Diamond Dog]

Speakers first, cables last.

D.

[john1970]

Might also want to try some B&W speakers (used) for around $3K.  There is a pair of 804S used for $3200 obo on Audiogon:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1302828959&/B-W-804S-Rosenut-finish

While I don't have the 804S speakers I have heard 802D combined with the 4B SST2 /BP26 and the results were very good. 

Good luck,

John

[mclsound]

I would absolutely go with the OB1's and only a good used pair,but $3000 will get you the non"i" in the OB1 flavour(which are a great speaker).
Save your cables and conditioners for last(TWEAK)

[1ZIP]

I just finished upgrading my system a couple of weeks ago and the last piece I added was a Torus.  The first question I asked myself was, "What don't I like about the sound of the current system?"  Not enough bass, to bright, harsh, not enough detail, etc..  Then I went from there, about the only thing I probably would not touch, at least for now, is the B100. 

[werd]

The Totem model 1's are nice. The PMC speakers will feel more like a parallel move. You are asking for an upgrade. Your power isnt great so get a Torus or something in that caliber and try and make it a 240 volt.....This will feel like its an upgrade and not just a comparible change in sound.

[alexone]

audioman,

speakers and/or electronics first! never auditioned any PMC speakers but from hearsay i'd say try the OB1(i)...?!
what about the External DAC BDA-1? advantages are the usb/xlr input and the ability to playback hi-res audio such as 176.4khz and 192khz (the B100's DAC 'only' can do up to 108khz ).
and yes, go for a BIT (Torus) it's also a good idea! and last but not least a BDP-1 if you are someone who likes to listen to music via hdd.
cables can make a difference but this is really something I wouldn't like to spend too much money on.
if you are looking for used stuff try Audiogon...

best,

al.

[Diamond Dog]

The Totem model 1's are nice. The PMC speakers will feel more like a parallel move. You are asking for an upgrade.

 
Werd : Can't help but think that based on cabinet size alone, going from a stand-mount monitor to a fair-sized floor-stander is going to have a substantial impact on sound...
Totem Model One


PMC FB1i

PMC OB1i

  Shown for scale

While I lack your technical expertise, respectfully IMO this substantial impact would certainly outweigh that of a power conditioner upgrade, dontcha think ?

D.

[werd]

Nah the totem's are just under appreciated on this board.....

Here is a good visual of the difference between good power and lousy power.

Lousy power is like Hoffman on the right. Your system is gimped without it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c412hqucHKw&feature=related

Now here is a visual with a good AC signal. Your system sounds like its on roids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCh5QswxQ6k

I don't make this shit up. its the way it is..... You want a gimped up PMC system then don't respect your power in. Or do you want an equally as good totem system, sounding likes its on roids..?  lol you decide.

[Diamond Dog]

Howdy:  Ain't no shame in Totems, my man. I don't see this as a "brand A" vs. "brand B" thing but as a matter of sheer cabinet volume and how it would affect the sound of the system. Say, going from Model Ones to Forests.

Your highly-accurate point on the importance of good power conditioning is well-taken ( and as always, presented in a highly-entertaining fashion ) - I use a power conditioner as well - but I still think that going from speakers the size of shoeboxes to full-on floorstanders is going to have a bigger impact. This isn't to say that good clean power does not play a key role, just perhaps more of a supporting role in terms of the macro IMHO.

And no, you "don't just make this shit up" and no-one said you did.

D.
 
   

[srb]

... but I still think that going from speakers the size of shoeboxes to full-on floorstanders is going to have a bigger impact.

Even more so with a properly designed transmission line enclosure like the PMC.
 
Steve

[werd]

Howdy:  Ain't no shame in Totems, my man. I don't see this as a "brand A" vs. "brand B" thing but as a matter of sheer cabinet volume and how it would affect the sound of the system. Say, going from Model Ones to Forests.

Your highly-accurate point on the importance of good power conditioning is well-taken ( and as always, presented in a highly-entertaining fashion ) - I use a power conditioner as well - but I still think that going from speakers the size of shoeboxes to full-on floorstanders is going to have a bigger impact. This isn't to say that good clean power does not play a key role, just perhaps more of a supporting role in terms of the macro IMHO.

And no, you "don't just make this shit up" and no-one said you did.

D.
 
 

Double D's..... dude, the biggest rip off right now in audio is the price point on PMC speakers here in NA. The OB1's are good but they are not worth almost 9k. The budget is 3k not 10k here.....lol. There are good points here on the pmc speakers being better than the totems. But look at the criteria and his laid out gear. The biggest upgrade right now under his criteria is power conditioning.

P.S

Saskatchewan doesn't  have wedding socials, Manitoba is the only province that allows them.....hehe

[Napalm]

Werd : Can't help but think that based on cabinet size alone, going from a stand-mount monitor to a fair-sized floor-stander is going to have a substantial impact on sound...

Unless you already have some subs in place.....

Nap.

[Mag]

Werd gave me a good deal on his Monster AVS 2000 power conditioner. I was skeptical at first but after hooking it up and turning it on. I was floored by the substantial increase in sound, particularly the bass. There was no way he was getting it back. Like I have 12 speakers hooked up, and you could see the voltage meter drop on my other power conditioner every time there was some heavy bass. The AVS 2000 keeps the voltage constant and thus all the speakers work at their maximum capability, I can feel the bass kick me in the gut.

Sure a bigger speaker is going to sound different, perhaps even better. But shouldn't a person know the full capability of a speaker first? A quality power conditioner will give you that, then you go from there.

[audioman999]

thanks for all the suggestions. 

I am thinking of trying to integrate a sub into the system to see how that works but it seems that full size speakers might do the trick without additional complications of finding the right placement, correct cut off level, additional cables, etc..

If I understand correctly, $3k isn't going to get me a huge increase in speaker capability and therefore other tweaks/improvements might be "better" upgrades.

With regards to the FB1(i) i imagine it would have more bass but other than that, not sure if it is much superior to the Totems.  These however would be within the budget.

With respect to the OB1(i) they always seem to be the recommended speaker but agree that they are out of the budget unless a very old used pair.  I believe I can get a pair of OB1i used for $4,500 in Canada.  While this is more than the budget, if the taxman is nice, i might be able to swing it.  If so, do your suggestions change?

Also, with power conditioners, do you usually demo them to see how much difference they make either in the store or at home? or do you just buy and hope it is worth the $$$.

Glad to hear cables are secondary, wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks again for the help.

[Waker]

A-Man, Werd and Mag have it right.  You have a system you can live with as you plan long term.  If you can imagine where you want to end up, it is best to add something in that you currently don't have, and the one thing that will serve your dream system someday and that will make everything that you now have sound better is the Torus.  Paying attention to the fundamentals of AC power now will give you a platform from which to appreciate future additions, because everything, no matter how good, suffers from a poor energy source.  The goal, IMHO, is to create a truly high-performance system, and ultra-clean, quiet and plentiful power is an absolute necessity.  In North America, add in a 240 volt outlet, as Werd suggests, and plug in that Torus 240/120 volt.  You won't be selling this in the future--it will be a permanent fixture in your reference system.       

[Napalm]

I am thinking of trying to integrate a sub into the system to see how that works but it seems that full size speakers might do the trick without additional complications of finding the right placement, correct cut off level, additional cables, etc..

If I understand correctly, $3k isn't going to get me a huge increase in speaker capability and therefore other tweaks/improvements might be "better" upgrades.

You would need some humongous speakers and high power amps in order to get the low bass that a rather common subwoofer can do.

With your budget I would definitely look at subs. Slightly bigger speakers won't do much.

Nap.

[mclsound]

First off----I absolutely agree with Werd on the biggest ripoff in speakers today is if you pay $7-$8000 for a pair of OB1i's...BUT for $3-$3500 they are a good speaker with a silk dome tweeter which is much better with the Bryston sound rather than a metal dome(tooooooo bright).
Now as far as keeping the model 1 sig's and calling a conditioner the end all upgrade is hog wash....MAYBE if you are completly happy with your systems sound but I believe only a transmission line will give one the extra bass out of a 5-6.5" woofer..
But have fun with your upgrades

[werd]

A-Man, Werd and Mag have it right.  You have a system you can live with as you plan long term.  If you can imagine where you want to end up, it is best to add something in that you currently don't have, and the one thing that will serve your dream system someday and that will make everything that you now have sound better is the Torus.  Paying attention to the fundamentals of AC power now will give you a platform from which to appreciate future additions, because everything, no matter how good, suffers from a poor energy source.  The goal, IMHO, is to create a truly high-performance system, and ultra-clean, quiet and plentiful power is an absolute necessity.  In North America, add in a 240 volt outlet, as Werd suggests, and plug in that Torus 240/120 volt.  You won't be selling this in the future--it will be a permanent fixture in your reference system.       

I know...  . Once you take a ride on that 240v rocket ship you won`t be getting off any time soon. The 4B  sees an immense increase in response with the rm 20 in 240. Way more then the 14B imo.

Mclsound go try a 240v, if anyone will appreciate it would be  you. It knocks down the size of your amps considerably for playing loud. Not all conditioners are made alike but the rm20 balanced is truly an amazing piece.