[werd]

I remember the first time i hooked up my 4Bsq to my rm20. I was not at all prepared for the immense power boost from the 240 in. I had to be very careful with the volume control. This reminds me of my first experience with my 4B and the rm20. I had to jump on the volume control quick and turn down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhlQgvHmQ0&feature=related

[Diamond Dog]

Double D's..... dude, the biggest rip off right now in audio is the price point on PMC speakers here in NA. The OB1's are good but they are not worth almost 9k. The budget is 3k not 10k here.....lol. There are good points here on the pmc speakers being better than the totems. But look at the criteria and his laid out gear. The biggest upgrade right now under his criteria is power conditioning.

P.S

Saskatchewan doesn't  have wedding socials, Manitoba is the only province that allows them.....hehe

Werd : PMC pricing is silly high but in the land of the wedding social, we don't pay full price for anything, baby! And I originally suggested that the OP consider speakers first, cables last. Never said anything about which speakers and I'm not going there because I am not: a) self-appointed taste-maker to the nation, b) familiar enough with all the options out there to offer an authoritative opinion, or c) willing to get into an audiophile slap-fight over something so utterly subjective. I've heard Totems sound pretty darn good though. I'm not here to shill for PMC - that's what Ian's for...
 Anyhoo, it appears our hero is discovering that finding a set of used, current-production mid-size PMC's in his price range could be a challenge but there's lots of really good speakers out there which would fit the bill.
I do believe that good clean power is an important component of a really swingin' system, but I've heard what happened when I added conditioning and I've heard what happened when I upgraded speakers. With my personal experience in mind, for my system in my little musical world, I'm gonna upgrade to a newer and better power conditioner than what I'm currently running, but after I've done all the other stuff first. Except cables, of course. Cuz that sh$t's just crazy...
Enjoy your Family Day, my friend !

D.

[Napalm]

I remember the first time i hooked up my 4Bsq to my rm20. I was not at all prepared for the immense power boost from the 240 in.

An amplifier with a properly designed internal power regulation should not need any external band-aid booster.

nap.

[mclsound]

Well Werd
I have installed 8/20 & 1/30 amp recepticles in my room($200) and if I pay between $3-$6000 for a used(retail $9-$15,000)amp and have to spend another $2000+ for electrical power conditioning,well seems odd...
Not saying your wrong,just saying that $1-$2000 could be spent elswear in my opinion.

[drummermitchell]

when I auditioned the Torus I was using Shunyata hydras and hydra 2's all on dedicated lines.
All amps were 7bsst's+4bsst's.
I can say you have no choice but to hear what the torus does for the music.
It's a major component upgrade.If I didnt need my other components and had a choice over one of those or the Torus,I'd take the Torus no questions asked.
I liked what it did for the music so much I went from a 15a to a 20a bal+a 60a bal.
As someone quoted once:you have discovered as I have that having gobs of power in reserve for the amps makes a huge difference.Shunyata,monster(I had both)don't even come close to the Torus.Unless Torus makes a major upgrade,I won't be selling these .
Sides, my 28's would be no happy.NO POWER NO HAPPY

[Levi]

Don't listen to this guy.  He doesn't know what he is talking about. 

Even if you get a 7BSST.  Your Totem model 1 will not reach 28HZ let a lone a Torus. 

The Totem model 1's are nice. The PMC speakers will feel more like a parallel move. You are asking for an upgrade. Your power isnt great so get a Torus or something in that caliber and try and make it a 240 volt.....This will feel like its an upgrade and not just a comparible change in sound.

[werd]

Well Werd
I have installed 8/20 & 1/30 amp recepticles in my room($200) and if I pay between $3-$6000 for a used(retail $9-$15,000)amp and have to spend another $2000+ for electrical power conditioning,well seems odd...
Not saying your wrong,just saying that $1-$2000 could be spent elswear in my opinion.

John

What drives all those outlets?. Its cool you have all those dedicated lines but where is the transformer that drives those outlets. Its outside and could be hundreds of feet down the street. With the Torus the outlets are like inches away from the transformer and on this side of the fusebox. Its what makes it so responsive and effortless with power recovery.  You gotta check it out... 

[werd]

Don't listen to this guy.  He doesn't know what he is talking about. 

Even if you get a 7BSST.  Your Totem model 1 will not reach 28HZ let a lone a Torus.

Levi the model 1's are what put totem on the map for monitor bass extension. Ok and he isnt getting that frequency response from his B100 anyways (well he might if he had good power recovery).

[Napalm]

What drives all those outlets?

This:



And if you would be living in a civilized area, there would be one or more of these buried on your street:



from which some really thick wires come into your house.

So WTF would an extra smallish transformer achieve?

Nap.

[mclsound]

John

What drives all those outlets?
Hey Werd
we put a 200amp service in...of which 40 go to the shop
john

[Diamond Dog]

I have some money put aside for upgrades and wanted to get your opinion on the best upgrade path. 
Thanks

Now look what you've started.....

 

D.

[Napalm]

Now look what you've started.....

 

D.

 

[audioman999]

to summarize the last several posts:

speakers vs power conditioner

One of the objectives of upgrading speakers was to get more bass than my Totem's.  I was under the impression that a speaker like the PMC FB1i (which has same low frequency stat as teh OB1i) would provide that.  I am curious to hear others thoughts on  wether that is more of a latteral move in terms of sound quality with a little extra bottom end versus a truly better speaker.  If a latteral move, than I would likely save up for the OB1i or other similar speaker and make due with a sub in the meantime.

With regards to the power conditioner it seems like it should improve the sound of the system regardless of what speakers or amp you have.  Have others demoed these before buying?  Also, is there more bang for the buck using them with larger speakers, more powerful amps etc that draw more current compared with smaller integrated with bookshelf speakers.   

How does Torus compare with Monster conditioners and others?  same level of difference as Bryston vs generic future shop amps?

Thanks

[skunark]

to summarize the last several posts:

speakers vs power conditioner

One of the objectives of upgrading speakers was to get more bass than my Totem's.  I was under the impression that a speaker like the PMC FB1i (which has same low frequency stat as teh OB1i) would provide that.  I am curious to hear others thoughts on  wether that is more of a latteral move in terms of sound quality with a little extra bottom end versus a truly better speaker.  If a latteral move, than I would likely save up for the OB1i or other similar speaker and make due with a sub in the meantime.

With regards to the power conditioner it seems like it should improve the sound of the system regardless of what speakers or amp you have.  Have others demoed these before buying?  Also, is there more bang for the buck using them with larger speakers, more powerful amps etc that draw more current compared with smaller integrated with bookshelf speakers.   

How does Torus compare with Monster conditioners and others?  same level of difference as Bryston vs generic future shop amps?

Thanks

Clearly a speaker that can hit the lower frequencies will be your best success.  Also having proper amplification will be just as important and something I've noticed going from a small to a large amplifier.   Typically I see products like the Torus as a good solution to reduce noise and isolate power.  Sure they tend to have large transformers that store power close to your source but that gain will be insignificant if the first two aren't addressed.   In other words, if you have the best amps and the cleanest power, it's still up to the those speakers to drive those lower notes.     Also the rotel piece is just a power bar like you said, but it's a great way to turn on your various sources.

[werd]

Clearly a speaker that can hit the lower frequencies will be your best success.  Also having proper amplification will be just as important and something I've noticed going from a small to a large amplifier.   Typically I see products like the Torus as a good solution to reduce noise and isolate power.  Sure they tend to have large transformers that store power close to your source but that gain will be insignificant if the first two aren't addressed.   In other words, if you have the best amps and the cleanest power, it's still up to the those speakers to drive those lower notes.     Also the rotel piece is just a power bar like you said, but it's a great way to turn on your various sources.

Hello

Not all power supplies are built equally. The Torus is an iso transformer design. Having the best amps isn't bad advice like you said. I can safely say  that my old 4Bsq outperformed my 120 watt Blue Circle 22 by every measure into the wall. Still own that BC22 btw. I can also safely say that the 4B could not keep up to my  BC22 amp when it was plugged into my Torus and the 4B into the wall. You could hear the 4B being held back. The BC 22 was outperforming my 4B just because it had a great power driving it.

[1ZIP]

to summarize the last several posts:

speakers vs power conditioner

One of the objectives of upgrading speakers was to get more bass than my Totem's.  I was under the impression that a speaker like the PMC FB1i (which has same low frequency stat as teh OB1i) would provide that.  I am curious to hear others thoughts on  wether that is more of a latteral move in terms of sound quality with a little extra bottom end versus a truly better speaker.  If a latteral move, than I would likely save up for the OB1i or other similar speaker and make due with a sub in the meantime.

With regards to the power conditioner it seems like it should improve the sound of the system regardless of what speakers or amp you have.  Have others demoed these before buying?  Also, is there more bang for the buck using them with larger speakers, more powerful amps etc that draw more current compared with smaller integrated with bookshelf speakers.   

How does Torus compare with Monster conditioners and others?  same level of difference as Bryston vs generic future shop amps?

Thanks

With regards to doing an in-home audition of the Torus, I did just that.  The bass tended to be a little tighter and overall the music was delivered more effortlessly.  As a friend commented, “....the music seems to come to you rather than having to lean into it and it just seems to be more relaxed.”  I did not find nor expect any deeper bass, my 805’s have only so much to give.  If I had the room size I’d have a pair of 803’s in a heartbeat.

Why a Torus rather than another manufacturer?  Because it is/was fundamentally a Bryston  product.  I have never been disappointed by any of their products and I have their amps, pre-amps, integrateds, CD player, IC’s and speaker cables.

Was the cost worth the sonic improvements?  For me it was a combination of improvements, protection features and more importantly I got a very good deal on a new unit... actually to good to pass up!

If your interested in PMC I’d also look at the GB1i’s.  If I could find a dealer in my area I would definitely audition them.

[werd]

Well Werd
I have installed 8/20 & 1/30 amp recepticles in my room($200) and if I pay between $3-$6000 for a used(retail $9-$15,000)amp and have to spend another $2000+ for electrical power conditioning,well seems odd...
Not saying your wrong,just saying that $1-$2000 could be spent elswear in my opinion.

Not all amps are designed to take power from the wall (even dedicated). I am sure some are. I know the newer Bryston 14/7B and up are better suited for wall use. I am just saying it would a great little tool for you since you go through lots of amps. Some would do fine out of the wall and some would need the power recovery..... thats all.

[Robert D]

This:



And if you would be living in a civilized area, there would be one or more of these buried on your street:



from which some really thick wires come into your house.

So WTF would an extra smallish transformer achieve?

Nap.

No this Buddy



Robert

[Robert D]

 B-52's - Rock Lobster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkkZLD20_rQ&feature=related

Enjoy !

Robert 

[Bugsy]

Hi mclsound

I have a Torus RM20 power conditioner which uses a 20 amp to 15 amp power cord from Torus. I did not want to renovate my house to put in a 240 amp circuit so I got the above model.

I started my search for a good power bar/conditioner that had good surge protection. As i read many different reports I found out that you did not want one with MOVs (metal oxide varistors) and Torus does not use these. Torus has one of the best protection systems in them.

Surge Suppression: Meets IEEE C62.41-1991: Series mode type; built to withstand 6000 volts, 3000 amps for 1000 repeats; with clamping voltage of 2 volts above peak nominal voltage.

It also totally isolate your audio/video system from the harsh AC power line noise. Noise Reduction: Performs as low pass filter, attenuating noise from 2kHz to 1mHz, with attenuation of 12 db/decade to 500 kHz.

Here is a link to Torus web site and check out this a pdf file

http://www.toruspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Torus-8-page-Dec-2010REV2.pdf

This conditioner did make an improvement in my system, the bass was tighter and more powerful, the amp (mine is now a 14bsst2) seems to glide on with very little effort. I have all my equipment plugged in to this conditioner as it has 10 outlets on the back: 14Bsst2, BP26, BCD-1, BDA-1, BDP-1, Sony XBR 46" TV, Panasonic DVD player,i nternet cable box and one USB drive.  Check out what this baby can do before you make any decisions,. See if you can get one on loan to try it.

Any way it is your money and enjoy all the input from all of us. 


Larry