[RCduck7]

Genjamon,
Here's a little background.  I've had the Horn/Vaughn Audio Carina SET amp combo for nearly 3 years, to include use of the Cube for a while (sold it for other things!). The Cube added low end, but seemed to do something I didnt like (integration) that, in my room and to my taste, seemed to detract from the Horn's strenghts.  For comparison, the Klipsch Forte I's had outstanding integrated bass and dynamics, but couldnt match the realness factor in the mids that the Horns projected (although it comes close with cap upgrades/replacement).  The Carina/Horn combo was wonderful, but I really needed bass,  and developed a feeling I needed a little more dynamics and extension as well.  Ed at the Hornshoppe always talked about playing his with lots of power, so I looked at more powerful, affordable options. While checking the Horn forum, as well the the Omega Speakers forum, I found a number of people who use the Ampino with single drivers.  I contacted the distributor who was out of Ampinos, but had a demo Ecstasy IIb at a great price!  I purchased and evaluated it with the Horns.  Lots of extension, but seemed a bit brighter and less 3D.  Tubes versus SS I suppose, and overall synergy.  The decision was made to get a larger speaker since I felt there was no substitute in my case for size.  Hence the Lore. Initial listening with the Carina sounded good, but nothing earthshattering, I proceeded to do some initial break-in of the Lores with the Dayens, then settled down to listen.  What I heard is what I described earlier!  Thinking it could get better I switched in the Carina, but couldnt completely re-create the sound of the Dayens/Lore combo. Back and forth listening showed the Carina to be smoother, but overall I liked the Dayens.  This is coming from 15 years of tubes! But I have to stress it really is a synergy issue, not the individual components (at least in my case).  I suspect a 5-10 watt Carina SET (as opposed to 1.5) would recreate the same thing
...but there is no such Carina!  There are little tradeoffs in anything, but this current combo accomplishes what I wanted, while keeping the essence of tubes, with improvements in some areas .  Now, the Ecstasy II is 70 watts versus your 25.  I dont know how much a difference that would make between the two models paired with the Lore, but I can say the Ecstasy works in my system in replacing an outstanding SET amp.

I have been looking with intrest to the Tekton Lore speakers and the Dayens amplifiers. It is nice to read that they make a great combo for you. Since you had tubes for years don't you miss anything? Maybe not, did you ever consider using a tube buffer on a solid state amp? I never had a tube amp in my house but it has my intrest, hence i would like to try a tube buffer myself on my solid state amp.

[Jazzaudio]

I have over 250 hours on the Lores, and have sold my Carina and Hornshoppes.  Great components and will always reccomend them to anyone.
Well, I didnt leave well enough alone! I made some tweaks that takes my Lores to the proverbial "another level."  I purchased some Evercoat sound deadening panels from the local NAPA auto store, and Mortite caulk rope and self-adhesive felt from the local True Value. Total cost about $34. Essentially, I
1) damped the inner cabinet walls above, behind, and to either side of the main drivers (behind the fiberglass)
2) damped the inside of the front baffle below, and to either side of, the tweeter
3)damped the center of the brace (on which the crossovers sit), as well as the underside of the brace directly below the crossovers
4) damped the outer sides of the legs of the main driver frames
5) damped the (much smaller) legs of the tweeter frames, and the center rear of the tweeter frames
6) placed self-stick felt on the inside of the legs of the main driver (facing the cone), as well as the rear of the tweeter frame/magnets
5) used Mortite caulk to fill and damp the space between the magnet and frames of the main drivers
6) damped the capacitors using small pieces of Herbie Audio Lab DB Neutralizer I had left over from other projects

The Results? Easily noticeable more dynamics, a bigger sound, and clarity (clarity that seems to extend backwards into the soundstage), with no change in tone, and noticeable greater sustained notes...and quicker ending of notes.  In my system and room its the equivalent of moving a few rows closer, without the peakiness effect.   Total time: about an 1 1/2 hours (includes cutting materiel, taking out and replacing the drivers, and just looking around!)
I did not go overboard on any of the dampening: Roughly 6"x6" pieces on the walls around the main driver, 2"x5" pieces on the front baffle and cross brace (with the cross brace pieces doubled-up), 1/2" x 1" pieces (dampener and felt) on the capacitors (no felt on the capacitors)and outer legs and inner legs of the main driver frame, 2.5"-3" square pieces of felt behind the tweeter magnet/frames, and small pieces just to fit the small legs of the tweeter frame.  The sizes are not exact...and I assume can be varied.  I thought about applying the full 12" sheets to the cabinets...but decided to be a bit measured.

[Jazzaudio]

Why the tweaks:
1) I've always damped amplifier chassis' and CDP capacitors with good results, and had good experiences damping Klipsch cabinets and horn throats
2) I saw multiple times on the net where people talked about damping the outside of driver frames to reduce resonances reaching the cones, and adding felt to the inside of those frames to minimize reflections to the cone.  The Lore's main driver frame is pretty solid and thick, and did not ring with the "flick" test, but I figured a small amount of dampening would not hurt.

After futher listening to several Duke Ellington orchestra and Wynton Marsalis playing chamber music recordings (and a fully warmed Dayens!) the Lore signature remains warm, but is significantly clearer in the space between instruments and voices.  Yes, a veil or two has been removed.  The presentation is more forward but, unlike the Horns, the whole performance(s) seems closer, as opposed to individuals or sounds jumping out. I'm trying to wrap my head around why it is more dynamic yet so balanced at the same time, and realize that much of the dynamics seems to come from the soundstage becoming much deeper and clearer.  I can localize everything based on sound throughout the stage/venue. Performers that are close miked still jump out, but sound even more 3D, as if I'm hearing around them. Go figure.
I can not ell exactly what tweak made the improvements, or to what degree. But without much time and money, an already great speaker really ups the ante.
RC, I'm not missing anything from not having tube amplification!  But I do have a tube output CDP (Jolida JD100). I think when I speak of synergy I have to include the connection between the Jolida and the Dayens, not just the Dayens and the Lores.  Tube rolling is easily heard now. Will the Dayens be my last amplification. I doubt it!  But for the price and performance it facilitates the sound I love about tubes in conjunction with the Lores and Jolida, with all the solid state goodies. Exactly how it does it I dont know!

[neobop]

Does this loudspeaker qualify as a full range speaker?

Is that an 18dB/octave filter for the tweeter?

It looks like a 10" Nirvana and an Audax tweeter. What frequency is the x-over? Does it have a low pass as well?

[Poultrygeist]

A cheaper option than Evercoat and Dynamat is Lowe's Peel and Stick. I recently helped sound proof a truck cab with the stuff.

With such large volume enclosures like the Lores and the Omens it's not easy to curb resonance. My smaller Frugal Horn cabs are acoustically dead in comparison to the ripe watermelon sound of the Omen cabs.

[Poultrygeist]

Here is a link to the Lore/Omen driver.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-495

[chrisby]

A cheaper option than Evercoat and Dynamat is Lowe's Peel and Stick. I recently helped sound proof a truck cab with the stuff.

With such large volume enclosures like the Lores and the Omens it's not easy to curb resonance. My smaller Frugal Horn cabs are acoustically dead in comparison to the ripe watermelon sound of the Omen cabs.

watermelon - I like that


another option to mass loading, etc for taming resonances is strategic bracing, but of course much harder to implement in finished enclosure without at least one removable panel

[roscoeiii]

Anyone know any good resources on mass loading?

Or a comparison of the options available for taming resonances? (hopefully with how-tos)

[neobop]

Anyone know any good resources on mass loading?

Or a comparison of the options available for taming resonances? (hopefully with how-tos)

AFAIK, it is usually done by ear, to taste.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/loudspeakerbuilder.ca/enclosures.html

If you're talking about cone resonances, that's a different story. In most cases I think there is an interaction between driver resonances and box excitation. Adding mass to a cone will effect T/S parameters. Parts Express has some black beauty paint made for speakers. It's called gloss something I think. It's said to not effect mass. It seems to help with driver break-up.
neo

[RCduck7]

RC, I'm not missing anything from not having tube amplification!  But I do have a tube output CDP (Jolida JD100). I think when I speak of synergy I have to include the connection between the Jolida and the Dayens, not just the Dayens and the Lores.  Tube rolling is easily heard now. Will the Dayens be my last amplification. I doubt it!  But for the price and performance it facilitates the sound I love about tubes in conjunction with the Lores and Jolida, with all the solid state goodies. Exactly how it does it I dont know!

I also have a tube cd player, a MHZS CD88G, still it is not your Jolida. But guess what i now only use it as a transport, my Metrum NOS DAC sounds better, more balanced and together. Do you have the oppurtunity to use the Dayens/Tekton match with an other CD player/DAC?? From my experience the speakers and amps have the most impact on how it sounds when you maka a change in the chain.

[efhjr]

I'm following this thread with great interest, because I'm very interested in the Tektons Lores.

Problem is, I'm wondering how much improvement I'll see over the tweaked Klipsch Cornwalls I've been using for the last ten years. Amps are McIntosh MC30s and MC2505.

Has anybody put the Lores up against some Cornwalls or similar speakers? I'm thinking I want to get away from horns for a while.

[genjamon]

I mentioned some thoughts about this on another thread, maybe the Audiogon one.  I don't have experience with the Cornwalls, but I had Lascalas for several years and my parents have Heresy's.  I'm fairly familiar with Klipsch Heritage sound. 

I would speculate that the Lores won't reach the level of dynamics as your Cornwalls, but they will likely have a more refined midrange and top end, with greater spatial separation and imaging, depth, and probably better tone as well.  Not sure how the bass would compare, as that's an area where Cornwalls are substantially different than the other Klipsch I have known.  This is all my speculation, so take it for what it's worth.  You should give them a trial run and then share with the rest of us!

[yeldarb]

My co-worker has a set of Cornwall 1, that have new titanium diaphrams in the tweeters and new phenolics in the mids.  Same old crossover, though.  My Lore's don't have the impact the Cornwalls have in the bass but I think they might be more accurate.  As far as the mids and highs, I've got him beat.

Might be different when he re-caps, but for now....

[efhjr]

My co-worker has a set of Cornwall 1, that have new titanium diaphrams in the tweeters and new phenolics in the mids.  Same old crossover, though.  My Lore's don't have the impact the Cornwalls have in the bass but I think they might be more accurate.  As far as the mids and highs, I've got him beat.

My Cornies have rebuilt tweeters, a fresh Crites crossover network, dampened cages, are wired with DNM cables, sit on Herbie's feet, and sound pretty darned good. And yes, they do make gobs of bass.

But I feel like I could do better. Timbres aren't as accurate as they could be with my sources, bass is a bit fuzzy, highs are tizzy, top-to-bottom and back-to-front imaging is not good at all. I've been listening to a lot of chamber music and 1950s jazz lately and accuracy is key for that kind of stuff, I think.

Still seriously thinking about trying some Lores. Thanks a lot for the input, folks -- keep it coming.

[genjamon]

I can't say with confidence anything about timbre, but you will not get fuzzy bass with the Lores, nor tizzy highs, and you will get much better imaging and depth with the Lores than the Cornwalls.  I have found playing with proximity to front wall can radically change bass quantity with the Lores.  Their initial positions were light in bass response, and I definitely needed subwoofer support.  Then I moved them closer to the wall, and the bass was there in spades.  It was too much and a little boomy/fuzzy, then I experimented and found the spot that was just right between the two locations.  The bass is clear and clean and articulate now, and has just the right weight.  No more subwoofer.  I feel like it represents what's on the recording now.  If the recording is a little "hot", tipped toward high frequencies, the bass is not that strong, then I switch to a song with strong bass, and it's all there.

The point is, you may need to play with positioning more than with the Cornwalls, but they are very resolving speakers, in a natural kind of way.

[efhjr]

I have found playing with proximity to front wall can radically change bass quantity with the Lores.  Their initial positions were light in bass response, and I definitely needed subwoofer support.  Then I moved them closer to the wall, and the bass was there in spades.

This is very good to know, genjamon. It just so happens that my Cornwalls are, wait for it, situated in a corner of two walls, so that would probably be a good location for a pair of Lores.

[genjamon]

I found the right spot in my 16 X 25 X 8ft room is with rear of speaker about 15" from front wall, and side of speaker about 17" from side wall, with maybe 15-20 degrees of toe-in.  Initially, they were about 20" from front wall, and I moved them as close as 6" from front wall.  I was surprised at the tremendous amount of bass response difference 5" makes between current and initial position.

[Jazzaudio]

efhjr,
I had a pair of Forte I's, with the Crites crossover as well as the new/updated tweeter/midrange diaphrams.  I did some mild dampening to the horns and cabinet, but used the standard wire Crites sent attached to the crossover network.  The result was the same dynamics with smoothness galore, less shout, and more clarity.  A temporary move before a change in residence forced their sale.  On the up side, it was the first time I recovered every penny I spent on a purchase and update (was fortunate to get them at a great deal locally from someone moving overseas).  I purchased the Hornshoppes while temporarily living in a smaller place..and also out of curiosity over single drivers.  The Hornshoppes were, most of the time, adequate in the bass department, but did not have the low end impact and dynamics of the Fortes.  What was beguiling about the Hornshoppes was the midrange and "rightness" (timbre?).  Soundstaging was a toss up.  The Horns seemed to project a wider soundstage, but the Fortes may have been deeper (a function of more dynamics in the low end?)

With the new residence I wanted to retain as much of what the Hornshoppes did right, but add the lower end and dynamics of the Fortes.  I believe I've achieved that with the Lore, but have not made a direct comparison between it and the updated Forte.  From memory, the Lores seem to have a little more low end impact and "rightness" (again, I think this is timbre).   The Fortes may have a little more presence in the midrange (similar to the Hornshoppes), but the Lores seems more natural in this area (although my recent dampening added more presence.)  The highs seem just about the same.   Dont know how helpful I've been...I like both!  I understand the Forte is different from what you have, so there are some similarities and difference (didnt Mr Klipsch have a pair of Fortes in his office?!)

[sebrof]

I'm following this thread with great interest, because I'm very interested in the Tektons Lores.

Problem is, I'm wondering how much improvement I'll see over the tweaked Klipsch Cornwalls I've been using for the last ten years. Amps are McIntosh MC30s and MC2505.

Has anybody put the Lores up against some Cornwalls or similar speakers? I'm thinking I want to get away from horns for a while.

Not sure how helpful this will be but here goes.
I had Klipschorns before I went the single driver route. I much prefer the Lores to the KHorns. There may be a slight drop off in the lowest of frequencies, but everything else is a lot better to me with the Lores.
I'm in a small room and that could have everything to do with it, not sure.

[zeke]

Did any Lore owners get any paperwork from Tekton when you received your speakers ?

I don't recall getting anything --- little strange not even one sheet of paper describing the speakers or their specs .......

they do sound great tho !

zeke