tekton design mini lore and lore.

Ultralight · « **Reply #60 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 02:45 pm »

Jazzaudio,

Nicely done photos!

Hope you are still following this thread. Quick question.

I see that you have a smaller, what looks like a 4" Fostex type single driver, along with the Lore. Quick question.

If you have time, I'd appreciate a favor. Can you try listening to them up near field - say about 4 feet. Yes, I know that this is very very close. With your ears right between the tweeter/driver, and your ear right as the height of the fostex, how does the imaging and soundstage compare to each other?

Thanks in advance for any help,
UL

genjamon · « **Reply #61 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 02:55 pm »

Good to hear of your experiences, Jazz, and thanks a bunch for the photos! I seem to have missed these posts while I was on vacation. I'm especially interested that you went from Hornshoppe Horns and are using the Dayens Ecstasy. I, too, went from Horns to the Lore (mine in a very nice walnut), and I have been using the Ampino with both. I fully echo your impressions of the change from the Horns and the quality of the Dayens combination.

I'm curious if you have heard the Ampino and could speak to what the Ecstasy brings to the equation beyond Ampino. I've been considering amp upgrades and not sure which direction. I have very little tube experience, and only inexpensive tubes thus far. Was considering experimenting with a nice tube amp, but now you have me second-guessing that idea. Maybe just moving up the chain with Dayens would be the right approach? Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone and work on clean power, room acoustics, etc. Decisions, decisions...

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #62 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 05:42 pm »

check out my post in this thread for info on how to tweak the Lores for much improved sound....real cheap.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94833.0

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #63 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 05:29 am »

Here are several pictures of the Lores in my rearranged room. My iniital postings showed the Lores occupying the same location as my Horns. I didnt like the catecorner arrangment, but the Horns sounded better in that location then on the long solid wall or corners. The rear horn mouth prevented the Horns from sounding good in the corners adjacent to the glass sliding doors (a sonic nightmare!) However, despite the twin sliding glass patio doors as the front wall the Lores, on the other hand, sound outstanding in that location. Definately benefit from front ports. The are positioned about about 15' apart and 24"-25" from the corners with toe-in, and resting with spikes on spare pieces of 3/4 inch thick solid oak flooring strips (finished side down to protect from the spike marks just in case I need to use the strips in the furture!) The bass is stupendous...deep, detailed, and natural sounding. The soundstage is wide, particularly with the spacing, with good depth that becomes very deep when I pull the speakers out another foot or so into the room. Everythings else (highs, tone, dynamics etc.) remains the same: excellent!

doug s. · « **Reply #64 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 05:33 am »

Quote from: Jazzaudio on 13 Jun 2011, 05:29 am

Here are several pictures of the Lores in my rearranged room. My iniital postings showed the Lores occupying the same location as my Horns. I didnt like the catecorner arrangment, but the Horns sounded better in that location then on the long solid wall or corners. The rear horn mouth prevented the Horns from sounding good in the corners adjacent to the glass sliding doors (a sonic nightmare!) However, despite the twin sliding glass patio doors as the front wall the Lores, on the other hand, sound outstanding in that location. Definately benefit from front ports. The are positioned about about 15' apart and 24"-25" from the corners with toe-in, and resting with spikes on spare pieces of 3/4 inch thick solid oak flooring strips (finished side down to protect from the spike marks just in case I need to use the strips in the furture!) The bass is stupendous...deep, detailed, and natural sounding. The soundstage is wide, particularly with the spacing, with good depth that becomes very deep when I pull the speakers out another foot or so into the room. Everythings else (highs, tone, dynamics etc.) remains the same: excellent!

try curtains!

doug s.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #65 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 05:47 am »

Thanks Doug! We actually have window treatments on order! Roller shades with a licker thickness and texture to address mid/high freqs. Genjamon and Ultralight, thanks. I'll answer your posts shortly!

JLM · « **Reply #66 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 12:08 pm »

We've been in the house we built for almost 6 years, and most of the windows still don't have treatments. But our back yard (and most of our windows) looks out onto almost a mile view of fields/woods (no neighbors).

I assume Jazzaudio has a similar situation with no privacy and a telescope.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #67 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 02:58 pm »

Jazz,

Enjoying your great pictures. I see that we both have Fostex BL horns and 10 inch Eminence based FR speakers. I read one AC member's opinion that the Lores better my Omens. That could very well be the case but I pre-ordered the Omens long before I knew anything about the Lores and I doubt I'll ever hear them side by side. I do love the Omen's big sound. I believe Alexander is at the top of his game in terms of speaker design quality. My 4.5 Tektons paired with the OB H-frames may be the best sounding set up I've got.

Don't know how your HS horns compare to the Frugal Mk3's but the Frugals need a little bass help if not corner loaded. The H-frames can do that as well.

I would guess that the Lores like the Omens have bottom end in spades.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #68 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 03:09 pm »

Tekton 4.5/OB H-frame set up.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #69 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 01:52 am »

Genjamon,
Here's a little background. I've had the Horn/Vaughn Audio Carina SET amp combo for nearly 3 years, to include use of the Cube for a while (sold it for other things!). The Cube added low end, but seemed to do something I didnt like (integration) that, in my room and to my taste, seemed to detract from the Horn's strenghts. For comparison, the Klipsch Forte I's had outstanding integrated bass and dynamics, but couldnt match the realness factor in the mids that the Horns projected (although it comes close with cap upgrades/replacement). The Carina/Horn combo was wonderful, but I really needed bass, and developed a feeling I needed a little more dynamics and extension as well. Ed at the Hornshoppe always talked about playing his with lots of power, so I looked at more powerful, affordable options. While checking the Horn forum, as well the the Omega Speakers forum, I found a number of people who use the Ampino with single drivers. I contacted the distributor who was out of Ampinos, but had a demo Ecstasy IIb at a great price! I purchased and evaluated it with the Horns. Lots of extension, but seemed a bit brighter and less 3D. Tubes versus SS I suppose, and overall synergy. The decision was made to get a larger speaker since I felt there was no substitute in my case for size. Hence the Lore. Initial listening with the Carina sounded good, but nothing earthshattering, I proceeded to do some initial break-in of the Lores with the Dayens, then settled down to listen. What I heard is what I described earlier! Thinking it could get better I switched in the Carina, but couldnt completely re-create the sound of the Dayens/Lore combo. Back and forth listening showed the Carina to be smoother, but overall I liked the Dayens. This is coming from 15 years of tubes! But I have to stress it really is a synergy issue, not the individual components (at least in my case). I suspect a 5-10 watt Carina SET (as opposed to 1.5) would recreate the same thing
...but there is no such Carina! There are little tradeoffs in anything, but this current combo accomplishes what I wanted, while keeping the essence of tubes, with improvements in some areas . Now, the Ecstasy II is 70 watts versus your 25. I dont know how much a difference that would make between the two models paired with the Lore, but I can say the Ecstasy works in my system in replacing an outstanding SET amp.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #70 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:01 am »

Ultralight,
I didnt have the chance to listen to the Horns that close...they are now sold! But the response from the Horns in my room varied greatly from standing/sitting and generally moving backwards/forward (without getting within 4 feet, of course!) Primarily the soundstage changed, but the tone varied a little also. In comparison, the Lore's soundstage and tone varies very little, if any, in my set-up within my room. The sweetspot is huge! I dont know if this is a function of the addition of a tweeter, the size of the main driver, or the whizzer on the main driver. But I can move around quite freely and retain the same sound character. And this is in a very "live" room (as you can see from the pictures)

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #71 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:14 am »

Poultry,

The Horns really needed to be corner loaded for bass. I did without it, and they actually werent too bad. But once you've heard deep bass in the past you began to crave it again overtime...at least I did. The Lores really do the bass well. I forgot how much information is in the lower freqs...and not just in bass instruments and voices! Everthing from piano keys striking wire (regardless of the note!), to movement on the piano stool, to a hand brushing against a guitar soundboard or body, all the rumble, density, and thickness generated by a room and its occupants or equipment shows up in the lower freqs. You feel the orchestra, the jazz club, the studio, the audience, the singer's throat muscle and chest moving. Well, maybe that that detailed but you get the point. I've always heard it described as the foundation of music. Yes, the Lores have it! I'm sure they are not exclusive in the trait, and may not do it completly. But with the combo of my amplification within my room, I've come a long way!

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #72 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:18 am »

JLM,

You're right! Our view is so nice we dont even want to mount window treatments. But I have to address that glass door front wall! Now, it doesnt appear to affect much of the music I hear, but I know those big 50 year old single-pane glass doors are reverbing or refracting a fair amount of mid and high bands.

drphoto · « **Reply #73 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:23 am »

Jazz, I love that room. Just beautiful. Kudos on the color combo.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #74 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:28 am »

Ric,

Thanks for the link. I'm glad I dont have to elaborate any more because the Lore owners nail the sound in their reviews. I did order mine with Sonicaps simply because I had experience with them and love what they do/dont do. The results you describe in your tweaks...did you actually hear them in the Lores? I'm pretty much inclined to leave well enough alone right now. I have to admit I was surprised with the "knuckle" test on the cabinet, and the resulting hollow ringing (The Horns were dead solid). Also, a quick peak through the ports showed generic JSC 18 gauge copper strand "automotive" wire. My Horns had solid core 18 gauge silver wire inside, and I've always used solid core (copper or silver) ICs and speaker wires. I assume addressing these will offer improvements...but the urge is not great now!

JLM · « **Reply #75 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 11:13 am »

Jazz,

Your observations on The Horns is spot on with mine (I've heard them several times in different settings). They are very fussy speakers to setup properly, are so low they "hide" behind furnishings, and of course almost no bass without corner help.

Bass is foundational (not optional) IMO. This willingness to do without is my biggest gripe with single driver fans. So many delude themselves into believing it doesn't exist or isn't important. I know it can be expensive to obtain (correctly) but an $800 sub can do wonders.

Not surprised by the cabinet build qualities (not uncommon for a box at this price). Its so deflating to find the bulk of material cost that goes into most speakers is the veneer.

sebrof · « **Reply #76 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 01:29 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 15 Jun 2011, 11:13 am

Bass is foundational (not optional) IMO. This willingness to do without is my biggest gripe with single driver fans. So many delude themselves into believing it doesn't exist or isn't important. I know it can be expensive to obtain (correctly) but an $800 sub can do wonders.

JLM - I'm not sure this applies for 8" or 10" single drivers, especially in a small room. I have both 8" and 10" in a 12' x 13' room, and bass is not lacking at all.
Just FYI

genjamon · « **Reply #77 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 04:01 pm »

Quote from: Jazzaudio on 15 Jun 2011, 01:52 am

Genjamon,
Here's a little background. I've had the Horn/Vaughn Audio Carina SET amp combo for nearly 3 years, to include use of the Cube for a while (sold it for other things!). The Cube added low end, but seemed to do something I didnt like (integration) that, in my room and to my taste, seemed to detract from the Horn's strenghts. For comparison, the Klipsch Forte I's had outstanding integrated bass and dynamics, but couldnt match the realness factor in the mids that the Horns projected (although it comes close with cap upgrades/replacement). The Carina/Horn combo was wonderful, but I really needed bass, and developed a feeling I needed a little more dynamics and extension as well. Ed at the Hornshoppe always talked about playing his with lots of power, so I looked at more powerful, affordable options. While checking the Horn forum, as well the the Omega Speakers forum, I found a number of people who use the Ampino with single drivers. I contacted the distributor who was out of Ampinos, but had a demo Ecstasy IIb at a great price! I purchased and evaluated it with the Horns. Lots of extension, but seemed a bit brighter and less 3D. Tubes versus SS I suppose, and overall synergy. The decision was made to get a larger speaker since I felt there was no substitute in my case for size. Hence the Lore. Initial listening with the Carina sounded good, but nothing earthshattering, I proceeded to do some initial break-in of the Lores with the Dayens, then settled down to listen. What I heard is what I described earlier! Thinking it could get better I switched in the Carina, but couldnt completely re-create the sound of the Dayens/Lore combo. Back and forth listening showed the Carina to be smoother, but overall I liked the Dayens. This is coming from 15 years of tubes! But I have to stress it really is a synergy issue, not the individual components (at least in my case). I suspect a 5-10 watt Carina SET (as opposed to 1.5) would recreate the same thing
...but there is no such Carina! There are little tradeoffs in anything, but this current combo accomplishes what I wanted, while keeping the essence of tubes, with improvements in some areas . Now, the Ecstasy II is 70 watts versus your 25. I dont know how much a difference that would make between the two models paired with the Lore, but I can say the Ecstasy works in my system in replacing an outstanding SET amp.

Thanks very much for this, Jazz. It is very helpful to hear your comparative experiences with the Carina and Dayens. I know the Carina is a very special amp, so this is valuable comparison, always keeping in mind the system synergy issue, of course. Interesting bit of my background, I went from Klipsch Lascala to Horns a number of years ago, and I agree totally about the Hornshoppe midrange coherence beguiling me into accepting lesser dynamics and concern about bass. Although, the Lascala's also needed bass support, as they didn't go all the way down like I know the Forte's do. And I also had a cube for a time, but agree with you on the integration thing. I found a Dayton Titanic 12, then a 15, and then an AV123 MFW-15 to be sequential improvements in bass support to the Horns.

In the past couple years, I returned to the Horns from a detour with Tyler Acoustics. Went with the cheap and simple Miniwatt S1 after selling Wyred monoblocks due to all the rave reviews, but I wanted a bit more power after a while. This is what led to my interest in the Ampino. I did finally try it last fall, and I felt it really opened the Horns up. I'm not sure if this might be a signficant difference, but I also use Ed Schilling's The Truth pre-buffer. This might have been a system synergy element improving my experience with the Dayens/Horn combination over what you experienced.

Still, I guess I was interested in trying something new with potential for more. I've always thought I wasn't getting full extension in the highs with the Horns, not that I want crystalline highs, but you know, it's just one of those compromises of a single driver speaker... I also didn't want to go with the awkward supertweeter on top of speaker approach. The Lores seemed like they could really solve all my problems if people were being honest with their impressions.

I'm quite happy that they weren't overexaggerating. The Lores definitely do the frequency extension thing, with refinement and nuance, with better sense of space and depth, larger soundstage, and great tone, and only very modest losses in coherency compared with the Horns.

As for moving from Ampino to Ecstacy, I've read online (I believe on the Dayens website, or maybe someone on Audiocircle quoting a Dayens rep) that Dayens considers Menuetto and Ecstacy to be sequential improvements in performance. My impression from their descriptions is that Ampino is the liveliest and least tonally rich. I believe it is Wilsynet who has a review of the Menuetto on the review circle where he compares to Ampino in one of his final posts. He claims it's an improvement over Ampino in every dimension. I'm just curious how much of an improvement. As always, it's a matter of tradeoffs. Do I put money into improved amplification and keep my existing cables, or would improving cabling do what I want?

Basically, I feel like I'm on the cusp of the next level of refinement, and I'm confident the Lores can take me there. But there are several different directions to choose from.

Ah well, I'll sort out something. Thanks for patience in enduring my rant, and thanks also for sharing.

RCduck7 · « **Reply #78 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 10 Jun 2011, 05:42 pm

check out my post in this thread for info on how to tweak the Lores for much improved sound....real cheap.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94833.0

How does it look? Can you post picture(s)?

JLM · « **Reply #79 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: sebrof on 15 Jun 2011, 01:29 pm

JLM - I'm not sure this applies for 8" or 10" single drivers, especially in a small room. I have both 8" and 10" in a 12' x 13' room, and bass is not lacking at all.
Just FYI

Thanks to Zu, Tekton, and their customers like you for not falling into the wimpy bass trap.