tekton design mini lore and lore.

genjamon · « **Reply #120 on:** 7 Jul 2011, 03:49 pm »

Yeah, I use the Truth. I have the Ampino about 3/4 of the way fully open - it's about matching gain properly with the Truth. The Truth is a buffer, not a preamp, and the Truth volume control doesn't take the volume all the way to zero. When I'm really cranking the tunes, I move the Ampino to fully open, and when I want some very quiet background music, I need to turn the Ampino down to about 50% to get the right volume with the Truth's minimum pass-through.

I'm not sure my volume control settings are fully optimal, and I have been meaning to call Ed to discuss for quite some time. I may need to send to him for some tweaking the volume mgmt to get it right.

As for the sound, I originally found the Truth to improve the sound in every way possible. According to Ed, it has really really high input impedance and really really low output impedance. This would, of course, benefit all sources and amps connected to it, making them not have to work at all to convey the signal. I found even with my crappy TV output that it improved the sound markedly. With my Tranquility SE, it took things from great to amazing.

Of course, this transition happened with a Miniwatt driving his Hornshoppe Horns. Now I have Ampino and Lores. I do think I have some more experimenting to do. I had some cables in recently, and in some of my swapping around I tried the Tranquility SE direct to the Ampino. The sound did seem to have more detail with the direct connection, but the sound had much better drive and tonal balance through the Truth. The drive certainly makes sense, but I remember getting so so much more detail when I first inserted the Truth into my system last year, and I want to try again with some more experimenting on this front now that I've settled on my cable choices and have run them in for a while.

So, I guess the short answer is that the Truth gives great drive and substance to the music. Everyone on Ed's forum claims it is utterly transparent, and I would have unhesitatingly said so as well until very recently. But again, this is a very tentative question of mine about the transparency angle, requiring more experimentation to be confident there is something going on there and to be able to describe it confidently in any way. If my recent impressions are at all accurate, I would say the Truth provides greater drive, tonal balance (due to better bass drive), and substance, while perhaps reducing the level of detail. It might help if you think the Ampino is bright sounding. But again, I was playing with different cables at the time (silver coated copper) and now am using all copper. YMMV

genjamon · « **Reply #121 on:** 7 Jul 2011, 03:54 pm »

Oh yeah, one more thing I might venture to say is that I had a pretty hard time discerning differences between the cables I was trying. I had to listen pretty hard. I have not had as difficult a time in past experiences, and I suspect that the Truth significantly reduces the impacts of cables on the overall sound.

My Truth configuration has two outputs, and I had two different cables going to the two inputs on the Ampino, allowing me to toggle instantly between cables going between Truth and Ampino without having to swap. It was pretty hard for me to tell differences there. It was much easier to tell differences between Tranquility SE and Truth, but there I did have to swap cables.

Always interesting to see how something that makes a big difference in one part of the system, or in one room, or with one set of speakers, or whatever, can make little to no difference if any or all of those variables have changed. In my opinion, it's one of the factors that will always keep us audiophools guessing and investing in new system tweaks and equipment. There is no right answer, unfortunately.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #122 on:** 7 Jul 2011, 05:40 pm »

Thanks Genjamon,

I asked because I have an opportunity to purchase one now. I've always followed the conversation about The Truth, but didn't want to bypass the Carina's volume control. However, your tentative evaluation about detail went to the heart of my concern. I'm achieving some of the most natural detail I've heard in my systems over the years, and don't want to alter that at all. I've never heard the Ampino, read limited feedback on the Menuetto, and found even less info on the Ecstasy II. Compared to the Carina, the Ecstasy is slightly warmer yet more detailed, with the detail seemingly more balanced (this hearing the Ecstasy with both the Horns and the Lore). Along with 3D imaging and tone, it seems I'm already hearing the main attributes of the Truth in my system...but am still tempted. However, the money police in the family is issuing a restraining order!

RCduck7 · « **Reply #123 on:** 7 Jul 2011, 11:31 pm »

If there was one amp i would compare one of the Dayens amps to, it is one of those Bada Hybrid designs, like the Bada DC-222 for instance or maybe a Bada Purer. That is one amp that lingers in my mind to try next to the Dayens.

On the inside the DC-222 looks nice to...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_PjhUW1Ebg

JLM · « **Reply #124 on:** 8 Jul 2011, 09:16 pm »

Continuing off topic...

As I understand, the Bada DC-222 is a knock off of the Vincent Audio SV-226 (German designed, also built in China). BTW Vincent has some other nice pre/power/integrated amps. Another look alike is the Shengya A-80CS.

Yet another good integrated option in that wattage/price is the Redgum Sonofagum.

genjamon · « **Reply #125 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: genjamon on 7 Jul 2011, 03:49 pm

So, I guess the short answer is that the Truth gives great drive and substance to the music. Everyone on Ed's forum claims it is utterly transparent, and I would have unhesitatingly said so as well until very recently. But again, this is a very tentative question of mine about the transparency angle, requiring more experimentation to be confident there is something going on there and to be able to describe it confidently in any way. If my recent impressions are at all accurate, I would say the Truth provides greater drive, tonal balance (due to better bass drive), and substance, while perhaps reducing the level of detail. It might help if you think the Ampino is bright sounding. But again, I was playing with different cables at the time (silver coated copper) and now am using all copper. YMMV

Ok, apologies for continuing off-topic, but I feel the need to conclude my comments about the issue rather than leaving them hanging without resolution. Prompted by the discussion, earlier this week I went direct between Tranquility and Ampino to try that out for a spell. I immediately seemed to notice some additional air and 3D resolution compared with having the Truth in the system. There was also a loss of bass weight. Just as I remembered from the earlier cable-testing experiences.

Today with the house to myself I spent a couple hours going through a buncn of my favorite tracks for careful listening and just general enjoyment. I can say that it seemed there was still greater 3d resolution and air than what I have become used to with the Truth in my system over the past year or so. However, as the listening session move along, the bass weight issue seemed to become more of a liability, and I began to suspect that I wasn't so much hearing greater resolution, but rather a greater emphasis on leading edges of notes. I finally ended up with some great driving rock, and I just couldn't get into it. I was suffering some listening fatigue, and the music just didn't have the drive it needed without that bass weight and drive.

I swapped cables to pull the Truth back into the equation. Listened to a half dozen tunes I had just been listening to. I am now confident that the Truth may be reducing resolution a little bit, but it's a very, very little in my opinion. In exchange, it adds significant bass drive, and I also think I hear a better PRAT with the Truth. Finally, I think the Truth gives instruments more body and tone. I would say that the direct Ampino vs. Truth +Ampino arrangement is analogous to silver vs. copper interconnects. However, I would say that the effect is more substantial than any interconnect I have experienced in the past.

Based on this, I have concluded I need and want the Truth in the equation in this current system. I bought my Ampino last October from Cryoparts. It has the Mundorf caps, but I'm not sure what kind of volume pot it's using. If it doesn't have the newest Alps pot, maybe that would help things. Or maybe the Menuetto and Ecstacy are warmer than Ampino, and that could help. These variables may impact the emphasis on leading edge of notes that leads over time to listening fatigue and a sense of brightness. Still, I think having that buffer in there definitely adds to musical drive in an important way.

Ok, I hope this has been helpful, and I will now let the thread go along on track. I'm a huge fan of my Lores, and I don't want to detract from any additional commentary on their sound. If anybody wants me to clarify anything, please PM me from here on.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #126 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 07:57 pm »

Genjamon,

Your experience reminds me a lot of my own experiences with passive vs. active preamps. Passive may have an edge in detail, but bass and PRaT tend to suffer in my experience.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #127 on:** 11 Jul 2011, 12:07 am »

I'm sure the Bada DC222 doesn't compare to the Dayens as the one I owned and sold couldn't hold a candle to my Miniwatt.

AudioSoul · « **Reply #128 on:** 11 Jul 2011, 05:04 pm »

Hey guy's this is not the amplifier circle. It is a dedicated to the the Tekton Lore and mini-Lore. Go start your own thread somewhere else.........

roscoeiii · « **Reply #129 on:** 11 Jul 2011, 05:18 pm »

C'mon Audiosoul,

Synergy between speakers and amps is so important that it seems foolish to not discuss the two together. And the amps being discussed are obvious contenders for the Lores. And they are being recommended or evaluated by AC members who either have Lores or speakers of similar design.

Without considering synergy (power, circuit design, damping factor, impedance etc) you're likely to have poor choices made, money and time wasted and a poor idea of what the Lores or any other speaker are capable of.

AudioSoul · « **Reply #130 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 04:04 pm »

OK, your right. Point well taken. I just thought the thread was getting a little to much on the amp side and little on the speaker side. I am interested in the Lores so maybe I am biased....

chrisby · « **Reply #131 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: AudioSoul on 12 Jul 2011, 04:04 pm

OK, your right. Point well taken. I just thought the thread was getting a little to much on the amp side and little on the speaker side. I am interested in the Lores so maybe I am biased....

I think this just shows how blurry the lines can be as to what (combination of ) components make a system work (or not) for any given individual - not unlike exactly what constitutes a "full-range" speaker system, and even if your definition allow for assistance at either end, how far up/down the spectrum can you slide the XO point for a "helper" woofer or tweeter before it really isn't one anymore?

oskar · « **Reply #132 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 05:38 pm »

Hi, I'm getting very interested in these speakers. I don't need a 'professional' review. You are all professional in my view and reading through and between the lines they almost seem like a no-brainer. Wanted to go the DIY ob route for my next speaks but I can't afford the real estate; minimum 3' out from the wall so... Nevertheless, shipping and duty to Canada will bring them almost to the $1.5k mark. Just do-able for me. Wondering if anyone using them with Virtue or Glow 1 amps?
Thanks

roscoeiii · « **Reply #133 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 06:04 pm »

I have used similar speaker designs (10+in full range with supertweeter help, in DIY speakers and Zu Superflys) with great success with the MiniWatt amps, which some seem to prefer to the Glows.

oskar · « **Reply #134 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 10:50 pm »

Thanks roscoeiii. I did have the Miniwatts on my radar too. I have the battery supply on it's way for my Sensation 901. I am leaning heavily toward FR high sensitivity speaks and batteries are highly recommended with this amp. But... I really want to hear this magic of what good tube flea amps can do with high sens speakers. The price of admission seems so low that I'd like to get me a taste of it. For now the Lores are at the top of my list.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #135 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 02:19 am »

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1313248163&/Dared-New-Mp-2a3c-Int-amp--Bea

I would think this Dared 2a3c would be a splendid match for the Lores. It certainly is with the Zu Omens. When compared to the Dared, the Miniwatt S1 struggles a bit, coming off slightly thin sounding in the end and falling behind in headroom. If your room is medium to large, a 3/4 turn of the MW pot may be needed for the Lores to play loud.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the giant killing Miniwatt for over two years now and it will always be rotated in the mix with my full rangers. I currently use it to power some Tang Band W8-1808 OB's over Alpha H frames which may be the best sounding system I own.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #136 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 02:42 am »

Yeah, I think that the Miniwatt N3 would be the better match with Lores. I have a 2A3/45 amp that has also been great with my speakers. In a bigger room 2A3s were preferable. In a smaller space, the 45s were divine.

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #137 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 02:45 am »

I think I'm the person who may have started the amplifier tangent

, but only to put the Lore sound in context. Synergy. I cant vouch for how the Lore may sound with an amplifier I've haven't heard (let alone one not heard with the Lore), but I can speak about how they sound compared to other speakers I've heard through the same amplification, in the same room, with the same source and cables.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #138 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 12:43 pm »

While I understand the importance of system synergy I couldn't agree more with the generalization Steve Deckert makes in one of his audio papers which seems pertinent for anyone considering an amp and Lore purchase.

"A good SET amp combined with a single full range driver with no crossover or a simple 2-way using minimal crossover parts on the tweeter only, has a purity and depth that you simply don't find in more conventional systems. It is a benchmark for coherency, and noted for its ability to create hauntingly real holographic sound stage. Bass and dynamics with this combination sound more realistic in part from the tremendous speed and in part from the coherency."

oskar · « **Reply #139 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 02:25 pm »

Hmmm... this is really wetting my appetite. thanks Poultrygeist for pointing at the Dared. I wonder if the seller is the same guy that sells on ebay, probably. The pics look identical. Now the Lores - who is using the miniLore? Is the sound signature much the same? Specs are similar tho they give up a bit in the bass. I wonder if the smaller driver does the same soundstage thing as big brother.