A new suggestion for vinyl newbies................

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #80 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 09:39 pm »

Wayner,

I'm with you ALL the way on this one...it's a great service for you to find a fine playing starter table for reasonable money for newbies.

Avoiding blanket statements if I can

, by and large, newbies are just that - and need to sink their teeth into something decent, and cheap to begin. There are far too many shipping mishaps with used gear for newbies. Even if you are proficient in soldering (as a newbie)...you cannot machine a new platter, bearing or should need to install and new arm.

These are three things that have come in irreparably damaged to me buying used over time. I persevered as I have a long history playing with turntables (and I'm also bullheaded - ha!) so I wasn't distraught over it.

But, the VAST majority of newbies, confused as they are by the involved process for getting vinyl right - would be.

Have you tried the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 Improved from Alex Atelier? http://www.elexatelier.com/AT_PL120Improved.htm

Or, just the AT-PL120 if you're going to attach a Longhorned Grado to it as a service or add-on sale.

At least it's been given the once over a dealer who is well acquainted with vinyl playback (the Improved version, at least). It literally would be plug in and play as it has a built in phono preamp (to be avoided at some point in the future and upgraded, of course). But, it seems to have all the ticking points to recommend to a newbie...and shouldn't hum with Grado's.

The final proof is listening to it of course (as you've found

)

Thanks for your stellar efforts on this

John

HalSF · « **Reply #81 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: DustyC on 15 Sep 2010, 08:57 pm

If I was advising a newbie on a table I would suggest a visiting a dealer first. Find a 'table/arm and a cartridge that fits the budget and let the dealer set it up. Get a good record cleaning system going that fits your obsessiveness level.
Start buying records. Still interested after 6 months to a year? Fine, come back to me or a vinyl loving friend and let them guide you from there.
A beginner buying a used Linn, VPI, SOTA, is just asking for trouble.
PAY the dealer for your first pain free exposure. You'll be a lot happier.

DustyC, that’s some good advice. Especially the record-cleaning part; playing spic-and-span grooves is the only way to let your gear shine, especially if you’re buying used records (and given the price of new vinyl, that’s almost mandatory). Beyond that, surrendering to a little imperfection is good for the audiophile soul, so often tormented by the anxious pursuit of psychedelic microdynamics and visionary transparency. Spending some time with college kids exploring vinyl and watching them find magic via the most atrocious gear imaginable helps to put things in perspective too.

Wayner · « **Reply #82 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 11:11 pm »

Thank you John!

I just finished listening to about an hour and 1/2 of vinyl on my (newish) Technics SL1200MK2 with an Audio Technica AT440MLa. I just don't know how it can get much better.

If you are going to demo vinyl at RMAF, this table and cart combo will blow most systems away, period.

There you go newbies, buy this combo and you will be deep into vinyl bliss. I forgot about the table and was just simply listening to music. This is what should happen, when it comes to listening to any music in any format. The machine is gone from the music experience.

Wayner

rcag_ils · « **Reply #83 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 11:11 pm »

How about this, newbies, start listening to cassette tapes, I am not kidding.

pay some vinyl experts to transfer the vinyl music to cassette tape and get a, well,

used cassette player, like a Pioneer CF-9191, and get rolling. Hell, it's analog, and you wouldn't have to worry about shattered plinth, and cheap new turntables.

Sonix · « **Reply #84 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 06:50 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 15 Sep 2010, 11:11 pm

Thank you John!

I just finished listening to about an hour and 1/2 of vinyl on my (newish) Technics SL1200MK2 with an Audio Technica AT440MLa. I just don't know how it can get much better.

If you are going to demo vinyl at RMAF, this table and cart combo will blow most systems away, period.

There you go newbies, buy this combo and you will be deep into vinyl bliss. I forgot about the table and was just simply listening to music. This is what should happen, when it comes to listening to any music in any format. The machine is gone from the music experience.

Wayner

Hi Wayner,

You've been giving me the itch to get back into vinyl again.

I used to have a Mitsubishi LT-20. What's your feedback on this TT?

Regards,
Ken

Mark Korda · « **Reply #85 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 07:09 am »

I've been reading this silly argument because you both forgot that a lot of(old-bees) stored their turntables away for another day,may be in a closet,like me.I think if thats the stuff going on I would like to have all you folks come together and share your secrets on how to give em an oil change or something.....Mark Korda?

dlparker · « **Reply #86 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 07:42 am »

Quote from: Mark Korda on 16 Sep 2010, 07:09 am

I've been reading this silly argument because you both forgot that a lot of(old-bees) stored their turntables away for another day,may be in a closet,like me.I think if thats the stuff going on I would like to have all you folks come together and share your secrets on how to give em an oil change or something.....Mark Korda?

THANK YOU MARK! That's exactly where I am. I've got +/- 30 year old TT technology (Denon/Grado) that I very recently plugged into my very first AVA acquisitions (PAT5/FETII, Omega III 260). After spending the last 30-35 (or more) years or so like a little kid with his lower lip sticking out, standing outside the storefront and looking in the window, I finally bought some used AVA stuff from Frank and I was amazed. Even with my +/- 30 year-old HH Scott Model 66s it's wonderful.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #87 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 02:27 pm »

Quote

I've been reading this silly argument because you both forgot that a lot of(old-bees) stored their turntables away for another day,may be in a closet,like me.

That all depends on what's in your closet, some of them may not be worth an oil change.

AlexG · « **Reply #88 on:** 17 Sep 2010, 12:41 am »

Wayne,

Long time (last year?) no talk...great thread like always.

Quote

I just finished listening to about an hour and 1/2 of vinyl on my (newish) Technics SL1200MK2 with an Audio Technica AT440MLa. I just don't know how it can get much better.

If you are going to demo vinyl at RMAF, this table and cart combo will blow most systems away, period.

You will have to spend a lot more money to beat a SL-1200MK2 with a current AT440Mla or older AT155LC/AT160ML or even a current AT120E (very musical) .. not to mention many MC cartridges as long as they are not to low in compliance and extra heavy mass.

Thats exactly what we are doing this year for the show. We are taking (instead of a VPI) a SL 1210MK2 (black), the only change I did was replace the tonearm wiring with Cardas and add the RCA junction box in the back (KAB), and some minor cosmetic changes for looks. The sound coming out of this table is short of incredible

I just added some pictures of this table in my gallery.

See you at the show if you are going this year.

All the best,
Alex

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #89 on:** 17 Sep 2010, 12:52 am »

Quote from: DustyC on 15 Sep 2010, 08:57 pm

A beginner buying a used Linn, VPI, SOTA, is just asking for trouble.
PAY the dealer for your first pain free exposure. You'll be a lot happier.

Agreed totally. A refurbished SOTA purchased from SOTA is a different kettle of fish entirely. If they aren't shipped correctly in the original box and packing material, trouble can be pretty much guaranteed,

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #90 on:** 18 Sep 2010, 02:52 am »

Quote from: DustyC on 15 Sep 2010, 08:57 pm

If I was advising a newbie on a table I would suggest a visiting a dealer first. Find a 'table/arm and a cartridge that fits the budget and let the dealer set it up. Get a good record cleaning system going that fits your obsessiveness level.
Start buying records. Still interested after 6 months to a year? Fine, come back to me or a vinyl loving friend and let them guide you from there.
A beginner buying a used Linn, VPI, SOTA, is just asking for trouble.
PAY the dealer for your first pain free exposure. You'll be a lot happier.

This is what I was thinking while reading this thread. When I was new to record playing I was 2 years old watching my Dad place his Grado down on Dorati conducting the 1812 overture. By the time I was 8 I had a plastic POS record player with ceramic flip cart, by 13 a semi-automatic Technics DD table and by 17 my Systemdek IIX. The Technics DD was as plug and play as they came with an Audio Technica cart. It sounded it. The Systemdek with Grado cart was a jump forward that my Onkyo receiver even made clear. The Systemdek came from a dealer who's store I hung around and was set up by him. Then was driven home and set up as per his instructions. This progression no longer takes place. I am lucky to still have that shop and 3 others in my area that sell and can set up a TT. This is not the case in for many, sad to say, the independent Hifi shops have dwindled. Perhaps joining an audio club would offer an ample substitute?

Neal

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #91 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 05:07 pm »

Wayner,

I love spending your money

- new prospects for new tables for newbies that look encouraging:

Vestax, belt drive, DC Servo motor (no hum interaction with Grados) for $399.00: http://www.needledoctor.com/Vestax-Turntable-BDT-2600?sc=2&category=356

Stanton, direct drive, oversized 13" platter a nice feature for $499.00: http://www.needledoctor.com/Stanton-Turntable-ST-150?sc=2&category=354

Stanton, direct drive, built in phono preamp, weighs 20lbs for $299.00: http://www.needledoctor.com/Stanton-T-92-USB-Turntable?sc=2&category=354

These three seem to have a little heft to them and appear to be competent

Can I spend some more of your money now?

John

Wayner · « **Reply #92 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 05:23 pm »

Thank you John! The Stanton ST150 is DD, and the arm even has VTA adjustment. This looks like an incredible machine for the money. I think I will get one in here. I have to give you a tip of the cap, sir!

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #93 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 24 Sep 2010, 05:23 pm

Thank you John! The Stanton ST150 is DD, and the arm even has VTA adjustment. This looks like an incredible machine for the money. I think I will get one in here. I have to give you a tip of the cap, sir!

Wayner

I hope it turns out to be stellar...I TOTALLY share with you the opinion that a good, new table is the best option for the largest swath of newbies getting into or back into vinyl

Without competent, trouble free, new, easy-to-use tables - this vinyl 'resurgence' we're experiencing is sure to die without attracting new and returning to the fold

John

turkey · « **Reply #94 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 06:49 pm »

The A-T LP-120-USB doesn't look too bad, and it comes with phono-preamp and USB connection if you want to use that. It also will drive an external phono preamp (which is how most people here would probably use it).

I'm not sure how it differs from the A-T PL-120 that TCG mentioned earlier. They look rather similar. I see the LP-120 selling for about $210 on the web.

Wayner · « **Reply #95 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 07:52 pm »

I've been eyeing up the AT, too. Thanks Turkey.

Wayner

Mitsuman · « **Reply #96 on:** 9 Oct 2010, 02:16 am »

Quote from: Sonix on 16 Sep 2010, 06:50 am

Hi Wayner,

You've been giving me the itch to get back into vinyl again.

I used to have a Mitsubishi LT-20. What's your feedback on this TT?

Regards,
Ken

Very nice deck, not as good as the LT-30 but I'd put it up against most tables today costing as much as $1000 if it's been well maintained and in good working order.

jrtrent · « **Reply #97 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 12:42 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Sep 2010, 11:02 pm

I just finished packing away the brand new Pro-ject Debut III, going back to the seller. I can't recommend this table to anyone, even tho Mr. Fremer did. This baby is another POS, IMHO.

Mr. Fremer recommends it, and so does Robert Reina of Stereophile. A local dealer has sold a bunch of these to very satisfied customers. I don't doubt anything you've written about your experience, but it seems you might have a dealer issue as well as a product issue. Any company can produce a sub-par unit, but the dealer should recognize that and make sure he sets up and delivers a properly functioning turntable, or, if bought mail-order, the importer should make it right--it does come with a warranty.

turkey · « **Reply #98 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 12:54 pm »

Quote from: jrtrent on 15 Oct 2010, 12:42 pm

Mr. Fremer recommends it, and so does Robert Reina of Stereophile. A local dealer has sold a bunch of these to very satisfied customers. I don't doubt anything you've written about your experience, but it seems you might have a dealer issue as well as a product issue. Any company can produce a sub-par unit, but the dealer should recognize that and make sure he sets up and delivers a properly functioning turntable, or, if bought mail-order, the importer should make it right--it does come with a warranty.

I thought it was pretty clear that many of the issues were design issues.

Also, I find Wayner to be far more believable than everyone at Stereophile put together.

Delta Wave · « **Reply #99 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 02:48 pm »

How about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Crosley-CR6002A-BK-Revolution-Portable-Turntable/dp/B003U8CI9A/ref=sr_1_28?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1287154037&sr=1-28