[jhm731]

Is this the $14K ML3?



Are there pictures of it craping on the ML-1s?

How does it compare to another 2-way 8" speaker from Australia, the Event Opal?

[Rocket]

Hi Bill,

I hope that you aren't having to spend all your hard earned cash on all these dacs  .

I'm still using my perpetual technologies p3a (modwright mods) dac with provides me with good results.  I'm sure that there are better dacs but I'm done at the moment buying hifi gear.

Have you now settled on the dac that you are going to keep?  I'm pretty useless at listening and comparing gear because by the time I remove a component and then replace it I seem to have forgotten what it sounds like .

Regards

Rod

[bhobba]

Is this the $14K ML3?

Yes

Are there pictures of it craping on the ML-1s?

No - I did that in the Thunderbox out the back while Mike read the last rites.  And if you don't know what a Thunderbox is you need to spend a bit of time with us here is beautiful Aus and partake of a few cold ones around a barbie while working your way up to our standard tipple - Grange.

How does it compare to another 2-way 8" speaker from Australia, the Event Opal?

Obviously can't say without a listen.  But I can say the ML3's are simply the best speaker I have ever heard and they are flat to 25hz.  I doubt a bookshelf's could compete.  And they have a midrange like Quad Electrostatics.

Actually I may be able to say something.  These are studio monitors.  I was with Mike today checking out the Tranquility (it had just arrived) and a pro audio guy rang.  He was just down at a pro audio store checking out some pro audio monitors.  He listened to a few - some quite a good deal more expensive than ML1's.  He uses ML1's for his studio monitoring and is actually quite scathing of the quality of studio monitors other sound engineers use.  After listening to what the store had to offer - he said - they are not even in the ballpark of the ML1's.  Hopefully this does not apply to those speakers.  Mike lines his speakers with steel and applies other tricks to make them even more dead.  They let go of notes like no other speaker I know. 

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I hope that you aren't having to spend all your hard earned cash on all these dacs  . I'm still using my perpetual technologies p3a (modwright mods) dac with provides me with good results.  I'm sure that there are better dacs but I'm done at the moment buying hifi gear. Have you now settled on the dac that you are going to keep?  I'm pretty useless at listening and comparing gear because by the time I remove a component and then replace it I seem to have forgotten what it sounds like .

Hi Rod

Haven't settled yet.  This is what this investigation is all about.  The WFS didn't quite do it for me.  My initial listen to the Tranquility (it just arrived) shows, to my ears at least, and improvement over the WFS.

Thanks
Bill

[jhm731]

Obviously can't say without a listen.  But I can say the ML3's are simply the best speaker I have ever heard and they are flat to 25hz.  I doubt a bookshelf's could compete.  And they have a midrange like Quad Electrostatics.

Actually I may be able to say something.  These are studio monitors.  I was with Mike today checking out the Tranquility (it had just arrived) and a pro audio guy rang.  He was just down at a pro audio store checking out some pro audio monitors.  He listened to a few - some quite a good deal more expensive than ML1's.  He uses ML1's for his studio monitoring and is actually quite scathing of the quality of studio monitors other sound engineers use.  After listening to what the store had to offer - he said - they are not even in the ballpark of the ML1's.  Hopefully this does not apply to those speakers.  Mike lines his speakers with steel and applies other tricks to make them even more dead.  They let go of notes like no other speaker I know. 

Thanks
Bill

Surprised you haven't heard the Event Opals, which can be had in the States for the same cost as the ML1s.

They were flat in my room down to 35hz.

Did a search over on  www.gearslutz.com and couldn't find any posts about the Lenehan ML1s being used as studio monitors.

[writeface]

I have had DAC-2 for 2 months. It has gotten the latest firmware update as well. I replaced PS Audio Perfectwave DAC with WFS DAC-2. Sources for DAC2 are PS Audio transport via I2S , new Mac Mini 2010 (all files stored as AIFF on Oyen fw external drive). Joule electra preamp to W4S SX-500 Mono Amps.

I am quite happy with the performance of DAC-2 so far. The level of details, sound stage, Bass, dynamics, clarity, smoothness are very impressive. I have not noticed any glare or sibilance. I have used  just iTunes and iTunes with Pure Music Player. The one difference I found between this DAC and PS Audio perfectwave DAC is that the output level of W4S DAC is slightly lesser so I am having to turn up the volume on my preamp more. I played hirez files from Linn, HD tracks, as well as rips from regular redbook and it handled all well.  Just for the heck of it I plugged my PS/3 via toslink to this DAC too:)

[Jon L]

Sources for DAC2 are PS Audio transport via I2S , new Mac Mini 2010 (all files stored as AIFF on Oyen fw external drive). Joule electra preamp to W4S SX-500 Mono Amps.

PS Audio trasnport via I2S is a formidable transport.  How does USB stack up compared to that? 

[Eric5676]

I have had DAC-2 for 2 months. It has gotten the latest firmware update as well. I replaced PS Audio Perfectwave DAC with WFS DAC-2.

How's come?

  Sources for DAC2 are PS Audio transport via I2S , new Mac Mini 2010 (all files stored as AIFF on Oyen fw external drive). Joule electra preamp to W4S SX-500 Mono Amps.

That's interesting. You kept the Perfectwave Transport but got rid of its matching sister product, the PWD.

I am quite happy with the performance of DAC-2 so far. The level of details, sound stage, Bass, dynamics, clarity, smoothness are very impressive. I have not noticed any glare or sibilance. I have used  just iTunes and iTunes with Pure Music Player. The one difference I found between this DAC and PS Audio perfectwave DAC is that the output level of W4S DAC is slightly lesser so I am having to turn up the volume on my preamp more. I played hirez files from Linn, HD tracks, as well as rips from regular redbook and it handled all well.  Just for the heck of it I plugged my PS/3 via toslink to this DAC too:)

Good stuff. Look forward to more impressions.

Also: How big of a deal, really, is using I2S vs. anything else?

[bhobba]

Surprised you haven't heard the Event Opals, which can be had in the States for the same cost as the ML1s. They were flat in my room down to 35hz.  Did a search over on  www.gearslutz.com and couldn't find any posts about the Lenehan ML1s being used as studio monitors.

The ML1's are flat to 40hz.  And yes they are not used often to my knowledge.  The studio engineer I was talking about  is the only one I know that uses them and claims they have revolutionized his monitoring and has heard no pro audio gear to touch them.  I know Bob Smith's Timepieces are well respected in the pro audio community and they certainly will stack up to the ML1's, but that is the only one I know off hand that will.  Don't know if the Opals will or not but from what the pro audio guy tells me in general pro audio monitors are not that great.

Thanks
Bill

[jdbrian]

I read a post on the Stereo.net.au by Steven Valve and it really doesn't sound like the Killer DAC is commercially available. Here's what he said in one of his posts: "I sometimes hand make audio stuff, Amps, DACs. for friends or people i like. And i know really love music. Many ask for my help but i usually say no. I do not like audiophiles much, most are Wankers showing off there stuff and not really into the music, I keep away from them. I am not a manufacturer of commercial products but one day maybe.

 Hi folks

  I am looking for a DAC and have been following the various threads on reviews etc. There are some interesting DAC's in the shootout referred to, but I feel it is only one source of information on the W4S DAC and is in no way more valid to me than the opinion expressed in the 6 moons review. The conclusions about the W4S DAC are quite opposite to those of the majority of users and the professional review in 6 moons. 
   The statement above, which is attributed to one of the DAC builders, displays a high level of disrespect for the average audiophile. I don't agree with it and I feel it is a very striking attitude for a potential manufacturer to use about his future customers. Most of the audiophiles I know are very much music lovers and I find the above statement offensive.

Regards
Brian

   

[bhobba]

I am looking for a DAC and have been following the various threads on reviews etc. There are some interesting DAC's in the shootout referred to, but I feel it is only one source of information on the W4S DAC and is in no way more valid to me than the opinion expressed in the 6 moons review. The conclusions about the W4S DAC are quite opposite to those of the majority of users and the professional review in 6 moons.  The statement above, which is attributed to one of the DAC builders, displays a high level of disrespect for the average audiophile. I don't agree with it and I feel it is a very striking attitude for a potential manufacturer to use about his future customers. Most of the audiophiles I know are very much music lovers and I find the above statement offensive.

I was at the shootout and am the owner of the WFS used at the shootout.  Steve Garland in fact thought the WFS OK but Steve has definite views on DAC sound and preferred his DAC and a heavily tweaked pcm1704 DAC describing the sound as REAL.  Having heard both DAC's that is my view as well - the WFS sounded HI Fi ish but the Killer DAC sounded REAL.  Of course my and Steve's view is in no any more valid than 6 Moons professional reviewers.  I will also tell you a professional reviewer was also at he shootout and he had exactly the same view as Steve.  Also I only know of one professional review of the WFS - to really get a consensus we need quite a few more.  Bottom line here is there is no absolutes and many varied and conflicting views abound.  Just because one professional reviewer likes a product does not mean another will nor even that you will like it.  From my experience it would be very wise not to base purchase decisions solely on reviews - seek the product out and listen to it.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

Seek out the products and listen to them?  Bill, as per my earlier posts, it seems the AU thread guys are not that interested in making DACs let alone having anyone (outside his circle of friends) listen to one.  Are they aware you are over here touting them?  If a person from a forum called Audio Circle follows a DAC thread and asks someone half way around the world about his DAC creation, he's hardly a "wanker".  And the respondent is hardly a manufacturer.  I'm sure these guys are brilliant, and have great ideas and great DACS...but if they don't want to make them for the buying public let's call this what it is, and allow products like WFS (with customer service departments, etc) to compete with "its own kind".

[bhobba]

Seek out the products and listen to them?  Bill, as per my earlier posts, it seems the AU thread guys are not that interested in making DACs let alone having anyone (outside his circle of friends) listen to one.  Are they aware you are over here touting them?  If a person from a forum called Audio Circle follows a DAC thread and asks someone half way around the world about his DAC creation, he's hardly a "wanker".  And the respondent is hardly a manufacturer.  I'm sure these guys are brilliant, and have great ideas and great DACS...but if they don't want to make them for the buying public let's call this what it is, and allow products like WFS (with customer service departments, etc) to compete with "its own kind".

So what have we got here.  Because DAC's made in limited quantity (but none the less still available for purchase) were competing against a DAC much more readily available that was somehow an invalid comparison.  Sure the DAC's made in limited quantities are difficult to find and listen to but here in Aus we face that problem all the time and live with it.  I bought Aether Audio Spirit SE's that way and I am not worried about it.  Sure I would have liked to listen to them but I trust Bob Smith.  I see no reason others can't.  Are you seriously suggesting a shootout with Bob's speakers should not include well known brands like say KEF because there is virtually no way people here in Aus can hear them and it would not against its own kind?  And my comment anyway was about a product it is quite easy to seek out and listen to.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

I know Bob Smith; he is a dear friend of mine.  I own FIVE of his best Revelation/Continuum speakers in a full hi-end 2 channel and 5.1 setup.  Bob would NEVER say that he would not make a speaker for someone cuz he hates audiophiles or thinks they are wankers.  Bob is a consummate manufacturer (and design genius) and makes speakers for anyone who wants them...but if Bob decided to only make speakers for he and his friends I would say that he is no longer commercially viable, yes (which, don't get me wrong,...is quite ok for someone to do, just don't call them manufacturers!).  However, that ain't the case with Bob Smith and Aether Audio!!  Bad example Bill.

[srb]

Bob is a consummate manufacturer (and design genius) and makes speakers for anyone who wants them...but if Bob decided to only make speakers for he and his friends I would say that he is no longer commercially viable, yes (which, don't get me wrong,...is quite ok for someone to do, just don't call them manufacturers!).

Not to mention that you can go to his website and get descriptions, specifications and pricing on the products.  Where would one find this same information for these custom DACs?
 
Steve

[bhobba]

I know Bob Smith; he is a dear friend of mine.  I own FIVE of his best Revelation/Continuum speakers in a full hi-end 2 channel and 5.1 setup.  Bob would NEVER say that he would not make a speaker for someone cuz he hates audiophiles or thinks they are wankers.  Bob is a consummate manufacturer (and design genius) and makes speakers for anyone who wants them...but if Bob decided to only make speakers for he and his friends I would say that he is no longer commercially viable, yes (which, don't get me wrong,...is quite ok for someone to do, just don't call them manufacturers!).  However, that ain't the case with Bob Smith and Aether Audio!!  Bad example Bill.

So your concern is about the language Steve used and not the listening issue?  What - do you only want me to give links to threads I know that people wont use inappropriate language on?  Any one can buy Steve's DAC - his crack not withstanding.  And Ted you forget I know only too well your relationship to Bob - I have been frequenting that forum for years.  I chose it for a reason - namely you know about it.  Bob would never use lanuage like that nor do I think Steven should but he is free to say what he likes.  I have met the guy - its simply part of his nature.  It attracts a certain type just like Bob Smith does.

Thanks
Bill

[chlorofille]

Is this the $14K ML3?

Hi,

Do you have a link for more info on the ML-3's?
Thx, appreciated.

[bhobba]

Do you have a link for more info on the ML-3's?

Here are some pictures:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=3971

I can tell you they sound fabulous - the best speakers I haver ever heard.  Midrange designed to be like Quad electrostatics (and successfully done IMHO) and are flat to 25hz with bass quality that has to heard to be believed.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

So your concern is about the language Steve used and not the listening issue?  What - do you only want me to give links to threads I know that people wont use inappropriate language on?  Any one can buy Steve's DAC - his crack not withstanding.  And Ted you forget I know only too well your relationship to Bob - I have been frequenting that forum for years.  I chose it for a reason - namely you know about it.  Bob would never use lanuage like that nor do I think Steven should but he is free to say what he likes.  I have met the guy - its simply part of his nature.  It attracts a certain type just like Bob Smith does.

Thanks
Bill

We're missing each other somehow.  No, I could care less about the language.  I care more about the message...Steve clearly said he makes DACs for his friends and is not interested in making stuff for audiophiles or others.  What am I missing here?  He's not a manufacturer, will not give customer service a priority, will not provide updates on a worldwide basis...he's just a brilliant guy making a DAC for some friends.  He even says as much. 

Anyway, my $.02...maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.  I just know that it is a difficult decision to go with a non-established player, especially one that has no real infrastructure (website, employees, etc).  Some would say I did that exact thing when I went with Bob Smith and SP Tech (now Aether Audio).  However, as stated, Bob is staffed, funded, has a website, provides great customer service, and is a sponsor manufacturer here..which says he votes with his wallet. 

[chlorofille]

Hi Bhobba,

Thanks for the pics. The speakers look dazzling. 
Looks like there's no specs or more info regarding the ML3's.
Opps off topic!