Michael Fremer discusses VTA, SRA in June 2010 Stereophile.....

Wayner · « **Reply #160 on:** 31 May 2010, 11:37 am »

I believe that the 92 degree SRA will give you better "trackability", which may lead to lower distortion, but I think that it helps to capture all of the information within the groove. I also think that this improves record wear because of the better contact area. It's all about pounds per square inch, and for most styli, this is the way to go. I do think the ear, as has been suggested before, be the final judge.

Wayner

SteveFord · « **Reply #161 on:** 31 May 2010, 02:27 pm »

I'd like to add that while a microscope or jeweler's loupe would be great to have, you can view the stylus well enough with a gooseneck table lamp and a powerful magnifiying glass straight from the hardware store.
The advice about setting the arm or cartridge parallel to the record isn't exactly accurate with what I'm using.
With a normal (cheap-o) album I can stick a good portion of my pinky underneath the Well Temered's cup.
I can see the need for adjusting VTA depending upon the thickness of the album, dag nab it. Flimsy album was where I set the Zero line, 180gm is right at 10mm, 200 looks to be about 11 - 12mm.
One really nice thing is that spending two minutes with a light, magnifying glass and an allen wrench I not only got greatly improved sound but it eliminated a skip from a new copy of Get Yer Ya's Ya's Out.
Thanks for this thread and Michael Fermer for making me rethink my set up.

steveblezy · « **Reply #162 on:** 1 Jun 2010, 12:00 am »

SteveFord I like your comment

"Thanks for this thread and Michael Fermer for making me rethink my set up"

Regardless of a persons particular hardware of personal views on vta/sra, I found guess that many of the readers of this thread may have taking a few extra minutes to take a look at their set-up and re-evaluate it. Regardless if they made changes or not, it is threads like these that are very helpful. And you are correct, a good light, strong magnifying glass, a set of ears and the willingness to try something new are the best tools around.

Steve

SteveFord · « **Reply #163 on:** 1 Jun 2010, 09:53 pm »

You spend all the money on a decent turntable, cartridge, record cleaner, phono stage, etc. and then worry about cartridge alignment, tracking force, azimuth and anti skating - everything's good except for what's actually riding in the grooves!
Seeing how drastically the angle of the stylus changed with different album thicknesses has made me realize that it's a real good idea to take the extra minute and see just what angle it's at.
Roughly 92 degrees sounds really good to me as it revealed a lot of stuff that was previously buried in the mix. Lower noise floor, too.

Wayner · « **Reply #164 on:** 4 Jun 2010, 07:26 pm »

Just a heads up (and maybe obvious for some of you), that if you have your cartridge aligned at one specific plane, like the arm parallel to the record surface and you realize that you have to raise the back of your tonearm by a substantial amount, you will have to re-align your cartridge at the new VTA location. I did some CAD work this morning and in one case the difference was .267mm, which aslo screwed up the null point alignment, changing the offset angle as well. Remember to align your cartridge on top of an old record to include that thickness.

Wayner

ricmon · « **Reply #165 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 01:54 am »

I've been off the AC for a few weeks and to come back and find this thread. I feel that this is one of the most profound expressions of what really happens to the "audiophile". We grow up. After endless pursuits for great sound we come into our own and we know intuitively whats constituent good, fun, entertaining home music reproduction. I hope the manufactures are listening.

cheers

steveblezy · « **Reply #166 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 06:19 pm »

Wayner, great work with the CAD. It is nice to see some numbers showing the difference in the overhang. After I made the VTA increase, I could easily see the difference with my Dr Feickert protractor and the math showed that there would be a 'potential' difference.

I have enjoyed your many CAD related posts across many of the threads.

Steve

Wayner · « **Reply #167 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 07:09 pm »

Thanks Steve. Yesterday we had rain all day, so after my chores were done, I spun vinyl for about 4 hours. I don't know if the weather, my new Ultravalve amp or the new 92 degree SRA had anything to do with it (probably all did), but it was some of the finest music I've heard yet. The detail is so rich and yet delicate with many layers of nuance. I wondered if anyone else in Minnesota was listening to this good of vinyl or if anybody really cared. I certainly enjoyed it. We're spinning right now before the 3:00 Twins game. A little Genesis, from the 1970-1975 box set from Atlantic/Rhino....awesome.

Wayner

TONEPUB · « **Reply #168 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 07:11 pm »

Quote from: ricmon on 5 Jun 2010, 01:54 am

I've been off the AC for a few weeks and to come back and find this thread. I feel that this is one of the most profound expressions of what really happens to the "audiophile". We grow up. After endless pursuits for great sound we come into our own and we know intuitively whats constituent good, fun, entertaining home music reproduction. I hope the manufactures are listening.

cheers

This is a really good post.

I've been chasing the analog rabbit for over 35 years now, and a couple of times I've even managed to get pretty close to the mountain, but in the end it's really about kicking back and enjoying some music with friends. At the end of the day I just don't panic about much of it anymore.

What we've seen in all of our market research is that there are a lot of people out there that would like high quality music systems, but precious few of them really want to become audiophiles.

Sorry to say it, but not too many people want to be that wacky about it anymore....

Napalm · « **Reply #169 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 6 Jun 2010, 07:11 pm

[...]Sorry to say it, but not too many people want to be that wacky about it anymore....

Nap.

Wayner · « **Reply #170 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 07:48 pm »

Well, my mom and dad had a Magnavox console stereo that I suppose I could have settled for. It played records and one could just sit back and listen to that too, but I'm not that way. I've spent 35+ years living in the world of geometry, symmetry and balance. Running a CAD since 1985, it's software creeps into your mind, into your behavior and into your lifestyle. Even what some might consider total ciaos has an order to it, if you look close enough and know what to look for. I enjoy the geometrical challenge that vinyl demands, for ultra playback. The milestone is accuracy. You expect it from the artists you listen to, so I think they expect you to set your shit up right to listen to their music, the way they intended. If you want plug and play, go the CD or iPod route. I don't sit and chew off my fingernails worrying if my stylus is in the right position, 'cause I use math and tools I have to put it where I want it. The rewards are fantastic.

I'd like to have a vintage Mustang too, but I'm all thumbs when it comes to auto mechanics, except for the basic stuff. Could you imagine someone owning a vintage, high performance car that didn't have a clue how to maintain it? He'd be broke in short order. You want it? You better figure out how the thing works.

W

neobop · « **Reply #171 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 11:02 pm »

Hey Wayner,
I know of a way you could objectively test optimal VTA/SRA. You could check the 92 degree setting on different records. It shouldn't be too hard, with calibrated VTA, to go back to 92. This would allow an actual empirical verification.

I just got a test record, The Ultimate Analogue Test Record by Analogue Productions. This record can be used by techs to set up cutter heads and calibrate RIAA curves for preamps, and optimal TT set up. It's around $40 from NeedleDr. Track #9 is VTA adjust. It's an IEC intermodulation distortion test signal, 60Hz and 4KHz, 4:1 ratio. Hook up your IMD tester (or Franks) and see where you get minimum distortion.

I bought the record for azimuth testing mostly. Peter, at Soundsmith, recommended using one for this. I do most everything by ear and sight, but I know this can save a lot of time and give exact results. If you try this, I think you'll find that there are many odd records, especially vintage ones that don't conform.
neo

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #172 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 12:10 am »

Wayner- I have a belt driven Micro Seiki TT in storage. I know for a fact the speed is off. I seem to remember a device of some kind was, hopefully is, available for finding and setting speed. Do you know of such a thing? Thanks much.

Neobop, thanks for your post and information.

Wayner · « **Reply #173 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 12:01 pm »

You need a strobe test disc for 33 1/3 at 60 cycle. This requires a good fluorescent lamp, like a trouble lite, that has a magnetic ballast. New electronic CFLs have a solid state ballast that is designed to reduce lamp flicker (60 times per second) and this will not work well with the strobe disc. You adjust motor speed until the lines appear to stand still.

Wayner

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #174 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 06:13 pm »

Thanks, Wayner. Any simpler way of doing this to your knowledge? Anybody?

TONEPUB · « **Reply #175 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 06:42 pm »

I don't know if it's simpler, but I use the Acoustic Sounds test record with 1000hz tone and my digital MM and adjust to 1000hz.

Wayner · « **Reply #176 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 07:25 pm »

If you have a CD and an LP of the same ilk, play them at the same time and see if you can get the LP to sync up. May take a few tries and you might need to move some things.

Wayner

BobM · « **Reply #177 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 07:48 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Jun 2010, 07:25 pm

If you have a CD and an LP of the same ilk, play them at the same time and see if you can get the LP to sync up. May take a few tries and you might need to move some things.

Wayner

Use Dark Side of the Moon and a Wizard of Oz movie. Press Play on the CD (or drop the needle in the lead in groove) right at the 3rd lion roar on the movie.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #178 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 07:57 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Jun 2010, 07:25 pm

If you have a CD and an LP of the same ilk, play them at the same time and see if you can get the LP to sync up. May take a few tries and you might need to move some things.

Wayner

That's the most inexpensive way I know.. Good one!

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #179 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Jun 2010, 07:25 pm

If you have a CD and an LP of the same ilk, play them at the same time and see if you can get the LP to sync up. May take a few tries and you might need to move some things.

Wayner

Yep, I do and will do. Thanks. Wait a minute. I have one pre amp. How do you play them at the same time? I'm serious. Am I missing something? I suppose I could time them. This is starting to look like its gonna take awhile.