Is the Squeezebox Touch a good transport?

eclein · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 May 2010, 12:06 am »

Thank ya sir..

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 May 2010, 07:09 am »

Folks,
I have had the following in my system (digital out into a Panasonic SA-BX500 Digital amplifier receiver biamped into Siliverline Sonatina speakers) and here I have them listed in the quality of digital output/low jitter.

Touch with modded Elpac power supply
Duet with Welborne Labs power supply
Duet with stock power supply
digital modded Oppo 970 with aftermarket power cord
Digital modded SB3 with modded Elpac powersupply
Philiips 963SA with aftermarket power cord

Basically, I think the Touch is the best digital I have heard so far. If you have a different experience, please try with a linear power supply and/or power conditioners (I have a balanced power conditioner for my whole system). I use a Zu Ash digital cable and also have glass toslinks (the Zu beats the toslinks in my system).

Wayne1 · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 May 2010, 01:55 pm »

The Touch IS very sensitive to power and noise in the AC and DC line. Use a VERY good DC power supply to can produce at least 2 amps. More is you are going to use the internal server software with a USB drive. Try different power cables into the power supply, if you are able. A power conditioner will help quite a bit. The Kaplan cable with conditioning would be a good, but expensive choice.

It has been reported the the Touch does sound better when run from an external server rather than with a USB drive plugged into it.

I personally prefer a good coax with WBT or Eichmann connectors. It does help it the coax connectors on the Touch and the DAC are also WBT. Changing everything over to 75 ohm BNC would also be a good thing.

Try to run Ethernet cable direct to the Touch. There have been some problems noted running 24/96 material wireless.

The Touch and a new power supply should be run in playing music. You do not have to listen to it 24/7 but set the touch up on random play and them choose a different input for your amp. You do want the the changes of amplitude from music to modulate the current requirements of the power supplies, both internally to the Touch and in the external PS.

I prefer the coax connection. I don't like to change the state of the signal from electrical to optical and then back. Most of the optical transmitters and receivers and very inexpensive and cause all sorts of noise in the DC power lines.

Try different physical placement of the touch and power supply. Try to keep it away from other power supplies. Try not to have it sitting on top of power amps, receivers, power conditioners.

Despite many reports of elimination of jitter with the ESS DAC chip, I have found that adding a Bybee Purifier in the digital line does change the sound quite a bit. Some may like the changes, others may not.

I should finally be able to compare the Touch to a full on Enthusiast modded DUET and Enthusiast modded SB3 into the modded EE DAC.

I will post this in my circle.

Good luck to all with their mix and match with the Touch. I do have to say with the EE DAC, I do hear more of the information contained in my files than with any other source I have tried. With 24/96 I get the pure high end extension that I have always heard with high end vinyl.

Gopher · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 May 2010, 01:39 am »

I did some experimenting with different cables and my Touch sounds significantly better feeding my Eastern Electric Minimax DAC via Toshlink! I'm using some old acoustic research my father had in his cable junk drawer (actually a bag on a shelf).

There is a significant difference and I actually made my non-audiophile wife sit in my sweet spot and listen as I blind tested her switching the inputs. She went four for four in preferring the tosh and described the difference as the MAC Coax sounding like cheap digital vs. a much more analog sound (these words from her mouth surprised me--I didn't know she was capable of describing sound!).

I'm liking my touch a lot more as a transport now and will probably use this coax on my 963sa exclusively. Cool.

TJHUB · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 May 2010, 02:29 am »

Well, there's another one.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

mchuckp · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 May 2010, 05:09 am »

Tonight I dug out a brand new toslink cable I bought some time ago from BlueJeans that never got used. I did some comparisons back and forth to the coaxial connection (also BlueJeans) into my Wyred4Sound DAC-1. At first, I thought the Toslink WAS sounding better than the coaxial but after further listening, I felt the Toslink was a bit harsh in the presentation. It did seem to be pulling more out of the recording but didn't seem very smooth to me and a bit harsh on the ears. The coaxial seemed a smidge less detailed but had a very nice smooth sound to it through the whole frequency range. So for me, I guess the question is it more of a matter of preference in presentation or maybe my Toslink path needs broken in my DAC as this is the first time I have used that path. I'm gonna keep streaming some data through the Toslink for a few days and do a comparo again. I did notice my DAC-1 really smoothing out nicely as it got broken in. Not sure if one needs to break in each path individually.

Also, based on TJHUB's suggestion, I ordered a glass fiber toslink from Parts Express. I'm VERY tempted to order a Bolder power supply to see the effect.

TJHUB · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 May 2010, 11:12 am »

Quote from: mchuckp on 19 May 2010, 05:09 am

Tonight I dug out a brand new toslink cable I bought some time ago from BlueJeans that never got used. I did some comparisons back and forth to the coaxial connection (also BlueJeans) into my Wyred4Sound DAC-1. At first, I thought the Toslink WAS sounding better than the coaxial but after further listening, I felt the Toslink was a bit harsh in the presentation. It did seem to be pulling more out of the recording but didn't seem very smooth to me and a bit harsh on the ears. The coaxial seemed a smidge less detailed but had a very nice smooth sound to it through the whole frequency range. So for me, I guess the question is it more of a matter of preference in presentation or maybe my Toslink path needs broken in my DAC as this is the first time I have used that path. I'm gonna keep streaming some data through the Toslink for a few days and do a comparo again. I did notice my DAC-1 really smoothing out nicely as it got broken in. Not sure if one needs to break in each path individually.

Also, based on TJHUB's suggestion, I ordered a glass fiber toslink from Parts Express. I'm VERY tempted to order a Bolder power supply to see the effect.

For me, the glass toslink was the key. I would question anything less. I don't think that BJC toslink is going to sound anything like the glass one will. I hope it works out for you too.

eclein · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 May 2010, 11:47 am »

Quote from: mchuckp on 19 May 2010, 05:09 am

Also, based on TJHUB's suggestion, I ordered a glass fiber toslink from Parts Express. I'm VERY tempted to order a Bolder power supply to see the effect.

I bought a linear power supply & plug kit from Parts Express for $30 for my Duet and the improvement in the depth and dimension of soundstage was remarkable!! It was like buying a totally new system, I can only imagine how much improvement a Bolder PS or Bolder modded Parts Express power supply would make!!! Apparently as noted in another thread the SB Touch needs more power or tweaked version of the PE pwr. supply, others have shared this improvement:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80949.0
The unit:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-536&ctab=13#Tabs
Plug kit:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-537

mcullinan · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 May 2010, 12:34 pm »

Glass is good. I have and use a glass toslink, now in my 2nd system. A good coax is the WAY!
M

johsti · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 May 2010, 06:57 pm »

I'll have to try the optical output on the touch. So far I've only tried the coax and analog.

Another option for an inexpensive glass toslink is from this place.

http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/gltodiopca.html

They also have an ebay store under the same name and you can save a few bucks. I've been using this cable without any problems for over a year and have no complaints about sound quality.

mr_bill · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 May 2010, 07:26 pm »

Can the Parts Express power supply that is in the link below be used for the Touch - if not plugging a USB drive into the Touch?

Quote from: eclein on 19 May 2010, 11:47 am

I bought a linear power supply & plug kit from Parts Express for $30 for my Duet and the improvement in the depth and dimension of soundstage was remarkable!! It was like buying a totally new system, I can only imagine how much improvement a Bolder PS or Bolder modded Parts Express power supply would make!!! Apparently as noted in another thread the SB Touch needs more power or tweaked version of the PE pwr. supply, others have shared this improvement:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80949.0
The unit:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-536&ctab=13#Tabs
Plug kit:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-537

mchuckp · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 May 2010, 07:33 pm »

Quote from: mr_bill on 19 May 2010, 07:26 pm

Can the Parts Express power supply that is in the link below be used for the Touch - if not plugging a USB drive into the Touch?

This is exactly what I'm wondering....

Gopher · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 May 2010, 07:41 pm »

no it can not without modification.

And yes, I actually tried and it wouldn't power up.

mchuckp · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 May 2010, 07:52 pm »

I'm really torn right now. I'm itchin' to upgrade my turntable but also very interested to see what a Bolder power supply does for my Touch. Who wants to give me money so I can do both?

eclein · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 May 2010, 07:54 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 18 May 2010, 01:55 pm

The Touch IS very sensitive to power and noise in the AC and DC line. Use a VERY good DC power supply to can produce at least 2 amps. More is you are going to use the internal server software with a USB drive. Try different power cables into the power supply, if you are able. A power conditioner will help quite a bit. The Kaplan cable with conditioning would be a good, but expensive choice.

It has been reported the the Touch does sound better when run from an external server rather than with a USB drive plugged into it.

I personally prefer a good coax with WBT or Eichmann connectors. It does help it the coax connectors on the Touch and the DAC are also WBT. Changing everything over to 75 ohm BNC would also be a good thing.

Try to run Ethernet cable direct to the Touch. There have been some problems noted running 24/96 material wireless.

The Touch and a new power supply should be run in playing music. You do not have to listen to it 24/7 but set the touch up on random play and them choose a different input for your amp. You do want the the changes of amplitude from music to modulate the current requirements of the power supplies, both internally to the Touch and in the external PS.

I prefer the coax connection. I don't like to change the state of the signal from electrical to optical and then back. Most of the optical transmitters and receivers and very inexpensive and cause all sorts of noise in the DC power lines.

Try different physical placement of the touch and power supply. Try to keep it away from other power supplies. Try not to have it sitting on top of power amps, receivers, power conditioners.

Despite many reports of elimination of jitter with the ESS DAC chip, I have found that adding a Bybee Purifier in the digital line does change the sound quite a bit. Some may like the changes, others may not.

I should finally be able to compare the Touch to a full on Enthusiast modded DUET and Enthusiast modded SB3 into the modded EE DAC.

I will post this in my circle.

Good luck to all with their mix and match with the Touch. I do have to say with the EE DAC, I do hear more of the information contained in my files than with any other source I have tried. With 24/96 I get the pure high end extension that I have always heard with high end vinyl.

I think as Gopher said it needs a modification, thats why I'm adding a DAC along with my Duet and keeping the PS because I've heard how good it sounds. I'm very content listening to .wav files via the Duet with or without an added DAC, I rarely listen to CD's anymore-I import them and then file them away.

Biggest decision I make now while listening is how far back to recline!!!!!!!!

eclein · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 May 2010, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: mchuckp on 19 May 2010, 07:52 pm

I'm really torn right now. I'm itchin' to upgrade my turntable but also very interested to see what a Bolder power supply does for my Touch. Who wants to give me money so I can do both?

If I had the funds I wouldn't hesitate to get the modded power supply...the difference that change made--and I just got the stock one from PE--is pleasantly apparent every day!! I'm not affiliated with Bolder in any way but whatever Wayne post's I read and try to incorporate into my system. He's got the mojo....IMHO

stormsonic · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 May 2010, 09:52 pm »

Quote

I personally prefer a good coax with WBT or Eichmann connectors.

You prefer Eichmann RCA's with 39 Ohm specific impedance into 75 Ohm interface?

Quote

Changing everything over to 75 ohm BNC would also be a good thing.

It is best thing

Quote

I prefer the coax connection. I don't like to change the state of the signal from electrical to optical and then back. Most of the optical transmitters and receivers and very inexpensive and cause all sorts of noise in the DC power lines.

Reflections is right word

Quote

I should finally be able to compare the Touch to a full on Enthusiast modded DUET and Enthusiast modded SB3 into the modded EE DAC.

I know the results. Measured modded SB3 and stock Touch digital out. There is clear winner

bprice2 · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 May 2010, 09:54 pm »

Quote from: eclein on 19 May 2010, 08:15 pm

If I had the funds I wouldn't hesitate to get the modded power supply...the difference that change made--and I just got the stock one from PE--is pleasantly apparent every day!! I'm not affiliated with Bolder in any way but whatever Wayne post's I read and try to incorporate into my system. He's got the mojo....IMHO

I have to agree with everything you've said here. The man does good work and the new Touch has shown itself to be very impressive IMO.

This thread is about using the Touch as a transport, but I have to comment on the Touch using the analog outs. I think it is really good. I'm using the Bolder Rev. 1 PS that was doing duty with my SB3 and it ratchets things up a notch or two. Add in the Burson Buffer that I'm also using and things get really really good.

When I first plugged the Touch in and had my first listen I had pulled the buffer out of the mix and thought to myself, cool, I get to simplify things and remove the buffer from the system. After listening for a bit, I decided to add the buffer into the mix just to see what it sounded like. Immediately I was blown away. Tone was fantastic, imaging blossomed and everything sounded better. The buffer will remain.

After I finish the project I'm currently working on, the Touch is going to Colorado for a little nip-tuck.

I'm not affiliated with Bolder either, but a few of my dollars have become so.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 May 2010, 05:21 am »

Quote from: stormsonic on 19 May 2010, 09:52 pm

...I know the results. Measured modded SB3 and stock Touch digital out. There is clear winner

Care to share?

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 May 2010, 08:07 am »

Hi Wayne,

I am going to purchase a SB Touch soon and thinking of getting a mod PS from you to feed AC to it. Please advise how.

Paul