Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!! UPDATE: A.C. TOUR ON THE WAY!!!

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Bear

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #80 on: 22 Mar 2010, 10:47 pm »
"Best way for audiophiles would be to replace the RCA female connectors on their transports and DACs and install SMA/BNC connectors. Then I can just sell you my cable with SMA/BNC connectors on each end. This would be a perfect solution."

That's the ticket.....excellent option.  Sale your cables with the proper terminations to mod the intended gear.  Ingenius idea. :thumb:

Can I get a percentage of this option since it was my idea?  shameless, I know. :lol: :oops: :eyebrows:


dBe

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #81 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:01 am »
You might want to take a closer look at these connectors.

http://www.wbtusa.com/pdf/0110.pdf

http://www.wbtusa.com/pdf/0210cu.pdf
The WBT NextGens are THE BEST connector I have ever heard... or never heard, depending on your POV.  The demo at RMAF by Ray Kimber with the Bel Canto gear driving the TAD's was a real ear opener.

The Canare 75 ohm are pretty good and closer to 75 ohm than the Vampires IME (they sound better). 

I will be constructing a 1 meter cable with the WBT connectors and NeoTech digital silver cable and will cryo it to try against the cheap stuff. 

Like I said elsewhere ( http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78737.new;topicseen#new ):  The journey continues..............

Dave   

Occam

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #82 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:24 am »
......
Best way for audiophiles would be to replace the RCA female connectors on their transports and DACs and install SMA/BNC connectors. Then I can just sell you my cable with SMA/BNC connectors on each end. This would be a perfect solution.

While I'm aware of 75 ohm versions of BNC, SMB, and SMC coax connectors, I've not seen 75 ohm SMAs. Would you please provide a link?

TIA,
Paul

NagysAudio

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #83 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:34 am »
NeoTech is a coax cable I believe (which is a good thing), but the WBT connectors are not designed for a coax cable. You can try using Canare if the NeoTech's have a solid center conductor (you'll need a $100 crimp tool, plus die set), if the center conductor is stranded then you won't be able to use the Canare, unless ofcourse you can solder the center pin on, which is the wrong way to do it for that particular pin.

WBT connectors are meant for audiophile nonsense 2 conductor cables with hanging shield (yuck!). You could theoretically twist and solder the coax shield to the one single outer pin, but that is again a wrong way of doing it (poor shielding).

The point it this... Coax cable is the only proper way to make audio/digital interconnects, but there aren't that many coax RCA connectors out there. Vampire is the best by far. Not only does it have a pressure fit that clamps around the outer braid, but you can also solder the center pin and use either solid core, or stranded cable. Plus, the connector itself is silver plated and then gold plated to resist corrosion and has a Teflon dielectric (the best).

P.S. The Canares don't measure 75 ohms any better than any other RCA connector. Plus, 75 ohms is only important for digital audio cables, for analogue audio it makes virtually no difference. For video, it also makes no difference, because most people are using HDMI cables these days.

NagysAudio

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #84 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:39 am »
Occam, I've seen them before. SMA is usually 50 ohms since it's a military spec'd connector, but 75 ohm versions exist as well. Here's the first link that popped up while I did a Yahoo! search:

http://www.xmultiple.com/RF-SMA75.htm

SMB/SMC would definitely work as well, if they're more readily available even better.

dBe

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #85 on: 23 Mar 2010, 05:08 am »
NeoTech is a coax cable I believe (which is a good thing), but the WBT connectors are not designed for a coax cable. You can try using Canare if the NeoTech's have a solid center conductor (you'll need a $100 crimp tool, plus die set), if the center conductor is stranded then you won't be able to use the Canare, unless ofcourse you can solder the center pin on, which is the wrong way to do it for that particular pin.

WBT connectors are meant for audiophile nonsense 2 conductor cables with hanging shield (yuck!). You could theoretically twist and solder the coax shield to the one single outer pin, but that is again a wrong way of doing it (poor shielding).

The point it this... Coax cable is the only proper way to make audio/digital interconnects, but there aren't that many coax RCA connectors out there. Vampire is the best by far. Not only does it have a pressure fit that clamps around the outer braid, but you can also solder the center pin and use either solid core, or stranded cable. Plus, the connector itself is silver plated and then gold plated to resist corrosion and has a Teflon dielectric (the best).

P.S. The Canares don't measure 75 ohms any better than any other RCA connector. Plus, 75 ohms is only important for digital audio cables, for analogue audio it makes virtualland it does not involve twisting the braid os other shieldingference. For video, it also makes no difference, because most people are using HDMI cables these days.

You believe correctly, NeoTech is a coaxial 75 ohm cable that is very good.  Exceptional is perhaps a better word. WBT cables work just fine with coaxial cable, you are incorrect about that.  I have terminated perhaps 30 pair of cables using a coaxial braid with NextGens in the last 4 years and it is a no brainer and it does not involve twisting the braid or other shielding.

Canare connectors do not require a Canare crimp tool or their dies.  Standard crimp tools made for coax work if you know how to use them correctly. Canare 75 ohm RCAs can be soldered easily IF you know how to do that, too.

The Vampires are very good connectors for analog and I use them extensively.  They are in no way superior to the Canares for digital applications and in my experience are at a slight performance disadvantage.  Hook up an SWR meter and see for yourself.  [Oh, BTW, digital cables shorter than 1 meter are not a particularly good idea, either]  The fact that they have a teflon dielectric ("the best" woohoo) is of no consequence when they are connected to a cable that has a meter or more of foamed HDPE as a dielectric (http://www.belden.com/pdfs/prodbull/NP207.pdf) and a reflective termination.

WBT connectors are not "made for audiophile nonsense 2 conductor cables with hanging shield (yuck!)."  They are made for high quality audio cable.  If your "hanging shield" means a telescoped ground, then you are completely off base about determination of shield grounding in any type of professional audio technical cabling system.  I have 40 years of experience in recording studios, live sound reinforcement and technical wiring for all of the above.  Please get your facts straight before you try to assume the "expert" role and lecture me on cables.  Connecting shields on both ends of any cabling other than coax is a first class ticket to ground loop hell.

In closing, you can take my name off of the list for the traveling cables.  I have just learned everything I need to know.

:shake:

Dave

smargo

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #86 on: 23 Mar 2010, 05:40 am »
all i want is a telephone number to nagys - ive tried to see it on the web site but all i get are email directions - can someone provide a telephone number so i can possibly place an order by phone?

thanks

NagysAudio

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #87 on: 23 Mar 2010, 05:44 am »
1.) Please tell me how exactly do you attach the shield (outer conductor) of the coax cable to the WBT connector in question? This connector only has a single point/pin outer conductor. Therefore the braided shield can only be soldered to that single point. At this point of termination, it no longer acts as a proper coax cable, nor is it shielded well. The inner body of the WBT is plastic and even though the outer cosmetic cylinder is metal, it does not touch the outer conductor, so poor shielding.

2.) I don't use that Belden cable. I use a much higher quality military cable for digital. I did find a mistake in my specs on the website thanks to you. The dielectric for my digital cable is extruded PTFE, not foamed FFEP. Will have to fix that tomorrow when I get a chance.

3.) Yes, it can be a ground loop hell and that's because some people insist on using a 2 conductor + shield for their RCA interconnect cables. What is the point of that when a coax cable is significantly superior? If you solder the shield at both ends, then you'll have the shield as an outer conductor and one of the 2 center conductors as an outer conductor, illogical. The other way around is to leave the shield hanging on one end. Just as illogical!! At that point why not just use a 2 conductor cable and connect a huge antenna to one of the grounds to pick up all the garbage?

4.) In recording studios, the cables are usually XLRs. These cables have 3 pins, so both center conductors are connected as well as the shield (at both ends!) between pin 1 and pin 1. If the equipment is improperly manufactured then one can experiment by connecting the shield in different ways ( like disconnecting it at one end), or using a capacitor. But this is the fault of the equipment and if someone couldn't ground their equipment properly, then no one should be buying it anyways. And speaking of microphones in recording studios, I've never seen a hanging shield on the cable, what would happen to phantom power?

Care to explain what facts I have wrong?

smargo

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #88 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:19 pm »
its 11:15 am est - and still no telephione number to nagy's - i realize that you have to use paypal and describe everything that you want on paypal - but it would be nice if there was a telephone number - so i could see if the person that has the website and has started this thread was real.

I just want a telephone number - is that too much to ask?

jtwrace

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #89 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:31 pm »
Nagys

What's the reasoning for you using what appears to be a basic power cord IEC / plug? 

dBe

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #90 on: 23 Mar 2010, 03:33 pm »
1.) Please tell me how exactly do you attach the shield (outer conductor) of the coax cable to the WBT connector in question? This connector only has a single point/pin outer conductor. Therefore the braided shield can only be soldered to that single point. At this point of termination, it no longer acts as a proper coax cable, nor is it shielded well. The inner body of the WBT is plastic and even though the outer cosmetic cylinder is metal, it does not touch the outer conductor, so poor shielding.

2.) I don't use that Belden cable. I use a much higher quality military cable for digital. I did find a mistake in my specs on the website thanks to you. The dielectric for my digital cable is extruded PTFE, not foamed FFEP. Will have to fix that tomorrow when I get a chance.

3.) Yes, it can be a ground loop hell and that's because some people insist on using a 2 conductor + shield for their RCA interconnect cables. What is the point of that when a coax cable is significantly superior? If you solder the shield at both ends, then you'll have the shield as an outer conductor and one of the 2 center conductors as an outer conductor, illogical. The other way around is to leave the shield hanging on one end. Just as illogical!! At that point why not just use a 2 conductor cable and connect a huge antenna to one of the grounds to pick up all the garbage?

4.) In recording studios, the cables are usually XLRs. These cables have 3 pins, so both center conductors are connected as well as the shield (at both ends!) between pin 1 and pin 1. If the equipment is improperly manufactured then one can experiment by connecting the shield in different ways ( like disconnecting it at one end), or using a capacitor. But this is the fault of the equipment and if someone couldn't ground their equipment properly, then no one should be buying it anyways. And speaking of microphones in recording studios, I've never seen a hanging shield on the cable, what would happen to phantom power?

Care to explain what facts I have wrong?
I've been trying to, but the software here keeps burping....

1).  I can give you a bunch of ways, but I'll just do one:  Wrap the termination with copper foil tape with a conductive adhesive back.  Circumfrentially solder a drain wire and then solder that to the pin.  I use esdtapes.com products

2.)  My favorite is extruded PTFE insulated RG179B made by WEICO WIRE...  54 cents a foot.  Good stuff and yes, it is milspec, as is most 179B.

3.)  Seriously!?!  Uh, no.  Study up on technical/laboratory/VASA wiring spec.  EMI/RFI suppression is what I do for a living.

4.)  The ONLY cables in a studio that is always connected at both ends is a mic cable, but they are not part of the technical wiring standard.  They are mic cables.  Technical studio wiring, when done properly, has gear mounted on insulated rails with the wiring configured with the shield telescoped to the technical ground: ie, the shields are connected to the destination terminals only.  Project studios are willy nilly... that is one of the things that separates the engineers from the posers.  FYI, many mastering studios (Art Ludwig, Bernie Grundman, Paul Stubblebine to name 3 good ones) run the entire signal chain single ended.

I'm sure you will find all of this beyond reason since you seem to know everything.  Macht nix.

 :deadhorse:

Dave

NagysAudio

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #91 on: 23 Mar 2010, 04:40 pm »
smargo, I've sent you an email.

dBe, it seems like we agree on a few things, but I seriously don't understand why you'd want such an expensive connector and then bain aid it with foil? The Weico Wire is excellent for digital, but it's not the one I use either...

Russell Dawkins

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #92 on: 23 Mar 2010, 04:48 pm »
FYI, many mastering studios (Art Ludwig, Bernie Grundman, Paul Stubblebine to name 3 good ones) run the entire signal chain single ended.

Dave

Dave, when you say single ended, are you referring to the shields floating at one end or the use of unbalanced interconnects - using RCA, not XLR, connectors?

dBe

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #93 on: 23 Mar 2010, 07:11 pm »
Dave, when you say single ended, are you referring to the shields floating at one end or the use of unbalanced interconnects - using RCA, not XLR, connectors?
RCA connectors OR equivalent.  A lot of the gear is hard soldered together.  There is a feeling among many in the studio end of things that balanced connections is not ultimately transparent as single ended operation.

Dave

BobM

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #94 on: 23 Mar 2010, 07:29 pm »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that balanced connections generally were at a higher "wattage" than RCA's and therefore had a better signal to noise ratio. And that's where the improvement was to be found, as well as the increased shielding capability of a balanced connection.

mcullinan

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #95 on: 23 Mar 2010, 07:43 pm »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that balanced connections generally were at a higher "wattage" than RCA's and therefore had a better signal to noise ratio. And that's where the improvement was to be found, as well as the increased shielding capability of a balanced connection.
I thought it was because it has a separate ground connection...

dBe

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #96 on: 23 Mar 2010, 09:58 pm »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that balanced connections generally were at a higher "wattage" than RCA's and therefore had a better signal to noise ratio. And that's where the improvement was to be found, as well as the increased shielding capability of a balanced connection.
Guys, balanced has many technical advantages over single ended cabling but the primary one is that there is common mode rejection of noise picked up on the cold (-) and the hot (+) swung around the ground.  You can run very long balanced lines without picking up extraneous noise.  Here is the quick and dirty explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_line

There are other advantages to balanced lines, but there are advantages to single ended operation, too.  It is all about trade offs in audio.  You choose your methodology based upon those trade offs.

Dave

mjosef

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #97 on: 23 Mar 2010, 10:17 pm »
Wow...a guarantee...now is it an iron-clad guarantee, or is there an asterisk* with print so fine only eagle eye can read it?
Is shipping part of the money back guarantee? Would your IC beat my Grovers'?

mcullinan

Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #98 on: 23 Mar 2010, 11:08 pm »
I have the Grovers too... albeit still breaking in. They are pretty dang good so far.
M

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Best Audio Cables in the World!!! Guaranteed!!!
« Reply #99 on: 24 Mar 2010, 02:14 am »
Wow!

This thread just got interesting. Especially the technical discourse between dBe and NagysAudio.

Keep it up. Some of it is educational!

Anand.