[stevenkelby]

Hi Guys,

Been trying to build a Super V since before it was called the Venue, over a year now, and it's finally coming together. I thought I'd start a thread partly as a record of the build for anyone interested, and to get advice on the actual building and finishing.

Just want to get something up quickly or I'll never start a thread

Yesterday I got a flat pack from Elemental Designs. Made from Baltic Birch, it's 17mm (0.66") thick pieces, laminated to 34mm (1.33") for the front and sides.

I wanted baltic birch ply as I like this edge style (not the veneer colour shown here though):



I also like the idea of staining and clear coating it, shows a nice grain on the front and sides. I was thinking of trying for a stain to match my turntable but haven't decided how to finish yet, could be anything, open to ideas!



Took a few months more than promised but that's actually really good for this industry! Eric (Eargasm) and Denny (DayglowOrange) both messed me around for months on end, always promising to have a quote/info/anything to show or answers to questions perpetually "next week".

Brett from Elemental was great to deal with and I'd recommend them.

The flat pack weighed 160kg, came on a pallet and was well packed. There is a tiny bit of damage on 1 corner but that's fine as none of the pieces have the round over I wanted anyway (only flaw I see so far), and when I get that done here it will remove the damage bit. There are a couple pieces cut on a very fine angle that are a little damaged too but not bad and plywood isn't as strong as MDF in very thin pieces. Pics below.

The base is to suit 3 feet, there is a little window box in top for the crossover and they supplied bits for amp boxes. Also has full grills front and rear, inspired by this one (rear grill not shown):








The drawing by Elemental:




Pics:




















Not sure if I'll build and finish myself or get it done here. Also still waiting on the coaxials from Danny to be shipped.

More to come, any questions, please ask

[2bigears]

   looks good,they even make the amp boxes for you ?? i might have to check out Elemental,as that Denny guy is a total rip-off,took my 850 bucks a long time ago and is not even answering his phone anymore.i started a claim with paypal on his ass. i hate rip-offs.....

[ichillpill]

How much was the flatpack and shipping?

[Nick77]

Wow! I dont know what you paid but that sure looks like nice work! 

[Danny Richie]

Dang! Those look good.

[Hank]

Regarding finishing of veneer, my personal rule of thumb is that oil finish pops the grain the best, but is the least protective finsh.  Polyurethane is the most protective easy finish.  I always do my hand-rubbed Danish oil finish. Have fun building and then enjoy the music! 

[WGH]

The Danish oil finishes can look terrific but it can take weeks before the coating builds up to an acceptable finish so I haven't used straight oil for some time.

Old time woodworkers always used a 1-2-3 finish for interior furniture, it builds quicker, offers more protection and has a pleasant smell.

1 part boiled linseed oil
2 parts varnish, a varnish with a high percentage of solids like spar varnish work best, no polyurethanes please.
3 parts turpentine

Mix in a jar, brush on a coat and let soak in, then wipe off the excess, let dry over night. Repeat.
The first coat will take about 45 minutes to thicken before wiping off.
Subsequent coats will thicken sooner.
Don't let it dry on the cabinet or you will be in big trouble.
While wet, sand the 2nd and 3 coats using #220 or finer wet/dry sandpaper.

After the final coat dries for a couple of days wax the cabinet with a good quality furniture paste wax applied with 0000 steel wool and buff.

A word of caution: rags soaked with any oil i.e.: linseed, Deft, Watco, tung, etc. will spontaneous combust so make sure the rage are completely submerged in water in an air tight container or hung on a fence or line well away from anything that will burn. I have seen rags catch fire, triple check your finishing area for rags before leaving for the day.

Wayne

[stevenkelby]

I just spent an hour going through the pieces of wood and the drawings Brett sent me this morning with all measurements converted to mm (thanks!), test assembling a couple bits and understanding how it fits together. I have to say, they did a great job with the designing and cutting, accuracy looks as close to perfect as I can measure.

The grills look really great and that's 90% of what I'll see when listening.

Here are pics of the assembly for reference:





The magnets for the grills need gluing in place, I think I'll use construction glue to hold them in, probably will use titebond II, ordering some tonight.

Don't have many clamps so may get a cabinet maker friend to help glue them.

The grills for the front and rear of the subs are magnetic, the grill in front of the coaxial is plastic push in snap lock lug things, not sure why no magnets there but they do look good quality.

Yes I got bits for the amp boxes too Just 5 pieces and the amp screws into the edges of the box.

PMs sent re the cost. Shipping was expensive to Australia but nothing can be done about that, Brett got me the best price.

Not sure if I should post the cost here but happy to answer any PMs with all info It was certainly very competitive with other prices mentioned, especially considering it's baltic birch.

All up with all the shipping and then deciding to upgrade the coax drivers and crossovers to Super V spec , this is going to be an expensive project but great value if they look and sound as good as I think they will.

Have a custom integrated Dodd amp coming too

Thanks for the tips on finishing, I think I'll have these for a loooong time so want to get a fimish I will be happy with for good.

Brett sent a bunch of scraps for me to test differet finishes on.

I'm going to take my time deciding on a finish and make lots of samples first, don't want to rush a half baked finish.

Hank and WGH, I really appreciate the input and think I'll need a lot more before this is done!

That 1-2-3 and wax finish sounds like what was done on the turntable which looks beuatiful and very smooth, satin, almost high gloss but not very protective, so long term maybe a poly will be better.

I also like the idea of a thick, very glossy, hard and mirror smooth top coat on them so anything will wipe off for years to come and still look good.

Would a stain and then lots of coats poly work well?

That 1-2-3 finish may not be what's done to the TT though, could be danish oil or something.

I will certainly do a sample of the 1-2-3 anyway.

Another point is color, can I use a colored varnish with the 1-2-3 method?

I may like some red/orange color to match the cocobolo on my turntable, in first post.

Any pics of the different finishes, anything to read or samples I can buy would be much appreciated!
 

[WGH]

Another point is color, can I use a colored varnish with the 1-2-3 method?

Yes, you can add color. The oil/varnish mix is a starting point that can be modified depending on the results you want to achieve. Polyurethane is a stronger and more durable top coat but getting a glass smooth finish without brush marks is extremely hard to do. Call around local cabinet shops and see who has a spray booth, with the economic slowdown you may be able to get a professional to spray a catalyzed varnish for a good price. I always hire a buddy to do my spraying, he has years of experience and the work comes out perfect.

Wayne

[tasar]

Steve.....as an added note. The much overlooked Formby product line has the same attributes as the 1-2-3 process. I've used this product for years, including high end furniture. Simply wipe on, dry, fine steel wool between coats, and presto ! This is a no-brainer product, has a hard durable finish, and unlike the poly coats, very (make that), VERY easy to repair !

[Christof]

The Danish oil finishes can look terrific but it can take weeks before the coating builds up to an acceptable finish so I haven't used straight oil for some time.

Old time woodworkers always used a 1-2-3 finish for interior furniture, it builds quicker, offers more protection and has a pleasant smell.

1 part boiled linseed oil
2 parts varnish, a varnish with a high percentage of solids like spar varnish work best, no polyurethanes please.
3 parts turpentine

Mix in a jar, brush on a coat and let soak in, then wipe off the excess, let dry over night. Repeat.
The first coat will take about 45 minutes to thicken before wiping off.
Subsequent coats will thicken sooner.
Don't let it dry on the cabinet or you will be in big trouble.
While wet, sand the 2nd and 3 coats using #220 or finer wet/dry sandpaper.

After the final coat dries for a couple of days wax the cabinet with a good quality furniture paste wax applied with 0000 steel wool and buff.

A word of caution: rags soaked with any oil i.e.: linseed, Deft, Watco, tung, etc. will spontaneous combust so make sure the rage are completely submerged in water in an air tight container or hung on a fence or line well away from anything that will burn. I have seen rags catch fire, triple check your finishing area for rags before leaving for the day.

Wayne

I use something very similar...
Apply 4 coats of thinned Waterlox then final coat with 2 parts quick dry varnish, 1part BLO & 1 part paste wood filler....apply with rag let gel for 15min then wipe off.  Wayne is right about the rags...get them the hell out of your house or shop.  I had stain rags catch fire last Friday in my shop after they had been spread out to dry for 24hrs...had I not seen the smoke pouring out of the trash box next to a pile of wood everything I own would be gone right now.

[WGH]

Sounds like a close call Chris, glad you caught it in time.

More fun with Waterlox:

Melt 1/2 cup Trewax or other high quality paste wax in a double boiler. Use a hot plate for heat, no open flames please.

When the wax is melted add 1/2 cup Waterlox, stir and remove from heat.

Apply with 0000 steel wool then buff with a soft cotton cloth

Let dry over night and you get a finish that feels smooth like wax but with the durability of Waterlox.

[BrianH]

You might also want to check around and see if anyone near you can apply "Acrylic Urethane", application is really best left to pro's however, you need special respirators.  Its used for cars among other things. Its an idea anyway.

[stevenkelby]

Thanks for all the ideas, trying to research them all!

Leaning toward a finish that is very thick and glass smooth, extremely high gloss.

Will probably get a shop to do the finish too now I've thought about it more, I don't have the facilities or skills.

I like this style, made from baltic birch and laminated so only the edges are shown, which is what the side panels of a Super V look like from the chair. I'm sure the flat surfaces woul look good too. Not sure how it's done but apparently it's a tye of violin finish? Poly? Acrylic? I love the color. How would one do this:








Check this out, might get the backs of teh coax driver mount panels routed like this, thoughts?

[HT cOz]

Sounds like a close call Chris, glad you caught it in time.

More fun with Waterlox:

Melt 1/2 cup Trewax or other high quality paste wax in a double boiler. Use a hot plate for heat, no open flames please.

When the wax is melted add 1/2 cup Waterlox, stir and remove from heat.

Apply with 0000 steel wool then buff with a soft cotton cloth

Let dry over night and you get a finish that feels smooth like wax but with the durability of Waterlox.

This sounds interesting.  How would you add color to this process?

[WGH]

The Waterlox/Wax finish is the final buffing top coat. I use it after I stain and finish the wood with 3-4 coats of an oil/varnish mix. I wouldn't use the Waterlox/Wax as the first coat on bare wood or on top of a polyurethane or lacquer finish.

Wayne

[Christof]

The Waterlox/Wax finish is the final buffing top coat. I use it after I stain and finish the wood with 3-4 coats of an oil/varnish mix. I wouldn't use the Waterlox/Wax as the first coat on bare wood or on top of a polyurethane or lacquer finish.

Wayne

Wayne
Would this work on top of 4-5 coats of thinned Waterlox as the base coats?

[WGH]

Wayne
Would this work on top of 4-5 coats of thinned Waterlox as the base coats?

It sure wood. 

[tasar]

Chris...wondered if you had a build sheet and material types for your V build. Solid wood, MDF, ply and best use in this construction ?

[johnnycopy]

Thanks for all the ideas, trying to research them all!

Leaning toward a finish that is very thick and glass smooth, extremely high gloss.

Will probably get a shop to do the finish too now I've thought about it more, I don't have the facilities or skills.

I like this style, made from baltic birch and laminated so only the edges are shown, which is what the side panels of a Super V look like from the chair. I'm sure the flat surfaces woul look good too. Not sure how it's done but apparently it's a tye of violin finish? Poly? Acrylic? I love the color. How would one do this:








Check this out, might get the backs of teh coax driver mount panels routed like this, thoughts?

Attempting that finish without the proper equipment, a person who has done this before to success, is a major waste or raw product, and a pain in the a**.  I had the speakers refinished to a simpler gloss black and love everything about them now. They are awesome. Just got a bit ahead of myself in initial look and feel.

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2399