Music Server

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James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #40 on: 20 Apr 2010, 03:20 pm »


Just an AES-EBU digital output to plug into our DAC.

james

sfraser

Re: Music Server
« Reply #41 on: 20 Apr 2010, 03:31 pm »
Just an AES-EBU digital output to plug into our DAC.

james

Thanks for the quick reply James, but what methods (client protocols) will it have available to access files on remote servers?

James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #42 on: 20 Apr 2010, 03:39 pm »
Thanks for the quick reply James, but what methods (client protocols) will it have available to access files on remote servers?

Hi - I am finding out but I believe the only way to access files is with a hardwired plug in NAS drive or USB drives.

james

James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #43 on: 20 Apr 2010, 09:43 pm »
From engineering for sfraser:

We support nfs. We don't support samba on the player, primarily because of config hassels for users.

The server would support both usnig nfs to talk to the player. We can also support upnp\dlna and squeezecenter on the server. We want to keep that off the player to keep the overhead low.

Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #44 on: 21 Apr 2010, 03:16 am »
Any news on the remote? Will we see a new remote coming with it?

Thanks,
Nap.  :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #45 on: 21 Apr 2010, 03:58 am »
Any news on the remote? Will we see a new remote coming with it?

Thanks,
Nap.  :thumb:

Hi,

No remote needed as you use an itouch/iphone or web browser to 'see' and control your files on the network.

 
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2010, 02:16 pm by James Tanner »

sfraser

Re: Music Server
« Reply #46 on: 21 Apr 2010, 04:00 pm »
From engineering for sfraser:

We support nfs. We don't support samba on the player, primarily because of config hassels for users.

The server would support both usnig nfs to talk to the player. We can also support upnp\dlna and squeezecenter on the server. We want to keep that off the player to keep the overhead low.

James, I guess i need to reread this entire thread, because i am a little confused...more than normal  :o. I thought the product you were introducing is a "box" that will decode music files. These music files could be streamed from a directly connected USB source or from a remote location via the ethernet interface. This box would have a jitter buffer and decode the music files to PCM format  before sending it out a digital interface to a DAC. In this scenario the remote ethernet location could be the customers PC or NAS etc. Hence why i was asking what protocol's (NFS/SAMBA)  would be used to access the music files if they were stored on a remote ethernet connected  host.

However from what you stated above it sounds like you also have a server component as well? If so, is this component simply software installed on the customers host containing the music files ?  Or is it an actual piece of hardware ?

Dazed and confused in Ottawa

Thanks !

Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #47 on: 21 Apr 2010, 04:55 pm »
I have a bad feeling that this product will be quickly forgotten....  :scratch:

Just my 2 cents: I feel at ease spending big bucks on timeless stuff like analog (pre)amplifiers as I know that they're here to stay for the long run. They won't go "obsolete" any time soon.

I would even spend big bucks on a good CD player, except I don't really like expensive stuff with finicky mechanical parts. I guess a cheaper CD unit + an expensive DAC would fit my taste better. Bryston has both of these covered well so they'll eventually get my money, one way or the other. I don't think that the CD format will disappear any time soon. Yes, the big corps are whining of declining sales.... but hey, I already re-bought my whole pre-CD era collection, what are they expecting from me now? buying a second copy? I'm buying only new releases that I really like. Which is a rare event these days.

I learned the hard way that anything that has to do with digital protocols, interfaces, software etc. will be "obsoleted" intentionally by the big corps that are setting the standards. They need fresh patents and licenses, don't they. (I only can guess a second reason for which Bryston is not embracing Samba - risk of litigation by a certain company in Seattle).

Nap.  :thumb:

sfraser

Re: Music Server
« Reply #48 on: 21 Apr 2010, 05:29 pm »
I have a bad feeling that this product will be quickly forgotten....  :scratch:

Just my 2 cents: I feel at ease spending big bucks on timeless stuff like analog (pre)amplifiers as I know that they're here to stay for the long run. They won't go "obsolete" any time soon.

I would even spend big bucks on a good CD player, except I don't really like expensive stuff with finicky mechanical parts. I guess a cheaper CD unit + an expensive DAC would fit my taste better. Bryston has both of these covered well so they'll eventually get my money, one way or the other. I don't think that the CD format will disappear any time soon. Yes, the big corps are whining of declining sales.... but hey, I already re-bought my whole pre-CD era collection, what are they expecting from me now? buying a second copy? I'm buying only new releases that I really like. Which is a rare event these days.

I learned the hard way that anything that has to do with digital protocols, interfaces, software etc. will be "obsoleted" intentionally by the big corps that are setting the standards. They need fresh patents and licenses, don't they. (I only can guess a second reason for which Bryston is not embracing Samba - risk of litigation by a certain company in Seattle).

Nap.  :thumb:

I disagree, I think a box that can stream media independent music is the future . I'm sure the Engineers in Peterbourgh  will make the box flexible enough to handle any new Hi Def music  standards. Regarding SAMBA support, I don't want to 2nd guess James, but i think maybe it is the other way around. The unit supports SAMBA but not NFS. SAMBA is pretty universally supported on most OS's while NFS server is usually limited to UNIX/Linux hosts. SAMBA is usually easier to configure as well. I will hold off on further comments until James replies and I have a better understanding of the product offering.

Cheers,

Anonamemouse

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #49 on: 21 Apr 2010, 05:43 pm »
unfortunately i think i have to agree with napalm.

the reason for this: http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/ .

the sooloos basically has everything the bryston server does not have...

  • the sooloos has hard disks, which can be changed in the blink of an eye.
  • the sooloos allows for more storage by either adding disks or putting in a larger one.
  • the sooloos has a touch screen, complete with pictures of the cd covers and additional info.
  • the sooloos can communicate with your computer and do stuff online.
  • the sooloos has both an analog and a digital output.
  • plus the rest...

all things that will make it sell. knowing meridian the quality will be of a decent, if not high end level.

from a personal point of view: if i would buy something like this, i'd also go for ease... i do not have any product that starts with an "i" and comes from a fruit company (i need my phone and computer for work, playing games is for my kids), and to start up my computer just to play a song... not likely gonna happen...

sfraser

Re: Music Server
« Reply #50 on: 21 Apr 2010, 05:54 pm »
unfortunately i think i have to agree with napalm.

the reason for this: http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/ .

the sooloos basically has everything the bryston server does not have...

  • the sooloos has hard disks, which can be changed in the blink of an eye.
  • the sooloos allows for more storage by either adding disks or putting in a larger one.
  • the sooloos has a touch screen, complete with pictures of the cd covers and additional info.
  • the sooloos can communicate with your computer and do stuff online.
  • the sooloos has both an analog and a digital output.
  • plus the rest...

all things that will make it sell. knowing meridian the quality will be of a decent, if not high end level.

from a personal point of view: if i would buy something like this, i'd also go for ease... i do not have any product that starts with an "i" and comes from a fruit company (i need my phone and computer for work, playing games is for my kids), and to start up my computer just to play a song... not likely gonna happen...

I seen the meridian system in Anthwerp last year. It was pretty cool! I have been using the squeezebox's for years and I love them. Both systems require a music host, unless you are streaming music from the internet, which will probably become the norm real soon.


Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #51 on: 21 Apr 2010, 06:04 pm »
Or you could just buy a dedicated notebook computer for feeding your Bryston DAC.....  you could use the "stand-by" or "hibernate" mode to cut off from booting time... and an iPod touch as a remote....

I personally don't see any reason for "streaming" something around the house. So maybe this is the reason of my skepticism.

Nap.

James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #52 on: 21 Apr 2010, 06:44 pm »
OK guys this is the preliminary literature but it will give you an idea where we are gong with this:


Bryston BDP-1 (Bryston Digital Player)

PREAMBLE:

We are entering a new age for music enjoyment. We have an ability to reproduce recorded music with more accuracy and faithfulness than ever before. This has been enabled by the recent developments on recording and distributing music in ‘high resolution’ computer readable formats. Until recently any new format required an extensive infrastructure to get launched and need the cooperation of a complete chain of contributors and well as major investments to get underway. But with the continually increasing power of the personal computer and media like the internet and recordable DVD’s it is now possible to distribute the highest resolution audio to anyone with the desire to play it.

However this has also lead to a proliferation of different ways of “consuming” this new content. The pioneers started by building and re-purposing the Digital Audio Workstations that were originally developed to edit the new high resolution files. Those have proven very clumsy for simply playing some music. And they compromise the potential audio performance with many additional and redundant features that contribute little to quality playback of audio. There have been several programs written that enable standard PC’s to become very complex Jukeboxes with endless play lists and user interfaces that resemble computer spreadsheets.  These have been mated to premium professional sound cards to make decent playback systems, but they are complex with many components to master and lots of details to confront before actually playing music. Others have taken the fundamental ability of a computer to do almost anything and have built dedicated systems that can do all of the identified tasks of playing digital audio, including ripping content, managing storage, cleaver user interfaces in the same box that is struggling to play the audio files faithfully.
 
Many digital playback systems incorporate an ‘all in one’ approach to digital playback where the computer has the operating system (Windows or MAC), the video interface, the CD ripper/player, the mother board, the soundcard and the DAC’s contained in one chassis. (Think of this approach more as an audio ‘receiver’ rather than the more performance oriented approach of independent tuner, preamplifier and power amplifier in order to optimize performance in each specific area.) This receiver approach is fine for what it is as it allows for a very easy solution for someone who is looking for ease of use.  The problem is the performance suffers due to issues of noise and distortion created by this all in one approach. The computer is a great tool for searching and downloading content, but it becomes a cumbersome tool for playback of quality content. The Bryston Player is much easier to use in practice than a typical multipurpose desktop interface.

BRYSTON BDP-1:
We addressed this process differently. We broke the different tasks apart and dedicated our efforts on the stages that we can bring the most value and performance to. We also felt (in the tradition of component audio) that a dedicated one-function device can do a task much better than the “Swiss Army Knife” personal computer approach. 

The Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player single function is to stream digital music files from a storage source. To do this most efficiently, we use a Linux operating system optimized in ways only possible in Linux to provide the highest quality audio performance. Its motherboard is of industrial quality that uses only about 20% of its computing power. The soundcard is one of the finest available and the AES-EBU Balanced output section provides for the highest possible performance when connected to the AES-EBU input on the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC. We also incorporate electronic isolation of audio components from computer components and use galvanic isolation to isolate and avoid charge-carrying particles moving from one section to another.

WHAT IT “DOES”: The Bryston BDP-1 Player focuses on playing high resolution files and will support 16 bit and 24 bit files with the following sample rates: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz& 192KHz. It brings in the digital files from a USB device (the CD of the 21’st century) or an external hard drive or (NAS) drive over a hardwired Ethernet cable. The BDP-1 Digital Player allows for all resolutions from 44.1 to 192/24bit files to be played back with superb performance. It reproduces the digital content in its native sample rate and bit depth and outputs the data stream to the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC through a high performance dedicated AES-EBU balanced output. It processes digital music files at a performance level unattainable with other approaches.

Externally, the BDP-1 is a technically sophisticated component incorporating state of the art solid-state electronics which links up to your home network and may be controlled by a variety of graphic interface devices (eg, lap-top, PC, PDA, iPhone etc.). The BDP-1’s graphic interface operates under "open source" software protocols, ensuring long term future proofing and compatibility with the widest possible range of other digital devices as they are developed.

Internally, the Bryston BDP-1 music player employs a fan-less motherboard with an integrated processor. It runs an extremely pared down embedded version of the “Linux” operating system (as opposed to Windows or MAC OS). It boots in read-only mode so you cannot accidentally or purposely cause a system failure. Hardwired connections using either a USB drive or an Ethernet connection is utilized to ensure no drop-outs when listening to high-resolution files. All it takes is your iPod or iPhone* plus a router on your local network to show and manage your play lists. You also can monitor and control your BDP-1 through an internet network control using a router and web based interface (EX: Firefox and Minion).

As we have stated above the Bryston BDP-1 Digital Music Player uses any direct coupled USB (thumb drive)) ‘storage source’ or our dedicated network connected enhanced storage system and can play all high resolution AIFF, FLAC and WAV files up to and including native 192/24 bit files. Music must be ripped using a different computer running any operating system and any ripping program the end user is comfortable with. Playback can be controlled via numerous methods. A popular option will be the iPod Touch or iPhone. 

WHAT IT “DOES NOT DO”: The BDP-1 Digital Player doesn’t rip content, doesn’t clean up your data, doesn’t display its playlists on a built in screen, and doesn’t rip files. This is because it has no fancy display screen, no hard drive, and no CD drawer or Ripper, and no Wireless Streaming. It boots from flash memory with a read only file system.

PLAYING MUSIC FILES:
In conclusion, the easiest way to understand the Bryston Digital Music Player is to think of it as an 21st century updated CD player. Instead of CD’s as the music source, it utilizes your USB thumb drives or USB hard-drives as the music source or a dedicated file server through hardwired Ethernet using your computers browser as your interface.  The Bryston BDP-1 is designed to interface between your ‘music library’ and a high quality external DAC (Bryston BDA-1). The “component” chain works out as follows- The Bryston BDP-1 Player brings in the digital files from a USB device or a network hard drive (via an Ethernet cable) to stream digital music content in its native sample rate and bit depth (currently 44.1Khz/16bit to 192KHz/24Bit). It outputs the data stream to the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC through a high performance dedicated AES-EBU balanced output.

The Bryston DAC continues this focus on function specific design, again concentrating on doing the specific task well. This combination will provide you with a state of the art high-resolution music playback system.

Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #53 on: 21 Apr 2010, 07:05 pm »
Let's see if I got it right:

I get the BDP-1, attach to it an external 2.5" USB pocket drive with .wav files on it, and use an iPod as a remote to select which files I'm sending from the BDP-1 to the BDA-1?

All this with the notable advantages over a standard notebook that I don't have noisy fans and viruses?

Mhh sounds good, but price would be an important factor.

Nap.  :thumb:


James Tanner

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #54 on: 21 Apr 2010, 07:22 pm »
Let's see if I got it right:

I get the BDP-1, attach to it an external 2.5" USB pocket drive with .wav files on it, and use an iPod as a remote to select which files I'm sending from the BDP-1 to the BDA-1?

All this with the notable advantages over a standard notebook that I don't have noisy fans and viruses?

Mhh sounds good, but price would be an important factor.

Nap.  :thumb:


Hi Nap - correct - you can also use your web browser through your home network to access the files on the thumb drive.

james

sfraser

Re: Music Server
« Reply #55 on: 21 Apr 2010, 07:47 pm »
Excellent! I love it.

James as a suggestion, you might want to revisit support for microsoft shares.  As your Engineers know, most commercial NAS's do indeed support NFS Client/Server protocol and it  looks like NFS Client would be  used on the BDP-1 to access and stream the files off the NAS which is running the NFS server protocol . However  I would suspect that many potential customers may have their music located on a PC somewhere in the house. This PC will likely be running a Microsoft OS which uses SAMBA/cifs, which everyone uses to share "shares".  I'm not sure if you would want to isolate that section of the market?

BTW most other OS's support SAMBA and the "workgroup" concept as well. I have a product similar to the BDP-1 for streaming Hi-def videos. This product is running Linux as well and has a network browser function which will list all the advertised shares on my home network. I can highlight/mount  the share i want (on another Linux host) and then start streaming videos. Under this scenario I can stream video at 40 mbps.

Cheers,

Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #56 on: 21 Apr 2010, 08:07 pm »

Hi Nap - correct - you can also use your web browser through your home network to access the files on the thumb drive.

james

Thank you, Sir!

Interesting to see how varied are the peoples preferences when it comes to a "media player".

I personally am a caveman that would be fine with just a simple IR remote with "album forward/back" "track forward/back"......

Others can't live without touchscreens....

As a matter of personal preference, I would go for something like this:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200106&CTID=5002200

if it had a good DAC and user-replaceable/upgradeable hard disks.....

Nap.  :thumb:


skunark

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Re: Music Server
« Reply #57 on: 21 Apr 2010, 08:25 pm »
I assume it does support SAMBA or DLNA to access the content and James just got it wrong. (James can you double check?)  There's not a lot of support for NFS these days as it's hard to implement a safe and secure connection and honestly it just doesn't sound right.    SAMBA or DLNA are both too universal to ignore and even Apple's Bonjour should be considered as a lot of new NAS boxes support just those three protocols.   If it was a new frills box, then it should at least support DLNA over SAMBA and Bonjour, but that would limit your customer base.

I didn't see MP3 or AAC mentioned below and since those are extremely common formats for compressed audio it's probably worth supporting even though this product is really for the better than cd-quality formats.  Also is there support for ALAC, WMA (lossless) and Musepack?   I would be curious about the SACD formats as well and like DSD and DST.   

Is there a certain app for the iPod Touch/iPhone or would we just use a web-browser pointing to the BDP-1.

I do think this product is very exciting especially if it uses DLNA/Bonjour to find the songs over a network.  This would give me a single solution across the house whether it is iTunes, PS3, XBOX in the kids room or the BDP-1 in the listening room :) and I can have my own storage solution.  A fan-less solution to me is a must and hopefully since it is Linux there will be support for future codecs as the become available.

Napalm

Re: Music Server
« Reply #58 on: 21 Apr 2010, 08:38 pm »

DLNA is all about this:

"DLNA has identified DRM interoperability as the core charter"

http://www.dlna.org/industry/why_dlna/key_components/drm/

First, the big corporations created the issue out of thin air with all their heavily patented and proprietary DRM schemes. After many battles for supremacy they realized that there was no clear winner and no de facto standard to license to others, so now they created yet another "standard".

Nap.  :thumb:


werd

Re: Music Server
« Reply #59 on: 21 Apr 2010, 08:48 pm »
Hi James

Sounds great, any chance of this running on lithium battery?