Modded Panasonic SA-XR 45 listening session

dm · « **Reply #100 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 05:33 pm »

As noted above I have a XR45 on the way. I also ordered a 2 to 3 prong IEC power cord adapter.

If I am DIY building a powercord, should I wire in a safety ground wire and attach it to the chassis of the XR45, maybe screw it into the ground wire screw for the antenna hook up on the back of the XR45? Or should I just leave the safety ground wire connected to the IEC female plug on my cord?

jasonc · « **Reply #101 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 05:44 pm »

dm,
Where did you get the adapter from?
Thanks.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #102 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 06:00 pm »

About to place order with Computer4sure but I don't see where you enter the coupon info. I'm at the finalize order section of the checkout.

dm · « **Reply #103 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 06:01 pm »

http://www.redcobracable.com/product.asp?id=03-0014

ordered, expecting it to arrive on monday as well. Price was cheap, don't know about the quality yet, since I have not received it yet. You can specify the polarized plug adapter which I believe is a better fit for the XR45.

dm · « **Reply #104 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: Mathew_M

About to place order with Computer4sure but I don't see where you enter the coupon info. I'm at the finalize order section of the checkout.

On the very first shopping cart screen look for a little HTML link in the right hand column that is buried in the text :

"If you have an offer code for a special discount or promotion, click here to enter it before continuing through checkout. "

Here is the direct link, I don't know if it will work by clicking here:

http://www.computers4sure.com/offercode.asp

You likely need to allow cookies in your browser for the session to work.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #105 on:** 24 Jan 2004, 06:07 pm »

Got it.

Thanks.

Did you order the power adaptor from the same place? If so do you have a link?

azryan · « **Reply #106 on:** 25 Jan 2004, 05:33 am »

Here's a link to my initial impression of the XR25 when I got it at the end of last Sept.
Note -Zero reply posts! heheh

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=4961&highlight=pannie+xr25&sid=690466b8e6d0559ed855a4ea0e8b2ad2

Note the line -"-Clearly this Pannie's not better sounding than my system that still has A/D/A conversions in it, but maybe if the parts around these systems are more mid/hi fi than what's in this low end player that it might really be a future giant killer??-"

Looks like that's exactly what's being done here.

Hope it didn't sound like I was giving you a hard time Wayne over that 25 vs. 45 issue.

I ordered the XR45 now and hope a final work-up for exactly what the mod will be and cost will happen soon.
Sure seems like you're still trying several diff. things still. Do you think the ~$700 price will stay the same?

So what do you think about the speaker outputs? Are you going to put binding posts out for all the channels so it'll be a quality output from all 6 channels or just the main channels?

I'd like to see all 6 get 'fixed' esp. so I could quickly swap cables on the back to switch from HT DVD use to bi-amp stereo 'Party' mode.

BTW... I just tried that Party mode today.
I feel so stupid for not thinking of doing that before.

At least on the stock XR25 it really made a very good difference.

Even when I'm listening in stereo/LARGE and only using the main 100W amps I don't need this thing louder than -30 to -20 to really get pretty loud so it's not like I didn't have enough power to the speakers before, but bi-amped from the main PLUS surround amps was a lot tighter, cleaner on the bottom end and improved the mids and the highs seemed smoother -though overall I'm still not bowled over by it, but then it's neither the XR45 nor modded.

I tried a Stereo Review test CD I had too that helped me be sure that mode didn't mess up the signal at all and it seemed not to (just to back up what others have found).

spectralman · « **Reply #107 on:** 26 Jan 2004, 09:57 pm »

Well, I decided to take the plunge too. I just ordered mine from J & R for $299.88 with free shipping. I am just in the beginning stages of putting a HT system together and was debating which way to go as far as an AV receiver vs, separates. After hearing about Wayne's mods, the deal was sealed. Also just purchased a used pair of VMPS 626's for L & R, will add more of them as center and surrounds along with (probably) a Rava sub as finances allow.

ABEX · « **Reply #108 on:** 27 Jan 2004, 01:20 am »

PC Adaptors can be bought at several places.

The least exensive is from:
www.redcobracable.com

Anton K. · « **Reply #109 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 09:07 am »

Dear Wayne,
will you offer mods for European XR45 (220V)?
Specifically, to reduce shipping costs, are you interested in buying american version of xr 45 for me, and along with your mods change it for 220v voltage?
Money prepaid of course.

Brdgs, Anton

gme109 · « **Reply #110 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 01:04 am »

Quote from: Tyson

1. I've heard a very good digital amp in my system (Spectron Musician II), and while impressive in many areas, it did not equal the Panny.

...

I think this would be a hard call to make for several reasons.

1) It was probably 6 or more months ago that I brought my Spectron over to your place. So this was not a side by side comparison but one made by memory. And you keep forgetting to take your Gingko:-)

2) Most of the listening was done with my XLO interconnect. I have since replace it with a much better sounding cable. The XLO definitely had a bright, whitish sound to it that emphasize the leading edge of the music. The Crystal Clear Audio ic does not emphasize the leading edge of the music as much as the XLO did, it also allows the middle of the note to develop more bloom. Whatever criticisms I had about the Spectron have completely vanished.

3) I don't believe you even sat in the sweet spot if my memory servers me right.

When you get the Panny modified I would like to do a side by side comparison. It should be interesting.

Gary

Tyson · « **Reply #111 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 01:20 am »

Hello Gary! I'm glad you came by cause I lost your email and wanted to see if you wanted to get together again. I'd love to do a side by side once I get my stock panny modded.

I could take the Panny by your place, since it's so light and portable, or if you want to, you are certainly welcome to come by my place this Saturday and bring the Spectron, I'd be very interested to hear it again, especially with the new IC's.

Plus, I just got some GREAT new scotch (Balvanie 21 year old Port Wood, and Highland Park 18 year old) that I'd be willing to share

azryan · « **Reply #112 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 06:01 pm »

"-Most of the listening was done with my XLO interconnect.-"

Well, then that cable has to also be factored into the cost of the Spectron.

Also how do you REALLY sort through so many other variables like which preamp is connected to the Spectron and feed by which DAC, etc....

Someone somewhere wil tell you that their DAC and preamp are a better match for that Spectron just like you noted that this 'new' cable is actually the one that needs to be used.

In the end it's all really a mess no matter how much we try to compare things in TOTAL fairness.

IMO, only DAC to DAC, preamp to preamp, amp to amp, etc... in the exact same system can really be compared fairly and then in the end you still only REALLY know how it sounds in that one system and room.

None of us can get away from mostly just trying our best to use logical guesstimation to say much of anything about audio gear IMO.

Or am I the only one full of crap? hehe

OBF · « **Reply #113 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 08:46 pm »

Can the Panasonic drive "normal" speakers (like mid 80s efficient) to loud levels, like 95db with 100db peaks?

I don't know how the volume control works, but the power output rating is about the same as the Sony C700 which could only produce a very dissapointing 90db (approx) average at full volume. The HK 1001 is pretty similar to the Sony in output SPLs.

Do you need to biamp to get high SPLs, or do you just get tighter bass control?

Thanks,
OBF

Wayne1 · « **Reply #114 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 09:27 pm »

OBF,

The Panny had no trouble driving mgalusha's Vandersteen's which are rated 85-86 db efficient.

Comments are here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=6281&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

We ran them through about 25 feet or so of flat speaker wire, nothing fancy. The Panny was driving them with just two channels. It was not used in bi-amp.

azryan · « **Reply #115 on:** 29 Jan 2004, 11:30 pm »

Say a speaker is an 85db avg. and you sit about 9-12' away.
With one Watt on it it should be about 76-73db at your couch.

-note- your room will add to this a bit too depending on how far from 'totally dead' it is. This math crap never seems to totally work out right in the real world.

10 Watts will hit you with ~86-83db.
100 Watts will get you up to ~96-93db.

Biamping should get you double the power, though that is only 3db louder, but real world the power supply will effect this too.

Digital amps don't seem to clip when maxed out, they just don't get any louder so where you might risk clipping another amp but w/ the Pannie you only risk the MUCH nicer effect 'compression'.
And being that it's already outstandingly dynamic compared to a typical Rec... you might not even tell if it began to compress on real loud peaks?

Seems like you'll be pushing it to really hit the top SPLs you want, but looks like you should be able to do it though.

If that Sony and HK could only do about 90db then they're overrated in power or the speakers are lower effi than you thought or you're farther away than you should be. Something's not right 'cuz those 'should' hit that level too if they actually have the power.

I know the digital amp Sony 2000ES Rec. I just returned had a problem with gain and had to be a much higher level than it should have been to hit the same levels that the Pannie hits. Clearly something messed up there, but the Sony you mention is a totally diff. Rec.

If you have very low effi. speakers (and it seems you do) then you should probably not be interested in max SPL's anyway or except sitting in a nice small nearfield triangle.

Going to a ~91db speaker would be like getting 4 times the amp power from this Pannie. Hard to ignore the benefit of high effi. hey?

Running them 'small' and taking that bass off your mains will give you a nice boost in headroom too as deeper/louder bass is where the power really gets sucked up.

Hey Wayne, Tyson, or anyone w/ a XR45....

Do you guys have find what I found on the XR25 in bi-amp mode.... that you actually have to turn UP the volume ~6db to match the same SPL's as when running normal stereo just off the main amps?

Not a big deal for me 'cuz I've got LOTS of headroom (-25 to -20 is REALLY loud on most music for me), but I wonder if that might be an issue for someone like OBF here who might actually want to push this sucker to -0db sometime?

If the gain is 6db lower, but you only go from 100W to 200W. The max SPL seems like it would actually be 3db LOWER on the Pannie in bi-amp mode.
When not maxed out though you would get the benefit of more power though.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #116 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 12:04 am »

Hey Tyson, Why don't you RE-THINK your reviewing methods

It's these types of "CARELESS" reviews that make this web site SUCK at times

Your comments were way off base, not even close to reality. These "Reckless" comments could hurt someome's business and Livelihood. Think before you write your comments

zybar · « **Reply #117 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 12:43 am »

Darth Audio,

Are you being serious or joking?

What did Tyson do wrong?

GW

eico1 · « **Reply #118 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 12:57 am »

Quote from: zybar

What did Tyson do wrong?

another battle of the Scotches brewing?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #119 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 01:14 am »

The listening session for this weekend, 1/31/04, has been called off.

I just finished up working on the Panny today. It will need at least a week for the changes to break-in.

I replaced the spring clips with a pair of binding posts. It did take me quite a while to machine the plate to allow four pair of binding posts to fit on the back of the receiver. I also replaced the internal output wiring to shorten the signal path even more than it had been. I did some more work on the power supply section as well.

This is all part of evolving the mod. I am fairly sure this should be it for the two channel/bi-amp version. I will see if I can find some smaller diameter binding posts to use for the HT version. Otherwise the spring clips will have to stay.

I think the DAM and some more friends will be able to get together next Saturday. I am sorry about the delay, but with all the interest this mod has generated, I want to make sure I get it right before I start taking people's money.