[Tyson]

Actually, if he is giving me a hard time over this comment I made earlier in this thread:

1. I've heard a very good digital amp in my system (Spectron Musician II), and while impressive in many areas, it did not equal the Panny.

Then I have to agree with him, I should have qualified that statement a LOT more.

It should have read something like:

1.  I've heard the Spectron Musician II in my system a few months ago, and while I was impressed with it at the time, I did not feel it bested my AVA 550ex in a direct comparison.  The Panasonic, on the other hand, did best my 550ex and T7 and Mensa DIO, and the Panny's sound made me want to sell my AVA gear, but the Spectron did not.

.

There, I think that's a lot better, don't you?

[zybar]

Thanks for the update Wayne.

We waited this long, another week won't kill us.

 

To hold us over, any chance of taking a pic of the back with the new binding posts?

GW

[Wayne1]

[OBF]

Do you guys have find what I found on the XR25 in bi-amp mode.... that you actually have to turn UP the volume ~6db to match the same SPL's as when running normal stereo just off the main amps?

Could that be due to the power supply being halved into each channel?

I didn't actually have the HK in my system, but compared it along with the Sony at a friends.  I think it's only rated at 50 watts while the Sony is 100.  On his system, the perceived loudness was about the same for both units.  On mine, the Sony was producing average SPLs in the low 90s at max, but you could carry on a conversation without shouting and that's not my idea of loud (also used a meter).  My room is large, aprox 500 sq ft and I'm about 12' from the speakers.

But whatever, it sounds like the XR45 has more gain no matter how you slice it.  My speakers (1801s) can only handle so much before the tweeter cooks so an extra 3-4 db headroom would make me happy.

Do the power supply mods actually increase power delivery, or are they just for signal purity?

[gme109]

1. I've heard the Spectron Musician II in my system a few months ago, and while I was impressed with it at the time, I did not feel it bested my AVA 550ex in a direct comparison. The Panasonic, on the other hand, did best my 550ex and T7 and Mensa DIO, and the Panny's sound made me want to sell my AVA gear, but the Spectron did not.

Hi Tyson,

That's a fair enough statement but remember, you didn't spend much time if any in the sweet spot and the Spectron was sitting on the floor. I felt the Spectron was qutie a bit better than the AVA in several key arears. Clarity, detail, soundstaging, bass control, pace and rhythm and transparency. To the AVA's credit, I did like the fuller, warmer midrange.

One of the reasons I brought my Spectron over to your house was, I was trying to get a feel for the character of this amp. There was something in the sound of my system that I wasn't quite happy with.  I wanted to see if it was the amp that was contributing to that certain undesirable sound. By placing the amp in a different system I was hoping to pin down the character of the Spectron. As I mentioned in my eariler post, the XLO Signature ic was the MAIN curpurit of the undesirable sound. Unfortunately the XLO ic accompanied the Spectron over to your house.  I have also discovered some other tweaks that have pushed the Spectron's performance  way over the top. A Shakti Stone placed on top of the Spectron and a sheet of ERS placed underneath the unit. The Spectron is very sensitive to EMI and RFI. These two tweaks removed a layer of grunge that has alowed the Spectron to really sing. That along with a much more synergistic match for an ic have IMHO made the Spectron an amp without much if any compromise. The midrange has the warmth and bloom I was hoping to achieve and comes very close to what heard when I had a Atma-Sphere MA-1 MK.11.2 set up in my system. I say close but the Atma-Sphere was still king in this respect. The Spectron however had better macro dynamics, bass slam and a slight edge in clarity. The Atma-Sphere was one of the best amps I've ever heard. If you can put up with the heat and have the bucks, it's a riveting amp.


Gary

[jasonc]

While I'm not exactly sure when I'll be sending in my SAXR45 for Wayne to modify I tried the IEC adapter from Red Cobra Cable and found it to be pretty loose fitting.  It actually sags down a quarter inch along with the weight of my power cable.  Have others found the same to be true?  
For now I actually prefer the cheap stock cable and not just because it's a tighter fit.  To my ears it sounds a lot better than the adapter PC combo.

[Wayne1]

The listening session for this weekend will be postponed again.

I do wish to wait until Tyson can attend.

It seems that his thoughts are fairly important to a lot of folks.

I will post updates when available.

[klh]

Hi,

This is my first post with reference to the panny. I have very little engineering experience (absolutely none), but nonetheless came across the following board.  

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=c538dbab10de7c4eb918aff25ad3235c&threadid=7754&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

It is very long, very detailed and has fascinating info on TI's digital amps (including the different panny receivers)...

Wayne, if you haven't seen this thread, you should check it out. It takes a long time to get through, but there maybe some info you'd be interested in and might want to use to your benefit.

klh

[Ears]

Wayne, I removed the two channel signal ribbon cable from my 45 and added two twisted strands of Audio Consulting 24ga polyestemide coated solid silver wire.

The hint of hardness from 6 weeks of run in seems to have disapeered and the highs have opened up.
The lower mids have bloomed, and the soundstage is wider and deeper.

There is more prat along whith better micro and macro dynamics and all of this whith no run in on the AC wire which has improved even more whith 30 hours of run in using a Stereophile test disc..

In other words, everything has improved by no small margin and this hook up wire has produced everything it says it does and more in the 45.

I have never heard any wire change the sonics of any gear like this change did.

It takes about 4ft of this 3.50 a ft wire for the twisted pair on the two channels and I urge you to try it on a stock 45. unless you have accsess to similar silver whith similar dialect.

Just the 2 channel change can be clearly heard while watching a movie in 5.1 dts on my matched all Scan Speak monitors whith revelators.

When I get time, I am going to add this hookup wire to the center and rear channels also.

Greg

[Wayne1]

If you go back through my posts on the mods you will see I have changed lots of wires in the Panny. I use the same wire I use in my cables. I am not a fan of such thin wire. I use a larger gauge, that to my ears sounds betters than ANY 24 awg, in any application I have tried it in.

I am glad you like it better than stock, but you haven't heard my wire in the Panny

Just remember there are many different ways to get down the road. There is no ONE right way.

There are many things in the SA-XR45 that restrict the fullness of the sound. The internal wire is just one of them.

[Ears]

Wayne,I didn't realize you were changing the internal signal wire other than the binding post.


Anyway, I am using 2 -24 gauge twisted wires so it is not just 24 ga and had to make the board holes larger to accept this so I don't see using any larger gauge.

This is  by far the most dramatic change I have ever heard using hookup wire so the AC wire is tits

Wayne, Don't worry, I am not stopping at wire and binding post changes,I am modding the ps,digital out,signal caps and adding two more sets of binding posts were the useless s-video outputs used to be.

Wiring all binding posts,iec ect whith the AC wire also.
If I manage to not screw anything up, it should sound much improved over stock.

One thing is for shure, your price to mod this thing is if anything.....too cheap.

Greg

[Wayne1]

Greg,

Are you referring to the wire from the "main" digital board to the PS board?

That ribbon connects the outputs to the circuit board that goes to the binding posts. I bypass that whole thing and run right from the output coils to the binding posts with my 14 AWG NITRO cable.

There is a snubber involved in there as well.

The wire from the power supply to the other boards are changed as well.

[Ears]

Wayne, the two longer ribbons marked w601  on the PS board for the front two channels and w602 for the others is what I have/am changing so far, along whith binding posts and iec.
There will be no Jensen 4 pole in the ps of my 45, nor will there be any signal bypassing or anything else that requires EE knowledge.

I will use equvilent BG's were I can and I am trying to locate a za-zr series Rubycon for the main PS cap.

I have heard and liked the Jensen 4 poles  in a Sony 9000 es [Modwright]that I used to own but I prefer the 2 pole caps simpliciy of installation.

I am a novice so my 45 will be just a parts  swap and wire upgrade whith absolutely no enginerring involved

I read through that  digital amp thread at www.diyaudio.com and got a headache as opposed to learning something

Greg

[Wayne1]

Greg,

That is the output cable. It does run to the binding posts through the circuit board and there are a few tin jumpers in the signal path. There are some very small caps forming a snubber circuit between the + and - signals and ground. The stock ribbon cable is 20 AWG tin plated copper. Changing that out does help quite a bit. Using a larger gauge in a damped star quad geometry will help even more

There are no Black Gates that will fit for PS caps. Using BG for coupling caps is a bit tricky to fit.

[azryan]

Well.... I tried the Red Violin last night and it looks like there's still that edgyness in the 45 I had in the 25!
Crap!

At least now I know it was my ears hearing things a bit diff. at diff. times.....OR.... it's having to do w/ the incoming power at diff. times?
Crap... I'll probably NEVER know!

This track probably uses less than 1 watt on my speakers though so can a power prob. still be possible?

I shouldn't have posted that it wasn't edgy like the 25 but it WASN'T when I listened to it that time and it only had one day of break in so I guess I was too happy and jumped the gun.

I'm not sure if it's exactly the same or still a bit better?
 
I'll let it break in more and get some longer term impressions.
It's really subtle so very hard to describe it.
Top to bottom otherwise it's really good IMO.

Looks like Red Violin soundtrack is a good test for that edgy top end.
There's one track w/ a violin solo speeding up to follow a metranome (sp?) and it's still doing something wrong that's sharp on my ears. My wife heard it too.

W/ most music that prob isn't there though.

I've heard this track on my system with past gear many many times and know it's not my speakers either.

Looks like I'm back to considering this mod a 'must' for the 45 to be a keeper and hope it'll fix this prob.

I wonder if it's an element of the high freq. switching and the mod will for sure fix it?