Modded Panasonic SA-XR 45 listening session

Wayne1 · « **Reply #60 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 02:33 pm »

Jerry,

If speakers have only one pair of binding posts, then just use one set of outputs

The Panny did very well on Mike's Vandersteen 2A's which are 86 dB efficient and present mostly a 4 ohm load. If your speakers are capable of being bi-wired or bi-amped, it just makes the Panny an even better deal.

I have run my multi kilobuck vinyl setup through the Panny. It does get all the spatial clues right, but it does not bring through the fullness and emotion that a good, all tube system can for vinyl. We used the DAD recordings that Mike had and, to me, it sounded betted than any SACD I have heard.

Because of the direct digital path, CD will tend to sound better than most SACD, which would have to be converted to analog and then back to digital. That is the one main fault of the Panny's digital section. The analog to digital convertor. I guess you can only expect so much in a $300.00 HT receiver

I intend to keep my Vinyl system separate from my digital. I do have a LOT of money tied up in it. It is all tube and a PITA to deal with but it makes such sweet sounds. For everyday family, HT and digital use the Panny is the way I am going to go.

As far as how close SACD is to CD, all that depends on the player. We have not done any direct SACD/CD comparisons. If I still have the Dennon 2900 on loan, we may bring that along to our next listening session and check out KODO and SRV.

I will be offerring Bybees installed inside the Panny as an option. The cost would be $85.00 additional for each Bybee. You could add up to four for the speaker outputs and one on the digital input. This price is subject to change. I received an e-mail from Jack Bybee and he is planning on phasing out the "old" Bybees in favor of his new "Slipstream" design. These would cost in the area of $100.00 each.

Max, I do not feel the RM-1s NEED bi-amping, but it could not hurt

All you would need is more speaker wire to try it out.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #61 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 02:41 pm »

Wayne, I thought bi-amping required 2 amps...although I'd be happy to own more of your speaker cables too.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #62 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 03:04 pm »

Max,

I was referring to using the Panasonic SA-XR45 with your RM-1s. The Panny has SIX 100 watt amplifiers inside it. You can use the "normal" front speaker outputs or you could hook up the rear channel outputs just to your woofer input and the fronts to the mids and tweets. There is a SFC mode called PARTY which sends the same signal to all channels of the Panny. In the set up, turn off the front and rear center channel and change the L, R, LS, and RS speakers to large.

Then you would be sending the same signals to the different areas of your speaker. The passive crosover in the RM-1s will take care of the frequency division. This will give you more control of the bass and more smoothness on the mids and tweets. Throw in some Bybees and you can approach Audio Nirvana

maxwalrath · « **Reply #63 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 03:21 pm »

oh...ok. I didn't know the panny's specs. Where did you guys get your sa-45s?

zybar · « **Reply #64 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 03:24 pm »

JandR.com hass the Panny for under $300 + shipping.

GW

bubba966 · « **Reply #65 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 05:55 pm »

Wayne,

Have you tried appling any Tube-O-Lator to anything in the Panny?

Mathew_M · « **Reply #66 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 06:10 pm »

Forgive my lack of research: Does the Panny decode DVD-A direct as well? If so and the quality is there I could see this technology as being the nail in the coffin to SACD. SACD requires still requires conversion right?

Wayne are you still using the 626R and Radii tube monoblocks in your vinyl setup?

I wonder though how good a digital transfer of an analog source would sound? Like vinyl. Do you archive your vinyl onto cd, wayne? If not, I think there would be a lot of us interested in that experiment esp. with the Panny.

Also do you see the Panny mods going through a series of interations like the DiO? Is there going to be a Mensa model within a year?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #67 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 06:11 pm »

Hello Bubba,

No, I have not. The Tube-O-Lator is supposed to work best on solid state devices used in the analog realm. I suppose I could try it out on the analog ICs and the A/D convertor chips. I have been concentrating on getting the "big" stuff changed. Down the road, I may find the time to work on the more subtle stuff.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #68 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 06:12 pm »

is tube-o-lator a vibration control substance?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #69 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 06:33 pm »

Matthew,

The Panny does NOT do DVD-A direct. For SACD or DVD-A you would have to plug in the analog outputs of the player into the analog inputs of the Panny and then it converts the signal into digital. There is quite a bit of loss in this process.

That is why the Panny tends to sound better with redbook CDs.

The Radii mono-blocks were damaged by UPS in shipping to a reviewer. I am still fighting with UPS over the damage claim. For now they are sitting near my bench waitng the outcome of the claim. Whenever it is settled, the mono-blocks will be used in my vinyl rig with the Hagerman Cornet. I am using a modified Radii HAP-05 tube headphone amp as a preamp in this rig now. When Mr. Hagerman finishes up his preamp design, I will probably build that and use it.

The speakers are an older pair of Acoustic Reality 3D's with sub modules. I bought these some time ago, back in the Harmonic Discord days, pre VMPS. All my VMPS speakers are in my HT.

If I can ever afford a pair of VMPS RM-30s, I will move a pair of 626Rs to the Vinyl system and my son will inherit the 3D's. My daughter has a very nice vintage Sansui AU/TU-719 with a pair of modded Michaura M-55s

I really don't spend that much time archiving vinyl. I have transferred some of my demo vinyl to my hard drive but I have not yet put it onto a CD. I did pick up a Yamaha CRW-F1 burner with Advanced Audio Master and I do have a fair amount of the Memorex black CD-Rs. Maybe I will try to get that done before the next listening session.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #70 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 08:05 pm »

There are a few threads about Tube-O-Lator on the BOLDER Cable circle You can read here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1152

and here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1308

and make up your own mind. I have found to my own ears, in the system I have listened to, it makes and improvement. YMMV

There will probably be changes in the mods as I spend more time with the unit. I really don't know that the SA-XR45 will be around in a year. Panasonic has already announced a new version of it to be released in August with DVI inputs. I have no idea how it will compare to the SA-XR45 sonically.

With the DI/O, I priced the upgrades as just the difference between the various levels of mods. The Panny does require quite a bit more labor to pull it apart and work on it, so if you want to upgrade later, there will be a price premium.

Scotty asked about using a DIP with the Panny. I have a modded DIP MK II that I have been using in my HT for a few years now. I noticed a very big difference when I was using a modded Pioneer DV-525 as a source. I have just left it in the system and never bothered to compare it since.

I took some time this afternoon to take a listen to the Panny with the DIP and a few different cables and with and without the RCA Purifier with Bybee inside. In all cases there was a majot improvement when the Bybee was in the digital line. The DIP caused quite a bit of "smearing" of the sonice. The leading edge of transient were not as clear. The low bass was very boomy. There was not as much impact as without the DIP in the line.

I also listened to the digital cable I make with Gold Bullet plugs, Silver Bullet Plugs and the new WBT NextGen connectors. Both the Silver and WBT cables do need some more burn-in but I do prefer those connectors over the standard Bullets. There was more "snap" and transient ability. The NextGen has a very nice sense of space and image.

I do not know how much the NextGen connectors will be yet. These were the gold plated copper. I do know they will be making a Silver version for A LOT of money.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #71 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 08:30 pm »

Wayne1, thanks for posting the results of your with and without DIP
experiment. I was kind of hoping it would be a cheap improvement to the Pannys performance. It is nice to know I was wrong and that the money is better spent by being saved for your mod package. Has there been any word about when prices for the WBT Nexgen products will be announced.
Scotty

vpolineni · « **Reply #72 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 08:33 pm »

wayne, from what I understand, the sa-xr70 has the same amp section as the sa-xr45.

JoshK · « **Reply #73 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 08:37 pm »

has anyone heard whether the future panny will include i.Link?

vpolineni · « **Reply #74 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 08:38 pm »

I don't think so josh.. it will have hdmi inputs for better video performance (all digital)..

bubba966 · « **Reply #75 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 09:20 pm »

Wayne,

If/when you get around to trying out Tube-O-Lator on the Panny, where might you put it other than the A/D section?

Would it be of any use on the DD, DPL, & DTS decoders?

While I have no interest in the Panny (it's lacking a few things I'd need, like an AC-3 RF Demod), I'm starting to think about improving my current receiver. And if it'd be of some help on the decoders, it's not too expensive to do.

Just got to thinking, does the Panny keep the signal digital until the speaker outputs for DD & DTS bitstreams? If so a Tube-O-Lator application on the Panny might not mean anything compared to a regular SS receiver...

maxwalrath · « **Reply #76 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 10:14 pm »

deleted...

Mathew_M · « **Reply #77 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 10:53 pm »

Anyone else think its funny that a guy named Bubba with a Beavis avatar is preoccupied with applying Tube-O-Lator to the outputs of his reciever?

ABEX · « **Reply #78 on:** 21 Jan 2004, 11:14 pm »

Matt
Not until you mentioned it!

vpolineni · « **Reply #79 on:** 23 Jan 2004, 06:08 pm »

Wayne,
Have you or do you plan on using any ers sheets in the sa-xr45 as part of your mods?