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Laura,At what stage pulling away from wall did Rod apply toe in to the anchor?
This is just a cult right now, with all of the cultish fervor and recruitment techniques that we have observed with the Moonies and the Scientologists. Be careful though, if you get a few more believers signed up and recruiting for you, you will have a full blown religion on your hands and you won't be able to talk about it on AC.
Btw, Laura, I'm really glad that you got so much out of the experience. Your description of what took place in your room was easy to understand and totally believable. I especially liked the part about what the back wall does to embrace the sound. It mirrors my experience exactly, master set or no master set. I would like to expand just a little bit on this part :Does your optometrist ever get the process whittled down to two lenses, and then you can't decide which one you prefer? "Yes I can see the difference between those two lenses, but I can't tell you which one I prefer." Sometimes they both look right to me, just slightly different.Speaker placement is that way for me.
Trying to lend a little sanity to counter your vanity and inanity. The forum is the place where we share opinions. Sometimes opinions differ. Some opinions are very difficult to reconcile. I personally think that the whole Master Set movement is nonsense. It is being sold like Amway. Nothing has been verified. No matter how many people say they saw the UFO, I'm still going to have difficulty accepting their claims without a photo or something. A better question might be, "What the hell fuels your evangelism?" Why are you so hairtrigger about nipping dissent in the bud? Intelligent people can find good reason to be skeptical about your approach to force feeding your pet miracle into every conversation. Have you noticed that you're in a room treatment Circle?Why do you get your dander up whenever someone says something other than "Amen!"?
Everyone, please settle down. We sometimes don't agree, but there's no need to ridicule anyone. Keep it civil.
I can't find those excellent pictures of ModWright's listening room here on AC
I have no misgivings with the master set concept. I'm standing here waving the master set banner in the spirit that I might refine the good results that I'm already getting in my home. I like the boundary reinforcement concept and I don't worry too much about things like the first reflection point or narrow baffles. I like to experiment and then live with the results for a while before I make up my mind. This is a fun hobby! I have to say in all honesty though, that I don't like the part about master set where we have to accept there is only one guy on the planet that "gets it", and if we also want to be so "enlightened" then we must pony up $500 or 5 percent. This is where I really have to drop the ball. I don't want to suggest that a service call isn't worth a fee, but rather that I feel insulted by the notion that I'm not smart enough to "get it" myself. The idea that you can tease me with a few descriptive starters, but only one guy on the globe can finish the job is hardly in the spirit of a public forum for friendship and learning.I have the time, the patients, and the desire to keep learning. This is my favorite hobby and I have been enjoying it for over thirty years. This is a place to share ideas, not peddle insecurity. The way that master set is explained (not by Laura, but by some of you) peddles insecurity. And it seems to do so for ulterior motive. That's just plain wrong.Yes, I know. The counterpoint to my uneducated and ill-willed statement has to be something like "Golly gee, it's too bad for poor unenlightened you. You have never heard the unobtainium-by-self result, (nor can you ever until we show you), so you can not comment on that which you know nothing about." Fair enough and par for the course.Surely master set does not have to be this way. Please, make it not so.
The speakers are very close to the rear and side walls. Reflection (used to be shining a light in a mirror was in indication of waveform behavior from side walls) and/or pressurization has a cause and effect relationship to what we hear. I’m all for getting more of the latter so long as I don’t get too much of the former. And moving your speakers out incrementally from the wall behind makes perfect sense to integrating things. But, when speakers are too close to boundaries it will be additive and, I dare say, measurable. It will elevate the lowest frequencies up. This will add weight and fullness and sensation. The bass drum whack that pressurized the room (of course, it did, predictably I think). . but did it pressurize the hall in which the recording was made the same way? I listen to a lot of onsite recordings. Having my speakers out further from the walls allows freedom to instruments to appear/sound more separated out and palpably dimensional in space and the venue or space expand out beyond my speakers and sometimes room boundaries (in a truthful kind of way, it seems to me, and is important to me). Where my speakers sit I don’t sacrifice tone or impact or sensation, either. More about that in a minute. Were I to place my speakers as Laura has in my room, I know what would happen. I would gain some things (described), but would fidelity to the source be one of them? Here's where I get skeptical. It might be helpful to know that this isn’t my first set of speakers or listening room.Geddes wrote that sitting in the near field you listen more into a recording, you are more you there. Listening in the far field and the musicians are more here, in the room (which is why I have my chair on rails- I’m kidding). To onsite recordings, I typically will listen nearer the plane of my speaks and will adjust the volume to give me what I believe is the most realism. On studio recordings I listen mostly loud and scoot back a ways and this will add some density to images and as the space or ambience is generally artificially created anyway I don’t concern myself much with this. Don’t think I would have as much flexibility or neutrality with my speakers placed as Laura’s. The effect of my room would dominate too much. I look to include my room in a supporting role and integrate it with live and/or onsite classical and jazz recordings. I think MS is creating its own sensational sound and ya’ll just like it better. Don’t we somehow gravitate to new in this hobby? And all the techno speak helps make it more palatable to our intellect and differentiates its progenitor. It looks like how we would have placed our speakers when we were novices except that little jig thing (think that’s the difference?). Regrettably, I can't find those excellent pictures of ModWright's listening room here on AC (wish I could) because that looks palatable to my intellect, what's left of it. And to my longtime sensibilities. But I know ya'll are havin fun. Cheers.Laura- Empirical evidence? In our hobby?
just stating the obvious but some speaker systems react differently with the room than others. from what I glean so far the MS concept is not so much imposing set rules on a room/system as it is matching the system to the room. btw, my speakers have always been noted for 'throwing' sound, ie: the best seat is further than usual from the speakers, also they can do well in some rooms closer to the walls than one would expect. the bottom line though is the integration in the room, the two rooms mentioned here are perfect examples. both Laura and Dan's rooms are large, both sound great and yet have very different speaker placements that work. one size doesn't fit all.again to me the real point is integration of the system and room. this years RMAF was a prefect example of the effect of a room, we had two rooms with almost identical gear. one was a large room with the large Daedalus speaker the other a small room with the small version speaker. they sounded very , very different, yet when you place these models in the same room they are very close in sound. the room made them almost sound like speakers form two companies! I wish I'd had the MS guys there helping!I'm glad that people are exploring placement in rooms and sharing the knowledge. as for it being elite, I don't get that impression, everyone apears to be open and sharing what they know , some people have practiced and trained themselves to set up rooms and I see no reason they shouldn't be compensated for their time and expertise. that they are freely sharing their knowledge is admirable, and those of us who feel we can learn and experiment should do so.thanks, lou
as for it being elite, I don't get that impression
