[GHM]

There seems to be an evolution occurring with the advancements of computers and the internet. I've been playing with HTPCs for several years now. It has been constantly evolving in a good way... thank goodness!

I'm noticing smaller and cheaper packages that are capable of handling HT duty. I lurk on the AVS HTPC forums scanning for additional knowledge of this fun, but at sometimes complicated hobby. You can now buy a complete HTPC for under $600. This is an exciting advancement! Especially when you consider there are standalone Blu ray players that are double or triple the price!

So what are the advantages of using an HTPC? Well for one, if you want to combine your media into one accessible place, an HTPC is the ticket!

2) If you're tired of giving the cable or satellite companies your money. Paying DVR rental fees for example.
3) You want the ability to access your media library from other parts of your home.
4) Having the ability to multi-task from one remote and one box.
5) The seemingly endless upgrade ability that is only limited by what the end-user prefers.
6) With the break out and advancements of free internet TV. The cost saved from not paying for Cable TV or Satellite can be enormous!
7) Being able to retrieve Meta-Data for your movie collection is helpful. For example (the Media Browser, a free add-on for the Windows media center) gives you poster art work, movie info and actor info for your movie collection. This program also gives you the ability to select an actor from one movie and by doing so it will locate other movies in your collection with that actor.

Being able to record OTA HD ,Internet TV(Hulu TV for example)  or cable TV through an add-on tuner card.
9) Makes owning standalone DVD or Blu ray players obsolete


As far as disadvantages, I believe there is always a few with anything in life.
1) Internet connection speed is critical for best picture and sound quality.
2) I like choices but having mountains of programs to choose from can be confusing.
3) The initial ripping process can be time consuming just like the music side of the house.

I know there are other positives and negatives. I just wanted to name a few.
The big question is who else on AC have wandered into this uncharted territory of home media servers or HTPCs.
Are there any sites of interest you've found that offer cool software for HTPCs? Please feel free to point the way.

Thanks

[srb]

I built an HTPC about a year and a half ago.  It is not fanless, but I have low noise fans, and went passive on the CPU and video card, and it sits in my audio rack.
 
I think one of the best features to me is the use of Lifextender.  http://www.lifextender.com/
 
Lifextender automatically removes commercials from recorded TV using a number of criteria including close caption data, number of black frames, sound levels and others.
 
Although there is a somewhat involved process to tweak it so that it works to the best of it's ability, I have just used it "out of the box" since day one, only setting "preferences", and it has worked near flawlessly.
 
The only caveat I have found that it is quite CPU intensive, and drives CPU temperatures up like playing a video game!
 
I have a Xeon E3110 (same as Core2Duo E8100) with 8GB RAM running under Vista 64, and have been able to record 2 HD TV programs + 2 SD TV programs simultaneously (more as a test, not that I have much cause to do that!), while Lifextender is de-commercializing and I am browsing on the Internet, all while iTunes is serving music without skipping a beat.
 
Neat.
 
Steve

[GHM]

Steve thanks for the link! I've never seen this before.  Oh this is very cool !
This is the what I'm talking about. There's so much out there, it is so easy to miss some of this stuff.
The awesome part is that most of it is FREE!!!

Thanks again for the info, I'll check it out for sure! So what type of tuner do you recommend to use this program with?

[satfrat]

I built an HTPC about a year and a half ago.  It is not fanless, but I have low noise fans, and went passive on the CPU and video card, and it sits in my audio rack.
 
I think one of the best features to me is the use of Lifextender.  http://www.lifextender.com/
 
Lifextender automatically removes commercials from recorded TV using a number of criteria including close caption data, number of black frames, sound levels and others.
 
Although there is a somewhat involved process to tweak it so that it works to the best of it's ability, I have just used it "out of the box" since day one, only setting "preferences", and it has worked near flawlessly.
 
The only caveat I have found that it is quite CPU intensive, and drives CPU temperatures up like playing a video game!
 
I have a Xeon E3110 (same as Core2Duo E8100) with 8MB RAM running under Vista 64, and have been able to record 2 HD TV programs + 2 SD TV programs simultaneously (more as a test, not that I have much cause to do that!), while Lifextender is de-commercializing and I am browsing on the Internet, all while iTunes is serving music without skipping a beat.
 
Neat.
 
Steve

Man,,, THAT is simply too cool .   With my 4 year old HTPC(custom XP Media Ed/P4 3.0 ,3MB RAM/ 160G & 1.5T interior HD/ two 750G exterior HD's), I'm able to download music while playing my music library. I can also have around 6 pages open, my interior HD and 2 exterior HD's open while manually coping my music to the external's and still tour the internet. BUT I don't mess with video anymore other than to use AnyDVD/TheaterTec for DVD's to my Sony XBR. I would never be able to incorporate my video programs like you are with what I have so to me, it's damn impressive to see what you can do. It gives me something to shoot for (if i can ever find another good paying job that is. ).   
 
Thanks for sharing Steve.    Hi Gymane, I'm baaack. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[GHM]

Glad to have you back Robin!! So has anyone tried Windows 7 media center? This is the one area where I think Microsoft has the ball in their court!! The Media center is simply spectacular at what can be incorporated into it. 

[jqp]

And what about a CableCard? See my topic here

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71614.0

[satfrat]

Glad to have you back Robin!! So has anyone tried Windows 7 media center? This is the one area where I think Microsoft has the ball in their court!! The Media center is simply spectacular at what can be incorporated into it. 

Nope I'm staying with XP probably til their support runs out in 2014.    It's a financial decision ya'know.   But I'm still downloading music like there's no tomorrow,,, just passed 11,000 albums yesterday! 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[srb]

So has anyone tried Windows 7 media center? This is the one area where I think Microsoft has the ball in their court!! The Media center is simply spectacular at what can be incorporated into it.

I would like to, unfortunately Microsoft is penalizing those who spent the most on their operating system.  As a purchaser of an OEM version of Vista Ultimate 64, I can upgrade to the equivalent version in Windows 7 for a mere $249.  We'll have to see how that actually unfolds in the next month or two.
 

And what about a CableCard?

I don't know about Windows 7, but in Windows Vista, the only version that will work with cable cards is a special version sold only to HTPC integrators like Dell and Niveus.  Again, have to wait and see if it's any different with Windows 7.
 
Then, of course, there is your cable company.  Here in Tucson, Cox Communications will only install (no, you can't self-install) a one-way cable card.  It's not bi-directional, so you can't use interactive services like Pay Per View, or anything that requires pushing data out to them.
 
I had someone get excited about doing what I'm doing with my HTPC, but I recommended TIVO to them, as I knew they wanted something that worked intuitively out of the box, not something that takes dowloading this and that and futzing with.
 
Steve

[GHM]

Steve what brand of dual tuners do you suggestion for HD OTA?
Thanks, I need to increase my memory as well, only running 4 Gbs at the moment.

Robin..understood ..

[srb]

Steve what brand of dual tuners do you suggestion for HD OTA?

Well, my two tuner cards are both hybrid, each with one ATSC and one NTSC tuner.  And not a matched set.  One is an AverMedia M780, the other is an Asus PE9400.  I would have to look at what's currently available for a dual ATSC card, but Hauppauge is usually a good bet.
 

I need to increase my memory as well, only running 4 Gbs at the moment.

I assume your running a 64bit OS?  I'm not sure how important more memory is for dual HD TV recording, for me it's more of an issue of multitasking with other additional programs while I'm recording (and Lifextending).  Another reason I upgraded to 8GB was to justify my choice of Vista64 which has bitten me in the a** several times because there were no 64bit drivers available for something.  The current TV tuners have improved on board video processing, so motherboard CPU utilization is usually fairly low.
 
I also wanted to mention that my HTPC is on 24/7, a necessity so that it can record whenever it needs to, like a DVR.  The Power Management in Vista is even more configurable than XP, so that my computer goes into a deep sleep where all fans turn off, including the fan inside the power supply (I suppose most likely requires a power management-aware PSU, mine is a Corsair 520HX).  Only the CPU and RAM are idling.
 
Then it has to be able to wake up the PCI/PCI-e bus when Media Center says it's time to record, or else it can't find the tuner cards.  Think I had to tweak a setting for that.
 
Steve

[GHM]

Well, my two tuner cards are both hybrid, each with one ATSC and one NTSC tuner.  And not a matched set.  One is an AverMedia M780, the other is an Asus PE9400.  I would have to look at what's currently available for a dual ATSC card, but Hauppauge is usually a good bet.

I've seen mention of the Hauppauge. I'll do some research on this one. Seems to be a lot of fellows using this brand.

assume your running a 64bit OS?  I'm not sure how important more memory is for dual HD TV recording, for me it's more of an issue of multitasking with other additional programs while I'm recording (and Lifextending).  Another reason I upgraded to 8GB was to justify my choice of Vista64 which has bitten me in the a** several times because there were no 64bit drivers available for something.  The current TV tuners have improved on board video processing, so motherboard CPU utilization is usually fairly low.

This is great to know that the cards are more efficient nowadays.
Yes I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit on one HTPC. And Windows 7 ultimate 32 bit on the other.I understand what you're saying about the 64 bit drivers. So far though I haven't had much of an issue with Win7 64 bit.

I also wanted to mention that my HTPC is on 24/7, a necessity so that it can record whenever it needs to, like a DVR.  The Power Management in Vista is even more configurable than XP, so that my computer goes into a deep sleep where all fans turn off, including the fan inside the power supply (I suppose most likely requires a power management-aware PSU, mine is a Corsair 520HX).  Only the CPU and RAM are idling.
 
Then it has to be able to wake up the PCI/PCI-e bus when Media Center says it's time to record, or else it can't find the tuner cards.  Think I had to tweak a setting for that.

I keep my main HTPC on 24/7 so it is accessible from the 3 other computers in the apartment. I bought mine stock from Dell. I added a video card and a blu ray player. The main HTPC is an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 Ghz.

I have it running in a dual monitor extended mode. I have a 52 inch Sharp LCD and a 19 inch Dell wide screen monitor sharing the video card (Zotac GeForce 8800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 (660MHz/1800MHz). This way someone can watch a movie or TV show off hard drive or the internet, while I surf the net or perform other task on the 19 inch without disturbing one another.

It's time to buy another external HD as well. I've been eating up space on my 1 TB drive. 1 TB used to be considered large, doesn't seem that way now. I'm using up about 30 or 40 Gbs a week on movies! I don't use my internal for much, just the operating system and programs.

 

[srb]

I understand what you're saying about the 64 bit drivers. So far though I haven't had much of an issue with Win7 64 bit.

I have a perfectly good Canon scanner for which there are no 64 bit drivers.  I also wanted to use a Keyspan Remote to remotely control iTunes from an Airport Express and no 64 bit drivers are available for that.  I also can't get a Lexicon Omega USB recording interface to work either.  But hey, I've got 8GB of RAM!
 

I added a video card and a blu ray player.

Since I have a 1080p TV, I thought about getting a Blu-Ray drive and seeing if would be worth acquiring BDs instead of DVDs.  Does Windows 7 Media Center have native Blu-Ray support, or does it still require 3rd party software?
 
Steve

[GHM]

I have a perfectly good Canon scanner for which there are no 64 bit drivers.  I also wanted to use a Keyspan Remote to remotely control iTunes from an Airport Express and no 64 bit drivers are available for that.  I also can't get a Lexicon Omega USB recording interface to work either.  But hey, I've got 8GB of RAM!

Oh that is a bummer!! With Win7 64bit I just plugged up my components. It went online and retrieved my drivers for me.

Since I have a 1080p TV, I thought about getting a Blu-Ray drive and seeing if would be worth acquiring BDs instead of DVDs.  Does Windows 7 Media Center have native Blu-Ray support, or does it still require 3rd party software?

Regrettably the Blu ray native support is only for you burning your own Blu rays; audio/video or just for data backup.
Yes you would need a 3rd party software like Cyberlink DVD. This software came with my Sony BD drive.

If you ripped and compressed(MKV,MP4 compression) them to HD. Windows Media player Home cinema plays them like a dream!!

[srb]

With Win7 64bit I just plugged up my components. It went online and retrieved my drivers for me.

So would Vista.  If the drivers existed.  Which they don't.  It's not Microsoft's fault, it's the hardware manufacturers.  They don't grasp the fact that 50% of the computers going out of Best Buy and other retailers have a 64 bit OS installed.
 

Regrettably the Blu ray native support is only for you burning your own Blu rays; audio/video or just for data backup.  Yes you would need a 3rd party software like Cyberlink DVD.

That's Microsoft's fault.  Blu-Ray has been out for 2 years, and Windows 7 Media Center can't play them.  That's just sad.
 
Steve

[GHM]

That's Microsoft's fault.  Blu-Ray has been out for 2 years, and Windows 7 Media Center can't play them.  That's just sad.
 
Steve

Yup I agree it's a bummer!! On a good note they have made Dolby Digital Plus native to Win 7 now. So it will decode this without further processing needed.

[jqp]

And what about a CableCard?

I don't know about Windows 7, but in Windows Vista, the only version that will work with cable cards is a special version sold only to HTPC integrators like Dell and Niveus.  Again, have to wait and see if it's any different with Windows 7.
 
Then, of course, there is your cable company.  Here in Tucson, Cox Communications will only install (no, you can't self-install) a one-way cable card.  It's not bi-directional, so you can't use interactive services like Pay Per View, or anything that requires pushing data out to them.
 
 
Steve

So are you saying there is a solution that is better than a one way cable card for an HTPC? What is that?

There are multi-tuner CableCards available from Ceton and Hauppague. Also coming is two-way technology called Tru2way.

All cable companies are required by law to support CableCard access, and also FIOS companies I think. It is also easier to use them to do what you want with Windows 7 and new agreements.

The thing is, this will probably always be a niche (expensive) market. Then again, watching content and having this level of control will probably always be expensive even with Tivo type solutions.

For an up to date articles, see here http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/Ceton/

[jqp]

Regrettably the Blu ray native support is only for you burning your own Blu rays; audio/video or just for data backup.  Yes you would need a 3rd party software like Cyberlink DVD.

That's Microsoft's fault.  Blu-Ray has been out for 2 years, and Windows 7 Media Center can't play them.  That's just sad.
 
Steve

Umm...I think you should say that Sony does not want Apple nor Microsoft to play Blue Rays without paying licensing that neither one has chosen to pay? I think you have always needed third party software to play DVDs and Blue Rays? (Hacking excluded of course)

[srb]

So are you saying there is a solution that is better than a one way cable card for an HTPC? What is that?

I am saying that the cable box or DVR that the cable company supplies is usually a bi-directional device alowing you to transmit data to the cable company, and Pay-Per-View and Interactive Guides are examples of bi-directional services.  In many markets, bi-directional cable cards are not available, and you won't be able to use those outbound data-driven services when using a non bi-directional cable card.
 

All cable companies are required by law to support CableCard access

But not necessarily bi-directional cable card access.
 

Umm...I think you should say that Sony does not want Apple nor Microsoft to play Blue Rays without paying licensing that neither one has chosen to pay?

And that's fair.  But if the manufacturer of my stand-alone $150 Blu-Ray player has paid the licensing fees (and the software is a small portion of the stand-alone hardware player), then Microsoft should surely have paid the licensing to include it their Media Center enabled software OS, which retails from $200 to $400, depending on the edition.
 
Blu-Ray is becoming quite mainstream and it should be a Media Center inclusion.  I think it's greed and maxium profits driving Microsoft.  $400 for Windows 7 Ultimate (or whatever they're calling it)?  Give me a break.
 
The other problem is that Apple, outside of their Apple TV device, has chosen not to pursue the Media Center arena.  Sure you could build an Apple Media Center, but you would be assembling various pieces of 3rd party software, and it wouldn't really work together.  And that's too bad, because if Apple saw a market for themselves with a Media Center, I think they would have an even better one than Microsoft.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Steve
 
 
 

[GHM]

You can get the Microsoft family pack for $150.00. This allows you to upgrade 3 PCs. Not the Ultimate, but having tried both the Home Premium will do what most people want anyway. That's not a bad deal at all.

The Ultimate is $219.00, a little steep for my blood. When I make the final migration to Windows 7. It will be with the Home premium edition.
You can buy  a blu ray drive for as little as $60. They come with the software to play the Blu rays included in the price. 60 bucks for a blu-ray player isn't exactly highway robbery. 

I see Apple as over priced as well. Both have their greed factors.

[srb]

I got Vista Ultimate as I needed the ability to login to a domain.  And having supported myself for many years as a Microsoft IT networker, I was curious about the other features, including Backup and Encryption modules.
 
I'll have to read the current literature, but at last read, I could not upgrade "down" to a Home Premium level from Ultimate.  It had to be Ultimate to Ultimate.  At the time (this was months ago), they wanted $249 for the upgrade.
 
Steve