[Laundrew]

I was enjoying some music this afternoon and I could not help quietly reflecting about my venture into high-end audio that started a little over a year and half ago. I remember as a "wide-eyed rookie" walking into many audio stores and trying to take everything in - it was quite a learning curve and I still have so much to learn. I adopted the philosophy of "never mind the specifications and concentrate on the sound."

What surprised me in many ways was the audio sales representatives.

I remember walking into some audio stores and having the sales representative give me the once over and ignore me. I can still picture the look of condemnation some sales representatives had when I was asking questions - it was if I was a bother to them. One audition really stands out in my mind. The sales representative was standing in front of a $40K system and he was calling other audio manufactures equipment sh*t, and then he looked at me and said I could not afford this equipment anyway. I have never been so disgusted by the arrogance and loathing from a sales representative.

Goths are people too!

I was inquiring about a CD player at another audio store and I was asked by the dealer what amplifier/preamplifier combination I was going to use. By this time I had settled on the combination of the 28Bs/BP26. The dealer "sighed" and said "you could do much better than this" - I inquired if they had auditioned these components and was informed "no." I thanked them for their time...

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

I did find a few good audio dealers and ironically, the one I made my purchase from was recommended by a co-worker, word of mouth, eh? I remember walking into Altronics Stereo 2000 on Bloor Street in Toronto and met Ron and Rob for the first time. Ron and Rob have easily forgotten more about audio equipment than I will ever know - I am sure that they were playing with audio equipment when the rest of us were playing with Tonka Trucks or Barbie Dolls! I was treated with respect from the very beginning and all of my questions were honestly and eagerly answered - with no high pressure sales tactics. Definitely two very down to earth people - truly refreshing. I remember pointing at a pair of JBL 1400 Project Arrays and inquiring what they were. A smile from Rob and Ron ensures, I learn about horns and compression drivers and then the demo begins (they actually had all of the JBL Project Array speaker series on the floor!).

Hmmm... I notice something very different about these JBLs over the other speakers I have previously auditioned

As for electronics, only to name a few, Bryston, Krell and Esoteric were all there on the shelf to demo. If I remember correctly, they had almost everything from the smaller Bryston amplifiers right up to the 28Bs. Ron and Rob put together so many combinations for me, it was awesome and I truly believe that they were having as much fun as I was. Then came the demo of the JBL 1400 Project Arrays, 28Bs, BP26 and the Esoteric X-05. I just stood there with my mouth open Ron even gave me the Bryston Owners Circle to check out. What I noticed from the owners circle was the great service and reliability of Bryston equipment (I had already experienced the awesome sound), more than happy owners and James taking the time to help Bryston owners out - wow.

Needless to say, I purchased my system from Ron and Rob at Altronics. When my JBLs arrived, my vehicle was not large enough to pick them up. I called Ron and told him that I would have to get a friend to pick them up for me the following week. "When would you like them," he inquired. Jokingly, I replied "how about tonight," and Ron said he would deliver them for me - it was New Years Eve and his round trip was 160Km!

An awesome audio dealer combined with awesome audio components - talk about a win, win situation.

 

[1ZIP]

I put my Bryston system together over the past 9 months and it took three dealers to do it.  One was good and would buy from again, a second was marginal and a third was an air head. 
The marginal one may have been partly my fault but the third was a dolt without question. But all the hassle was worth it when all was said and done.  Fortunately, it was Bryston's excellent business model and customer service that overcame dealer issues. 

[Wind Chaser]

I think the most important thing a good dealer can do is to allow you to try a product in your home before you buy it.  Showroom demos don't do anything for me.

[Viajero5000]

Goths are people too!

Who exactly would be considered a 'goth'? I mean I know people who dress/make up a certain way are known as 'goths', but that's just what's visible on the outside. What exactly is the 'goth philosophy'?

[95Dyna]

Goths are people too!

Who exactly would be considered a 'goth'? I mean I know people who dress/make up a certain way are known as 'goths', but that's just what's visible on the outside. What exactly is the 'goth philosophy'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_goth_scene

[James Tanner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0_NRapPecc&feature=PlayList&p=7DC4453FD98AD6E2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

james

[Stu Pitt]

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

This isn't just audio.  While planning for my wedding, I saw a tux online at Men's Warehouse that I wanted to try on and see how it would look on me.  The best way to descrie it is the Monopoly guy tux - long black jacket, gray vest and ascot, and grey striped pants.  They didn't have it stock to try on,and the guy tried to get me to order it anyway.  I told him I wasn't ordering a tux for my wedding without knowing what it would look like on me.

He told me to go try it on at a Mom and Pop tux shop that's down the street.  I said to him "So I'm going to go to another guy's shop to try on stuff you don't have, waste his time, then come back to order it from you?  Why should I give you the money that he was supposed to earn for actually working?"

Worst part is, everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

It was a good thing I didn't order the tux without trying it on.  I looked like an idiot wearing it.  Long coats on short guys makes them look a lot shorter.

My landlord has a tux shop (I didn't know him at the time).  He deals with that from a different Men's Warehouse.

I inquired about an Oris watch at a chain dealer.  They didn't have what I was looking for and tried to send me to a mom and pop store to see it, and asked me to come back to order it.  I laughed and told them I'll buy it from the person who actually cares enough to show it to me.

[95Dyna]

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

This isn't just audio.  While planning for my wedding, I saw a tux online at Men's Warehouse that I wanted to try on and see how it would look on me.  The best way to descrie it is the Monopoly guy tux - long black jacket, gray vest and ascot, and grey striped pants.  They didn't have it stock to try on,and the guy tried to get me to order it anyway.  I told him I wasn't ordering a tux for my wedding without knowing what it would look like on me.

He told me to go try it on at a Mom and Pop tux shop that's down the street.  I said to him "So I'm going to go to another guy's shop to try on stuff you don't have, waste his time, then come back to order it from you?  Why should I give you the money that he was supposed to earn for actually working?"

Worst part is, everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

It was a good thing I didn't order the tux without trying it on.  I looked like an idiot wearing it.  Long coats on short guys makes them look a lot shorter.

My landlord has a tux shop (I didn't know him at the time).  He deals with that from a different Men's Warehouse.

I inquired about an Oris watch at a chain dealer.  They didn't have what I was looking for and tried to send me to a mom and pop store to see it, and asked me to come back to order it.  I laughed and told them I'll buy it from the person who actually cares enough to show it to me.

Good illustration, Stu and I agree with you up to a point but I had an experience recently that muddies the waters.  I drove 2 hours round trip to audition an SACD player that retails for $6,500.00.  After the audition the dealer quoted me a price that was about 10% under retail.  Meanwhile closer to home I had spoken earlier to an a dealer that is authorized for the product but doesn't carry it for demo.  His price quote was a whopping $1K less.  He acknowledged that his price quotes are "cash and carry"  recognizing he was adding little value to the transaction.  He did not advise me to go audition it somewhere else.  This left me with a decision that if I wanted to buy this product from the dealer that showed it to me it was basically going to cost me $1,000.00 for an hour of his time.  Both dealers were honest and legitimate in ther approach to me as a customer.  What do you do in this situation.  I think $1K is way to much to pay for the value he added. 

[Laundrew]

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

This isn't just audio.  While planning for my wedding, I saw a tux online at Men's Warehouse that I wanted to try on and see how it would look on me.  The best way to descrie it is the Monopoly guy tux - long black jacket, gray vest and ascot, and grey striped pants.  They didn't have it stock to try on,and the guy tried to get me to order it anyway.  I told him I wasn't ordering a tux for my wedding without knowing what it would look like on me.

He told me to go try it on at a Mom and Pop tux shop that's down the street.  I said to him "So I'm going to go to another guy's shop to try on stuff you don't have, waste his time, then come back to order it from you?  Why should I give you the money that he was supposed to earn for actually working?"

Worst part is, everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

It was a good thing I didn't order the tux without trying it on.  I looked like an idiot wearing it.  Long coats on short guys makes them look a lot shorter.

My landlord has a tux shop (I didn't know him at the time).  He deals with that from a different Men's Warehouse.

I inquired about an Oris watch at a chain dealer.  They didn't have what I was looking for and tried to send me to a mom and pop store to see it, and asked me to come back to order it.  I laughed and told them I'll buy it from the person who actually cares enough to show it to me.

Good illustration, Stu and I agree with you up to a point but I had an experience recently that muddies the waters.  I drove 2 hours round trip to audition an SACD player that retails for $6,500.00.  After the audition the dealer quoted me a price that was about 10% under retail.  Meanwhile closer to home I had spoken earlier to an a dealer that is authorized for the product but doesn't carry it for demo.  His price quote was a whopping $1K less.  He acknowledged that his price quotes are "cash and carry"  recognizing he was adding little value to the transaction.  He did not advise me to go audition it somewhere else.  This left me with a decision that if I wanted to buy this product from the dealer that showed it to me it was basically going to cost me $1,000.00 for an hour of his time.  Both dealers were honest and legitimate in ther approach to me as a customer.  What do you do in this situation.  I think $1K is way to much to pay for the value he added.

Yes $1K is a huge difference - did this dealer offer to lower his price?

I think that this is an issue that the audio equipment manufactures can solve very easily. You can only sell what you have in stock to Demo. For example, if you only stock 7Bs, you can only sell 7Bs and nothing else. This would level the playing field among all audio retailers.

The audio retailers who stocks very little have lower overhead costs and can drop the price accordingly. I also experienced this issue at Future Scrap when I was purchasing our 70 inch Sony. FS did not stock this big screen TV because they could not justify the floor space required. The sales rep told me to go next door and audition this big screen at the Sony Store. He offered $100 off of their price and I went next door and purchased it from the Sony Store.

With audio equipment, you really must hear it before you buy it.

Be well...   
 

[Laundrew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0_NRapPecc&feature=PlayList&p=7DC4453FD98AD6E2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

james

Awesome commercial - awful pizza!

[srb]

There are good professional audio dealers, and others that are practically worthless.
 
I have a local audio dealer who has also said that they can only stock a limited number of pieces, and anything else was special order, no demo.  Okay, fair enough.
 
For some reason, a newly released component that they would normally stock (and was being sold in other audio shops around the country) was not available to them from their distributor and was back ordered.
 
I said let me give you my number, and when you get it in give me a call and I'll come down and take a look at it.
 
They said "It would just be easier if you check back.  Call us in a month or so"
 
!!!
 
In my visits there, I have either seen no other customers in the store, or one other customer.  Product is not flying out the doors.  Their disinterest actually made me wonder if the store was some kind of 'front' for some other activity.
 
Steve

[Stu Pitt]

95Dyna,

There's an exception to every rule.  If the local guy can get it and he's an honest dealer who didn't say 'go audition it there and come back', then there's nothing wrong with buying it from him.  I don't know about anyone else's wallet, but $1k is a big deal to me. 

[Nels Ferre]

...and then he looked at me and said I could not afford this equipment anyway. I have never been so disgusted by the arrogance and loathing from a sales representative.

It is not just Goths and it is not just audio. When I was shopping for a motorcycle some years ago, I thought I wanted a Harley Sportster 1200. The dealer had none in stock, and refused to order one or swap for one with another dealer. I asked him exactly what I had to do to get one, he said he would take my name and number, and when one came in he would call. If it was still there when I arrived at the dealership, I could have it. "I could have it??" WTF?? 

Then he said he had a bike in stock "that I could afford."  (No credit check had been done, and I have perfect credit.) I left there pronto, and never returned   I was dressed in jeans, boots, and a T shirt- it was, after all, a motorcycle shop, not a fashion show.

I ended up buying another motorcycle (not a Harley) at the next dealership I visited. I was treated well, and got a nice bike at a fair price. I've done business with them exclusively since, and after I was it by a car on the bike I bought from them, I bought a replacement from them as well. They even let me borrow the bike for an hour or so to make sure I'd be happy with it. (This never happens.)

Sometimes, people are stupid.  You really can't judge a book by its cover.

[Viajero5000]

Goths are people too!

Who exactly would be considered a 'goth'? I mean I know people who dress/make up a certain way are known as 'goths', but that's just what's visible on the outside. What exactly is the 'goth philosophy'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_goth_scene

rock, vampires, costumes... wow! 

[95Dyna]

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

This isn't just audio.  While planning for my wedding, I saw a tux online at Men's Warehouse that I wanted to try on and see how it would look on me.  The best way to descrie it is the Monopoly guy tux - long black jacket, gray vest and ascot, and grey striped pants.  They didn't have it stock to try on,and the guy tried to get me to order it anyway.  I told him I wasn't ordering a tux for my wedding without knowing what it would look like on me.

He told me to go try it on at a Mom and Pop tux shop that's down the street.  I said to him "So I'm going to go to another guy's shop to try on stuff you don't have, waste his time, then come back to order it from you?  Why should I give you the money that he was supposed to earn for actually working?"

Worst part is, everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

It was a good thing I didn't order the tux without trying it on.  I looked like an idiot wearing it.  Long coats on short guys makes them look a lot shorter.

My landlord has a tux shop (I didn't know him at the time).  He deals with that from a different Men's Warehouse.

I inquired about an Oris watch at a chain dealer.  They didn't have what I was looking for and tried to send me to a mom and pop store to see it, and asked me to come back to order it.  I laughed and told them I'll buy it from the person who actually cares enough to show it to me.

Good illustration, Stu and I agree with you up to a point but I had an experience recently that muddies the waters.  I drove 2 hours round trip to audition an SACD player that retails for $6,500.00.  After the audition the dealer quoted me a price that was about 10% under retail.  Meanwhile closer to home I had spoken earlier to an a dealer that is authorized for the product but doesn't carry it for demo.  His price quote was a whopping $1K less.  He acknowledged that his price quotes are "cash and carry"  recognizing he was adding little value to the transaction.  He did not advise me to go audition it somewhere else.  This left me with a decision that if I wanted to buy this product from the dealer that showed it to me it was basically going to cost me $1,000.00 for an hour of his time.  Both dealers were honest and legitimate in ther approach to me as a customer.  What do you do in this situation.  I think $1K is way to much to pay for the value he added.

Yes $1K is a huge difference - did this dealer offer to lower his price?

I think that this is an issue that the audio equipment manufactures can solve very easily. You can only sell what you have in stock to Demo. For example, if you only stock 7Bs, you can only sell 7Bs and nothing else. This would level the playing field among all audio retailers.

The audio retailers who stocks very little have lower overhead costs and can drop the price accordingly. I also experienced this issue at Future Scrap when I was purchasing our 70 inch Sony. FS did not stock this big screen TV because they could not justify the floor space required. The sales rep told me to go next door and audition this big screen at the Sony Store. He offered $100 off of their price and I went next door and purchased it from the Sony Store.

With audio equipment, you really must hear it before you buy it.

Be well...

Hi Andy,

As a strong believer in free market economics I would not be in favor of restraining an authorized dealer from selling something he doesn't have in stock to level the playing field.  Let the free market do that by forcing the dealer who does carry the item for demo to provide a more competitive price.  Perhaps a small percentage more would make it more possible to buy from him.  Hope you're enjoying that X-05.  I'll be ordering mine soon.

Bill

[Laundrew]

And what about some retailers telling you that an amplifier is to expensive to stock, go listen to it at another store and then have you come back to buy it from them

This isn't just audio.  While planning for my wedding, I saw a tux online at Men's Warehouse that I wanted to try on and see how it would look on me.  The best way to descrie it is the Monopoly guy tux - long black jacket, gray vest and ascot, and grey striped pants.  They didn't have it stock to try on,and the guy tried to get me to order it anyway.  I told him I wasn't ordering a tux for my wedding without knowing what it would look like on me.

He told me to go try it on at a Mom and Pop tux shop that's down the street.  I said to him "So I'm going to go to another guy's shop to try on stuff you don't have, waste his time, then come back to order it from you?  Why should I give you the money that he was supposed to earn for actually working?"

Worst part is, everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

It was a good thing I didn't order the tux without trying it on.  I looked like an idiot wearing it.  Long coats on short guys makes them look a lot shorter.

My landlord has a tux shop (I didn't know him at the time).  He deals with that from a different Men's Warehouse.

I inquired about an Oris watch at a chain dealer.  They didn't have what I was looking for and tried to send me to a mom and pop store to see it, and asked me to come back to order it.  I laughed and told them I'll buy it from the person who actually cares enough to show it to me.

Good illustration, Stu and I agree with you up to a point but I had an experience recently that muddies the waters.  I drove 2 hours round trip to audition an SACD player that retails for $6,500.00.  After the audition the dealer quoted me a price that was about 10% under retail.  Meanwhile closer to home I had spoken earlier to an a dealer that is authorized for the product but doesn't carry it for demo.  His price quote was a whopping $1K less.  He acknowledged that his price quotes are "cash and carry"  recognizing he was adding little value to the transaction.  He did not advise me to go audition it somewhere else.  This left me with a decision that if I wanted to buy this product from the dealer that showed it to me it was basically going to cost me $1,000.00 for an hour of his time.  Both dealers were honest and legitimate in ther approach to me as a customer.  What do you do in this situation.  I think $1K is way to much to pay for the value he added.

Yes $1K is a huge difference - did this dealer offer to lower his price?

I think that this is an issue that the audio equipment manufactures can solve very easily. You can only sell what you have in stock to Demo. For example, if you only stock 7Bs, you can only sell 7Bs and nothing else. This would level the playing field among all audio retailers.

The audio retailers who stocks very little have lower overhead costs and can drop the price accordingly. I also experienced this issue at Future Scrap when I was purchasing our 70 inch Sony. FS did not stock this big screen TV because they could not justify the floor space required. The sales rep told me to go next door and audition this big screen at the Sony Store. He offered $100 off of their price and I went next door and purchased it from the Sony Store.

With audio equipment, you really must hear it before you buy it.

Be well...

Hi Andy,

As a strong believer in free market economics I would not be in favor of restraining an authorized dealer from selling something he doesn't have in stock to level the playing field.  Let the free market do that by forcing the dealer who does carry the item for demo to provide a more competitive price.  Perhaps a small percentage more would make it more possible to buy from him.  Hope you're enjoying that X-05.  I'll be ordering mine soon.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Happy to hear that you are going with the Esoteric X-05.  It is truly an awesome SACD player. It is going to take you a little bit to unpack it - it is packaged in three boxes! The black X-05 also looks awesome! I think my delivery time was around three weeks or so.

I am still scratching my head with respect to the component stocking issue. My audio dealer not only was one of the better stocked stores - but totally beat the competition price wise. I was extremely lucky to have the best of both worlds. It was very important for me to audition this system before I purchased it.

Message me when you get your X-05

Be well,

Andy

[Laundrew]

The sales representative was standing in front of a $40K system and he was calling other audio manufactures equipment sh*t, and then he looked at me and said I could not afford this equipment anyway. I have never been so disgusted by the arrogance and loathing from a sales representative.

I heard via "the grapevine" that this audio store has closed....I wonder why

[K Shep]

I think the most important thing a good dealer can do is to allow you to try a product in your home before you buy it.

This is huge!  But now I can't buy anything from Audiogon.

[Laundrew]

I think the most important thing a good dealer can do is to allow you to try a product in your home before you buy it.

This is huge!  But now I can't buy anything from Audiogon.

Some audio dealers request a Visa "swipe" to let you borrow equipment for a home audition - I think that this is more than fair and is indicative of a good audio dealer.

[vegasdave]

Hey Laundrew, it's not just goths, it's rocker guys like me too. People just frown on these subcultures.

Before I go to a high end dealer, I'll dress up in a suit or whatever, but if they give me an attitude even if I look presentable, I hightail it out of there.

But really, you shouldn't have to dress like you're going to a wedding to get taken seriously by these guys.

That's cool that you found a good dealer. I did too.