[Curly Woods]

I have worked in high end audio from 1980 until 2000.  It is a mixed bag with respect to each store.  Most everyone that I stayed with were very well ran and did not "profile" their customers before offering any services.  I have seen many of the elite salons (mostly in NY area) that seem to thrive with this very haughty attitude.  It seems that many people with lots of money, will only shop at these type of establishments, which I frankly never understood.  I guess it is really is about perception with little regard for the sound quality or the expertise that goes along with making a system sound its best. 
  It is sad that normal people have to feel less than to enter into a store to find out what the big deal is all about only to be turned away by snobs and people that do not know that the majority of high end sales are to middle class hobbyist that would rather spend their money on a stereo than a boat, motorcycle, etc.  I thankfully never saw it that way and hope that those that I assisted appreciated it.

[toobluvr]

I got into hi-end audio in the mid 90s and started visiting the hi-end shops in NYC.  I was stunned by the egos, condescension, snobbery, elitism and downright rudeness that I encountered in most of them.

This is why I don't shed a tear now as they struggle with competition from the internet, and the bad economy in general.

Sure, changing buyer behavior (d/t the internet) and general economic woes had their effect, but many shops have exacerbated their own problems by not properly cultivating their customer base, and by being insufficiently welcoming to all.  Were they more open and friendly to everyone, instead of ignoring and ridiculing the guy not looking to spend $50k on a system, they'd be in much better shape now.

I was treated so poorly in those days, and it left such a bad taste in my mouth,  that I am actually glad they are now suffering.

[95Dyna]

I got into hi-end audio in the mid 90s and started visiting the hi-end shops in NYC.  I was stunned by the egos, condescension, snobbery, elitism and downright rudeness that I encountered in most of them.

This is why I don't shed a tear now as they struggle with competition from the internet, and the bad economy in general.

Sure, changing buyer behavior (d/t the internet) and general economic woes had their effect, but many shops have exacerbated their own problems by not properly cultivating their customer base, and by being insufficiently welcoming to all.  Were they more open and friendly to everyone, instead of ignoring and ridiculing the guy not looking to spend $50k on a system, they'd be in much better shape now.

I was treated so poorly in those days, and it left such a bad taste in my mouth,  that I am actually glad they are now suffering.

Hi toobluvr,

To your list of epithets I would add "just plain stupid".  You can have no idea by looking at someone what their intentions are or what kind of money they have.  It's been said that Sam Walton drove around in a beat up 20 year old pickup truck.  I wonder how he would have been treated pulling up to one of these stores in his truck with his $50B fortune safely tucked away somewhere else.  As you pointed out they are all going down now.  Pride always comes before the fall.  Arrogance will always blind one to this fact.

Bill

[droht]

I've heard some high end audio sales guys defend profiling as a necessary evil to prevent wasting time and missing real sales opportunities.  The funny thing is that you hardly ever, especially now, see a crowd of people in an audio retailer.  I can't imagine why, if you were in that sales position, you would not treat every person who wandered in like they were your only customer.  Because they might be...

[James Tanner]

Hi Guys,

So do you think the day of the 'specialty' audio retailer is over?

james

[Curly Woods]

I think that until this economy finds its way back, the middle class are hurting big time.  They accounted for the majority of the sales at the stores that I have worked in over the years.  Things go in cycles.  I do think that they will return once again.  When the country is flush and people are doing well financially, they love to spend money.  Problem is now, that few people have money to spare for their hobbies.  The 50's saw a down turn in consumer audio only to see it jump again going into the 60's til early 2000.  Could be wrong, but people like music and people with money need something to spend it on

[macrojack]

The high end audio customer base is populated by holdovers from the time when audio was still a growing industry. The very young have computer audio and personal stereo in Ipods and phones. They use headphones and are very happy. Count 99% of them out for the future.

In between, say 30 to 50 year olds, participate minimally but there are enough of them to keep forums purring quietly and a core of factory direct equipment sales barely surviving.

The majority of us are over 50 and already have multiples of everything. We still buy mostly out of habit and the momentum generated by peer enthusiasm. But we are, in fact, just going through the motions.

Nearly every week, there is a new obituary for someone who is or was a player in audio. Check Jim Thiel, Richard Brown and Chris Witmer recently.
Behind the scenes many more of us who don't participate in forums and clubs are dying away unnoticed by the larger audio community. This process will continue to accelerate as our average age increases, our funds are diverted by medical and other hard choices, and our hearing fails.

We are a dying breed and audio retailers will be lucky not to die before we do. It is basically all over for them. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Viajero5000]

The high end audio customer base is populated by holdovers from the time when audio was still a growing industry. The very young have computer audio and personal stereo in Ipods and phones. They use headphones and are very happy. Count 99% of them out for the future.

In between, say 30 to 50 year olds, participate minimally but there are enough of them to keep forums purring quietly and a core of factory direct equipment sales barely surviving.

The majority of us are over 50 and already have multiples of everything. We still buy mostly out of habit and the momentum generated by peer enthusiasm. But we are, in fact, just going through the motions.

Nearly every week, there is a new obituary for someone who is or was a player in audio. Check Jim Thiel, Richard Brown and Chris Witmer recently.
Behind the scenes many more of us who don't participate in forums and clubs are dying away unnoticed by the larger audio community. This process will continue to accelerate as our average age increases, our funds are diverted by medical and other hard choices, and our hearing fails.

We are a dying breed and audio retailers will be lucky not to die before we do. It is basically all over for them. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

That's a gloomy analysis, but I think the high end audio industry has bought it onto itself in many ways. Given the number of dodgy snake oil vendors out for a quick buck ($500 volume knob anyone? jeez man...), unreliable after sales service, and the almost absurd prices of most ?high end? gear,  how many young people could afford this hobby? The amount of money I?ve spent on my systems could almost equate a deposit on a mortgage or buy me a very nice new car. Which sensible 20 something would choose a stereo over that? Only a  fool or a die hard.  The others would just buy a $500 5.1 packaged theatre that would give them all the sound quality and functionality practically needed to watch a movie or listen to some music.  When I read reviewers labelling $15,000 pieces of kit as 'bargains', it just sounds like a sad, sad joke. I know it all boils down to the Swiss watch analogy, but given most people?s incomes and priorities, this industry has moulded itself into something that only a very few would consider as viable.

[James Tanner]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

james

[Levi]

+1

I surely agree. To this day, it is basically the same don't waste my time attitude.  Nothing new. I only look at it one way... That is money they will never see from me

--Levi

I got into hi-end audio in the mid 90s and started visiting the hi-end shops in NYC.  I was stunned by the egos, condescension, snobbery, elitism and downright rudeness that I encountered in most of them.

This is why I don't shed a tear now as they struggle with competition from the internet, and the bad economy in general.

Sure, changing buyer behavior (d/t the internet) and general economic woes had their effect, but many shops have exacerbated their own problems by not properly cultivating their customer base, and by being insufficiently welcoming to all.  Were they more open and friendly to everyone, instead of ignoring and ridiculing the guy not looking to spend $50k on a system, they'd be in much better shape now.

I was treated so poorly in those days, and it left such a bad taste in my mouth,  that I am actually glad they are now suffering.

[srb]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

Goodbye, James. 
 
In all seriousness, high-end manufacturers will need to make sure they have some nice lower cost entry-level components in their stable with trickle-down technology.
 
As the new generations of buyers replace the old ones, the average price of a system will surely go down.  There will always be a market for high-end, but as that market shrinks, those companies that only produce high-end will suffer.
 
Steve

[James Tanner]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

Goodbye, James. 
 

Crap - and I just bought some new speakers

james

[Viajero5000]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

james

IMO there certainly will remain a market, but only the fittest will survive on any large scale. For example, Bryston has carved a niche for itself via offering its 20 year warranty, truly outstanding customer service and well made products, and it also caters to customers who need audio equipment as a part of their job.  After experiencing some frustrating issues with other companies, I now only buy Bryston products as I can clearly see a better value proposition there (although my friends still gasp when I tell them spent $10,000 on my latest amp  ). Hopefully the actions of customers such as me will help ensure that the good companies survive and innovate while the trash is weeded out. 

[Kevin Haskins]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

james

I think so.   It won't happen over night and there are some well entrenched companies that are well-run, with diversified markets that will do better than others.    There will always be demand for "high-end" audio but there is little ambiguity about the future of what we call 2-channel consumer high-end audio.    It has an unmistakable demographic element to it that is without dispute.     As sure as you can calculate the rising cost of Social Security, you can count the declining market of high-end audio. 

There are two trends that make it difficult to change that demographic reality.   

#1.  Younger people have multiple other entertainment options that compete with high-end audio as an entertainment choice.   My kids show no inclination to sit around listening to music as a sole activity that mirrors their father's habits.    They play video games, watch movies or text with their friends.    They think I'm nutty... and for the most part they are right.   

#2.   Younger people are being hardest hit by our economic realities.   Unfortunately, the long-term prospects for prosperity look like the younger generation will be paying higher taxes, and in general having less disposable income going forward.   The cost of EVERYTHING is going up for them.   The cost of education, the cost of a car, the cost of insurance, the cost of medical care, the cost of paying my Social Security, the cost of housing (ok... that one has gone down a little).     Look at incomes, they are flat or down and going forward, I don't see anything that suggest we will have a long-term great growth of incomes as a population in North America.    In China.... yes.   In the USA, nope.

So... you have a combination of more competition, and less economic ability to pay "high-end" prices.   That has to impact the industry and since about 80% of high-end audio sales is to boomers, and I see little in the way of replacing those customers, the results for manufactures that focus upon that market segment are a forgone conclusion.

   

[macrojack]

I suspect Bryston is among the least vulnerable because of professional applicability, worldwide distribution, extremely high degree of perceived value and strength of organization. What is Pass without Nelson? How about JRDG or Music Reference or BEL or Klyne or (fill in the blank) going to do without the main man?

This process I describe has been under way for a long time and will overtake us gradually. It is natural progression and should not be lamented too deeply. Of course, the curve is getting steeper and casualties are bound to increase as we each are redirected one way or another. Meanwhile just keep grooving on your nostalgic music and remembering the fun you had. Life goes on.

[Viajero5000]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

Goodbye, James. 
 

Crap - and I just bought some new speakers

james

That reminds me, are the new MB2-XBDi's in James?

[James Tanner]

No - apparently it will be about another week or so.

james

[95Dyna]

Hi Guys,

So do you think the day of the 'specialty' audio retailer is over?

james

Hi James,

I don't think this industry is any different from any other in terms of how the free market will treat it.  Since the day Adam Smith first extolled the virtues of this economic model all markets and industries have gone through cyclical shakeouts where only the fittest survive.  If as a business you keep your financial house in order, especially during good times, and produce the most cost efficient, high value and technologically current products compared to your competitors you will be the survivor.  I don't see hi end audio as an industry going the way of the buggy whip.  I will admit that I am 58 and could be myopic in my view as an earlier post suggested but I don't get the sense that all of us on this and other forums are over 50.  Besides, appreciation of  music and its proper reproduction is a value we can and should be passing on to our children.  If we don't it will be our fault for its demise.

Bill

[TheChairGuy]

So I guess the writings on the wall for high-end audio manufacturers as well?

james

Probably not 'toast'...but, you will be adapting to your ever changing market to survive - yes.

But, that's the nature of any marketplace - to thrive you need to adapt, some subtly and others dramatically.

Hi end dealers tho......that ship ain't never coming back to port in my opinion 

John

[srb]

The audio snobbery, rudeness and disdain that I have felt from high-end brick and mortar audio retailers seems to be more prevalent in that industry than others.
 
I have been to and bought from high-end musical instrument, bicycle and furniture stores that didn't try to make me feel inferior or that I didn't belong there.  They made me feel good, were helpful, and I received other value-added services.
 
I wonder what it is about audio that brings out the worst in salespeople from some of these stores?
 
Steve