Alternative to Omega 5

Capt. Z · « **on:** 20 May 2009, 02:46 pm »

Hi;

I am still new to single driver speakers. Just recently I bought some used Omega 3, which I upgraded to the Omega 5 status with the help of Louis after getting a Bottlehead S.E.X. integrated amp. - 2 watt/channel.

I somewhat have a love-hate relationship with these speakers.
They do sound super clean, fast and involving, image well etc...
On the other side they sound rather 'small' and lean (I assume due to the small 4,5" driver) in comparisson to my ACI Sapphire III.

Just wandering what options I would have trading these speakers for others that have similar positive atributes, but sound larger.

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 May 2009, 03:57 pm »

Quote from: Capt. Z on 20 May 2009, 02:46 pm

Hi;

I am still new to single driver speakers. Just recently I bought some used Omega 3, which I upgraded to the Omega 5 status with the help of Louis after getting a Bottlehead S.E.X. integrated amp. - 2 watt/channel.

I somewhat have a love-hate relationship with these speakers.
They do sound super clean, fast and involving, image well etc...
On the other side they sound rather 'small' and lean (I assume due to the small 4,5" driver) in comparisson to my ACI Sapphire III.

Just wandering what options I would have trading these speakers for others that have similar positive atributes, but sound larger.

You can sell them and buy my bigger Omega speakers:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62413.0

I think they would definitely provide what you are looking for.

George

Capt. Z · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 May 2009, 04:01 pm »

Thought about this already and talked with Louis about it. But I am not really interested in spending more money. Just wanting to see what I could get in exchange for the Omega 5.

chrisby · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 May 2009, 05:23 pm »

have you tried borrowing a more powerful amp? if you're a fan of tubes, something like a even a 10-15 W P/P triode

at these levels of speaker/enclosure size and amplifier power, synergy is not guaranteed by pedigree, or any other single factor

Capt. Z · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 May 2009, 05:25 pm »

I have hocked them up to my Conrad Johnson CAV 50 amp 45W/ch. Sounds more controlled, but still the same 'size' soundwise.

konut · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 May 2009, 05:46 pm »

I have a pair of black laminate Omega Aperiodic 8s gathering dust. These use the Visaton B200 8" driver. These sound anything but small. I know you stated you didn't want to spend any more money, so I'm just throwing this out there in case you might change your mind. These would come with a Vinnie Rossi built compensation filter for an alternative sound to the stock configuration.

chrisby · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 May 2009, 05:56 pm »

Well, the only other observation would be that the same driver in a different enclosure ( i.e. in this case Louis' floorstander "Super") can certainly deliver "bigger" sound in terms of LF extension, as well as soundstage width, etc. - all the tweaky stuff.

However, it seems you're not looking for that kind of solution, and quite possibly your expectations cannot easily be met by any compact vented or sealed enclosure utilizing a driver of this size.

Another alternative might well be something like the Hornshoppe Horn - properly situated, "small" soundstage or limited bass response are not generally problems that you hear about with this design, even with single digit power levels. 2 WPC into these babies may not break the windows, but it certainly puts smiles on a lot of faces.

Capt. Z · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 May 2009, 06:02 pm »

Sorry, should have mentioned that mine are Super XRS 5 speakers. The large enclosure helps with lower notes, but I do miss are mids. And many times I can hear that the sound comes from a small driver.

nature boy · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 May 2009, 06:22 pm »

I really like my Horn Shoppe horns, which replaced a pair of Vandersteen 2ce speakers. These are rear loaded, folded, corner horns. They are "placement limited" require corner placement and Ed's cabinets well aren't Jim Salk quality by any stretch.

They sound great to my ears, but lack a true bottom end of a multiple driver speakers. I am running them with a puny 1.5 watts/channel Decware SET amp.

Maybe there is someone in your area with a pair you can listen to?

NB

chrisby · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 May 2009, 06:23 pm »

well, you may just be one of those folks for whom there is no replacement for the displacement

best of luck in your search

------

PS - If you're interested and haven't already heard a pair, a quick look at your profile reveals you could easily make a day-trip to visit Ed in Leesville, and enjoy the full Hornshoppe experience. By all accounts, the ride is worth the price of admission, and of course, you might not leave empty handed.

Capt. Z · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 May 2009, 06:24 pm »

Thanks for your encouraging words

DaveC113 · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 May 2009, 01:44 am »

I have the 3 XRS.

I use them with a 10" sealed sub x'ed over around 50-60 Hz to fill in the bottom range. Louis offers subs, they certainly help move more air...

I also think you might want to try a different amp. Faults I have attributed to the speakers I have later had to attribute to my system (I actually ended up building an amp for the speakers, its a 7-10 wpc kt88/el34 SET). I'd be willing to bet that's the case here, the fact you can "hear" the speaker points to an system/setup issue, IMO, but you might be better off going with a 8" ferrite magnet Omega and keeping the 2 wpc amp, they naturally have more of a rich, warm tone compared to the 4.5", and the sensitivity is def. a better match at 96 dB.

Capt. Z · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 May 2009, 01:52 am »

Hi Dave.

I have 2 ACI 12" subwoofers that I tried with the Omegas. It defiently improves the sound. However, like I said earlier: I sometimes can hear the small size of the driver. I would guess that the Omega 8 would propably solve that. However, even if I sold my Omega 5 and bought some used Omega 8 I would need some stands and a few hundred $$$. Can't swing that at the moment. BTW, what is the going rate for Omega 5 in perfect condition? Got the black, double sandwich base to go with?

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:18 am »

1. What kind of music are you listening to (when the speaker sounds small / lean)
2. How far back are you sitting
3. In what size room?
4. Speaker placement relative to the wall?

I have a very similar setup (same Bottlehead, speakers with 4.5" FE127eN's) and I think the issue is related to one of the above. Your experience is almost opposite of what I would expect -- small == point source == ability to disappear, at least when positioned perfectly on acoustic music, small ensemble jazz etc.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:28 am »

Quote from: Capt. Z on 21 May 2009, 01:52 am

Hi Dave.

I sometimes can hear the small size of the driver.

I would bet this is a system/setup issue. My amp is what finally made the speakers disappear. A small single driver should be the best of any speaker type for soundstaging, you shouldn't be able to "hear" the speaker, except for some (usually lower quality) recordings.

I think getting good results with a single driver depends a lot more on the listening room and system synergy than a conventional system, anyway you go you'll need to do some experimenting and tweaking to bring it all together, but it's worth it.

It could also be that you're in a really big room, I haven't tried that yet with my XRS, but I doubt they would be ideal in a very big room, listening far away from the speakers. Changing to a more nearfield setup could help if this is the case.

Dave

Capt. Z · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:32 am »

Here is my listening room.

I am sitting about 12 feet from the speakers.

Listening to classical music, especially an orchestra, I really hear the small size of the driver.

Listening to warm recorded Jazz - small ensamble, female vocal - sounds great, very clean, lots of detail, well focused.

The room is about 12' x 15'

The speakers DO disapear well, that was not my point. The other speaker you see in the picture - old ACI Sapphire III disapear even better than the Omegas.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:41 am »

Try moving the speakers up as far as possible. 6' away from listening position will be a lot better, but at least get them to the edge of the carpet. There is no way any speaker will sound good where you have them now.

They are not a great choice for listening to an orchestra, especially with a 2 wpc amp, this is true. Huge line arrays and a few kW might make for a nice 2nd system...

Capt. Z · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 May 2009, 03:01 am »

I had them next to my main speakers, similar sound. Tried other positions as well.

Reason I placed them so close to the rear wall is to get some fuller sound from room interaction.

However, these speakers do great listening at lower levels, while my wife is in the next room watching TV or our 'future child' will be sleeping.

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 May 2009, 03:21 am »

Okay, problem solved. Those speakers are not designed for orchestral's dynamics, which exceed the limits of the driver except at a very low volume. The driver is only capable of so much excursion. What you're hearing as "small and lean" is compression as the driver reaches its limits.

Capt. Z · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 May 2009, 03:28 am »

I agree partially with that.

The driver is just not designed for any complex music or sound, it does get congested, even without playing loud.

I believe it's strenght is more in smaller music groups, ow level listening, more live like character, fast, etc.