[Browntrout]

Yes the straight distance from connector to connector. This is something I find hard to visualise, the effect created by the crossovers, the non-receptive nature of the weave, the extra length of conductors and how resistance/inductance must change at these crossover points is making it hard for me to work out whats going on electrically.
  The peaks and troughs I initially thought related to the number of crossings in the weave, as with the greater number of conductors the crossings are actually closer together with a higher angle of incidence than the cables with less conductors.
  I know the angle of crossing has an effect, with the angle closer to 90 degrees the reduction in RFI is greater. Perhaps the gradient from trough to peak is relative to the angle of crossing, so with near 90 degree crossing the gradient increases? If one wire is near perpendicular to another the increase in inductance is more pronounced/increases more quickly.
  Am I right in applying Hall effect to this as in the Hall probe?
 

[Kevin Haskins]

The wiki states it's a clicking noise.

That's a different issue from the "jitter" usually associated with audio. Audio jitter manifests as noise some number of dB below the music. Typical values are 120 dB and lower, which is 20+ dB softer than the residual noise of 16 bits. In other words, it is never a problem, not even with the cheapest junk sound card built onto a budget computer mother board.

For anyone interested in learning more about the audibility of artifacts such as jitter, I urge you to read this article. Please download and listen to the example files too:

Artifact Audibility Report

--Ethan

Which is about 50-70dB below the non-linear distortion of a very good transducer playing at normal listening levels.    How you hear something that is that far down in the noise floor is puzzling by any standard. 

The aggravating thing about loosing an engineering perspective in relation to audio, is that we sit around discussing things that contribute 1000 times less distortion than the basic transducer.    It is like sitting around comparing the drag coefficient of your fork lift.    It is all but meaningless in it's performance.   

[Ethan Winer]

We are totally on the same page Kevin. IMO, the "last frontier" with this stuff is getting people to understand the limits of auditory memory, and the frailty of their own hearing. That's why I posted a link to my Artifacts article, so people can hear directly how even the most obnoxious noise is inaudible once it's 60+ dB down. Versus jitter that's another 50+ dB below that.

--Ethan

[turkey]

We are totally on the same page Kevin. IMO, the "last frontier" with this stuff is getting people to understand the limits of auditory memory, and the frailty of their own hearing. That's why I posted a link to my Artifacts article, so people can hear directly how even the most obnoxious noise is inaudible once it's 60+ dB down. Versus jitter that's another 50+ dB below that.

--Ethan

They won't bother actually trying it for themselves.

[Browntrout]

The three of you are rediculous. Completely destructive to good discussion. I hope you are not like this in real life.

[arthurs]

The three of you are rediculous. Completely destructive to good discussion.

Because they don't agree with you or their method of communication?

[JoshK]

The three of you are rediculous. Completely destructive to good discussion. I hope you are not like this in real life.

The only thing I find ridiculous is this response.  Their responses were quite appropriate to this discussion. 

[turkey]

The three of you are rediculous. Completely destructive to good discussion. I hope you are not like this in real life.

Have you looked at Ethan's web page and listened for yourself?

[Ethan Winer]

Their responses were quite appropriate to this discussion.

This is The Lab, right? Or did I make a wrong turn somewhere back on the home page?

--Ethan

[JoshK]

Their responses were quite appropriate to this discussion.

This is The Lab, right? Or did I make a wrong turn somewhere back on the home page?

--Ethan

Their, as in your and Kevin's responses. 

[Ethan Winer]

They won't bother actually trying it for themselves.

The nice thing about Wave file examples such as those in my Artifacts article is that nobody can complain that my system isn't "revealing" enough, as they might when the shoe is on the other foot. This lets people hear (or not hear) exactly what jitter and distortion artifacts sound like at various levels on their own systems.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Their, as in your and Kevin's responses.

Of course, I knew that. Sorry, I should have added a smiley face.

--Ethan

[Browntrout]

 Arthurs they are argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, if you can't see that then perhaps you can now I've pointed it out to you. As for rediculous comments how about this one.....
              
              "The admin here are duty bound, it would seem, to support a site sponsor in discussion,
                    anytime they are questioned an admin feels obliged to defend their sponsor"

 

[turkey]

They won't bother actually trying it for themselves.

The nice thing about Wave file examples such as those in my Artifacts article is that nobody can complain that my system isn't "revealing" enough, as they might when the shoe is on the other foot. This lets people hear (or not hear) exactly what jitter and distortion artifacts sound like at various levels on their own systems.

--Ethan

They'll just ignore it entirely or come up with other excuses.

I'm not even thinking of or referring to anyone in this discussion here. I'm thinking of a discussion of your web page that I saw on another site.

[JoshK]

Arthurs they are argumentative for the sake of being argumentative,

Only because they do not share your views.  They have offered up technical evidence to support their views, you have not.  In that sense, your posts really don't belong in "the lab" as they've point out.  This site supports all sorts of discussion, but when you bring a discussion to the lab a certain level of technical discussion should be expected.   

[JoshK]

FYI

Ridiculous

[turkey]

Arthurs they are argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, if you can't see that then perhaps you can now I've pointed it out to you. As for rediculous comments how about this one.....
              
              "The admin here are duty bound, it would seem, to support a site sponsor in discussion,
                    anytime they are questioned an admin feels obliged to defend their sponsor"

 

Browntrout,

I'm not sure what you think you're doing here, but you're obviously not here to have a rational discussion - unless you think that a discussion consists of you saying something and everyone else saying you're right.

You might try actually discussing things. Maybe you'll learn something. I know I have learned from this thread.

[turkey]

FYI

Ridiculous

Thank you.

[Ethan Winer]

They'll just ignore it entirely or come up with other excuses.

It amazes me that people can argue adamantly about subjects they admit they are not knowledgeable about. And even after being presented with logic and proof and audible examples, they continue to argue their original point anyway.

One thing I do agree with browntrout about is that some people are much more belligerent, for lack of a better word, in a public forum than they would be discussing the same stuff in your living room or at a quiet bar. Me, I always aim to be nice, and I always stay on topic. I never insult people unless they insult me first, and I never accuse people of not understanding even when it's clear they do not understand. Call me Don Quixote, but I still think it's worth trying to explain this stuff to people, even when it's clear they don't want to learn anything new.

--Ethan

[Browntrout]

I actually think you guys are delusional.
 Oh and thankyou for pointing out my spelling mistake as a way of belittling me. Great work!