[Browntrout]

Hello, about a year ago a complaint was upheld by the Electrical Engineers Assocoiation concerning claims made in advertising literature by Russ Andrews. The claim that his cables reduce RFI and EMI in the mains and that this improves the sound of HiFi equipment.
  Having owned these cables and heard the improvement for myself I was then ridiculed for believing them to work and Russ Andrews called most of the names under the sun on Vinylengine a site I used to chat on.
  Well Russ Andrews comisioned research and scientific testing to produce a paper that would prove his claims and defend his reputation and it is with great pleasure and some vindication that I link it here, surely anyone who claims powercords have no effect and that people are stupid for using them can now fall silent. Here is a laymans version.
http://www.russandrews.com/images/articles/WeavePaperAbstractDocv2.pdf

Here are the originals (more technical) and another set covering the 'clamping' of the mains supply.
http://www.russandrews.com/src/researchpaper09/article-research-papers-researchpaper09.htm

[turkey]

http://www.russandrews.com/images/articles/WeavePaperAbstractDocv2.pdf

I just read the abstract.

The test of power cords is actually testing how well they conduct RF, not how well they reject RF from outside. (The validity of this test depends upon where RF is entering the AC mains in your environment.)

They then injected RF into the AC input of an amplifier. (I know nothing about the Mission Cyrus or whether it is a typical design or not.) I don't see that they specify the level of the RF they are injecting, nor do they indicate whether it matches a typical amount of RF that could enter through a power cord in a typical home environment.

The RF evidently did raise the distortion level in the amplifier, although it went from extremely low to a hair less extremely low.

The last step is missing entirely. There is nothing in the abstract to indicate that any of this produced audible changes to the sound of the amplifier.

Oh, they also didn't examine what would happen if they changed from a plain IEC socket on the Mission amp to one of those inexpensive IEC sockets with a filter built in. It would be interesting to see how well a standard filter would block RF, and then compare the value-for-money between it and the Andrews power cords.

[soliver]

Thanks for the link, interesting stuff.

There was also a good two part article in Audio Ideas Guide??? a few years ago, where one guy did listening tests on the powercords and another did lab measurements.  They tested different things in that test, but the graphs were different, and interestingly enough the cords that tested the best were the ones greatly favored by the listener.

I have done listening tests on like 40+ powercords over the last several years.  The interesting thing to me is that some aftermarket powercords sounded worse across the board then the stock.  Some had areas of strengths, but then had big weaknesses that on average, I would still just go with the stock.  Some offer very slight improvements, some quite large, and a limited few offer jaw dropping performance.

I am not familiar with any of the Russ Andrews cords, but it looks like you could compare their weave to Shunyata cords helix weave, a brand I have extenisve experience with.  And thus in my experience the more strands in the weave the greater the performance level.  But on the lower level cords where their isn't any weaving going on or say only 4 strands, the performance level becomes very ho-hum, and not really worth the investment over stock.

I think the other interesting thing this report proves is the addage that you need cables of a certain length to optimize performance.  I have always heard this is due to the length of the 60Hz sine wave, and have often been steered away from going with any PC length less than 1.5M.  And after seeing this test, I can't believe any manufacturer would even do it.  Also interesting to see that the cords performs better at 3M over 2M.  I have never owned a PC over 2M, but I may have to investigate it at some point in the future after reading this.

Thanks again, probably would have never run across this.

[Browntrout]

Hello Soliver you are welcome. I agree with you regards nonwoven cords and woven cords with only a few conductors. I moved up through his line to the best copper ones going from eight to sixteen then to twentyfour conductors and noticed an improvement at each step of the way.
    The length is very interesting, the longer the cable the more crossings there are so there is also greater RF reduction. My setup seperates each component all the way to the wall with a 1m cord to a fourway block then a 2m cord to the component. Each component has it's own passive mains filter plugged into the fourway

You can see the filters I use here
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1427&customer_id=PAA2227049109251LCBSJBDUJMWQUSOP
 I use one for my preamp and one for my poweramp

  I did it this way so I had spare length enabling good placement of my gear when I moved. I had not considered the sine wave thing.
   Cheers for reading and writing. Take care, Browntrout.

P.s Your setup is very very nice indeed, just been looking at the pics. and your system description is how all should read.

[Brown]

Interesting paper. I'm with you.  Why do you pay attention to the naysayers ? Opinions are just that, opinions. Subjective ones as well.  What put Mr. Andrews in the hot pot was his original pricing. My goodness were they expensive. Which I believe is the main reason for debates on his powercords. Now if those Russ Andrew cords or others were say $150 or less the debate would not be so strong, if at all.  When its expensive the science or measurements are demanded.
   Browntrout you have a fine system and two ears that's all you need. No scientific proof, just insert in system and listen. I realize you know this already so excuse the reminder.  Having been in this hobby for some forty years I've seen and heard a lot. No matter what is said about cable or components it is within the eye of the beholder. Me when it concerns my system.
   Glad you feel vindicated as I believe you should be. Tough crowd out there. The naysayers can be brutal at times. Nice read, but in the end its how it sounds in YOUR system. It has been of rare occurrence in my experience that a cord, IC, speaker cable or component has sounded the same in other systems. Carry on you have nothing to prove, just enjoy the music. Thanks for the read.

[KS]

I think the other interesting thing this report proves is the adage that you need cables of a certain length to optimize performance.  I have always heard this is due to the length of the 60Hz sine wave, and have often been steered away from going with any PC length less than 1.5M.  And after seeing this test, I can't believe any manufacturer would even do it.  Also interesting to see that the cords performs better at 3M over 2M.  I have never owned a PC over 2M, but I may have to investigate it at some point in the future after reading this.

Please explain how a 1.5 meter or 3 meter or any other length of power cable relates to the 60 Hz wavelength of 4,997,820.41 meters???  (Right close to 3,105.5 miles.)

[Niteshade]

Browntrout,

The data is interesting- but the cable was not tested under a load as far as I can see.

[turkey]

Browntrout,

The data is interesting- but the cable was not tested under a load as far as I can see.

Interesting? I don't see that it is valid enough to be interesting.

[turkey]

   Browntrout you have a fine system and two ears that's all you need. No scientific proof, just insert in system and listen. I realize you

Well, the title of the thread did talk about scientific proof, and this is The Lab....

[Browntrout]

Hello Brown,
                I don't think it was his pricing that got him the attention more that he had no scientific data to back up the claims he made in his advertising when challenged. He himself states that he builds the products in Britain employing British people and paying them a proper wage, no doubt he makes a good living from his business but why not? Without sucessfull small specialist companies HiFi would become rather mundane and massproduced and not really HiFi at all.
  You are correct in that I should enjoy my system and not concern myself too much with what others think but I will say on the other hand if I know someones work to be of worth (and patronise them) I won't stand by and let them be put down on open forums unchallenged.
  It's all good in the end, I find this side of hifi really interesting, who knows in five years time maybe standard power cords will be of woven construction?

[turkey]

Hello Brown,
                I don't think it was his pricing that got him the attention more that he had no scientific data to back up the claims he made in his advertising when challenged. He himself states that he builds the products in Britain employing British people and paying them a proper wage, no doubt he makes a good living from his business but why not? Without sucessfull small specialist companies HiFi would become rather mundane and massproduced and not really HiFi at all.

Ok, so he's such a wonderful guy that he deserves Sainthood. Marvelous.

Why are you not willing to discuss the validity of the test results you wanted us to look at?

[Kevin Haskins]

The Corcom RFI filter would be much more effective if the premise is that conducted RFI is the issue.    I'd also point out that the difference in distortion numbers is nowhere near the threshold of audibility (as shown by research, not someones opinion).

[*Scotty*]

If someone wanted to DIY a powercord with a woven construction KIMBER KABLE 8TC or 12TC might be a good place to start.

As powercords go the price to construct them wouldn't be prohibitive. It runs about $20 a foot.
Scotty

[turkey]

The Corcom RFI filter would be much more effective if the premise is that conducted RFI is the issue.    I'd also point out that the difference in distortion numbers is nowhere near the threshold of audibility (as shown by research, not someones opinion).

Now don't go getting rational on us.

[Browntrout]

Hello Brown,
                I don't think it was his pricing that got him the attention more that he had no scientific data to back up the claims he made in his advertising when challenged. He himself states that he builds the products in Britain employing British people and paying them a proper wage, no doubt he makes a good living from his business but why not? Without sucessfull small specialist companies HiFi would become rather mundane and massproduced and not really HiFi at all.

Ok, so he's such a wonderful guy that he deserves Sainthood. Marvelous.

Why are you not willing to discuss the validity of the test results you wanted us to look at?

The reason is simple I'm not the person who wrote the paper nor do I claim to understand the specific case well enough to enter into meaningfull debate about it. That's an honest answer isn't it? As for more effective reduction in RFI there are several solutions that offer more reduction but these have also been found to alter the sound.

[turkey]

The reason is simple I'm not the person who wrote the paper nor do I claim to understand the specific case well enough to enter into meaningfull debate about it. That's an honest answer isn't it?

You probably picked the wrong circle to post it in then.

As for more effective reduction in RFI there are several solutions that offer more reduction but these have also been found to alter the sound.

Oh? Do you have more papers on that topic for us to read?

[Kevin Haskins]

The Corcom RFI filter would be much more effective if the premise is that conducted RFI is the issue.    I'd also point out that the difference in distortion numbers is nowhere near the threshold of audibility (as shown by research, not someones opinion).

Now don't go getting rational on us.

I try my best to be a little irrational now and then.    Too much rationality isn't good for you.   I find that I need to take "rationality breaks" once in awhile just to enjoy myself.    

Today, I had a Big Mac for lunch.    If that isn't irrational I don't know what is.    Tomorrow I'm planning on running around my house naked at midnight.  

[Ethan Winer]

Tomorrow I'm planning on running around my house naked at midnight.

Pics or it didn't happen!

[Bill A]

Please explain how a 1.5 meter or 3 meter or any other length of power cable relates to the 60 Hz wavelength of 4,997,820.41 meters???  (Right close to 3,105.5 miles.)

It is more likley the length is related to the effectivness of the cable as a filter. A wavelength of 3 meters is 200Mhz, 100Mhz for half wavelength, 50Mhz for quarter, etc.

Bill

[turkey]

The Corcom RFI filter would be much more effective if the premise is that conducted RFI is the issue.    I'd also point out that the difference in distortion numbers is nowhere near the threshold of audibility (as shown by research, not someones opinion).

Now don't go getting rational on us.

I try my best to be a little irrational now and then.    Too much rationality isn't good for you.   I find that I need to take "rationality breaks" once in awhile just to enjoy myself.    

Today, I had a Big Mac for lunch.    If that isn't irrational I don't know what is.    Tomorrow I'm planning on running around my house naked at midnight.  

You lead an exciting life.