[macrojack]

This tube thing is like a religion. Just look at the wording of the question that introduces this post. It is arrogant, condescending, presumptive and insulting. It basically asks if there are any idiots left out there.

I've got some very fine monoblock tube amps sitting here because I'd rather not bother with the damn things. I'm using a nice cool running JRDG 102 amplifier for the convenience and practicality but also because, given the difference in sound, I'd rather listen to it.

While your massaging each other about your single driver toys and your open baffle experiments, I'm using a pair of world class horns. Are there really folks that prefer cones sonically?

It's all really a great big so what! If you like your fire bottles, you've made a fine choice. But you must acknowledge that yours is not the only valid choice.

It's almost like you are seeking validation by enlisting support. Be yourself and be happy. And be aware that there is no absolute sound. Every flavor is right for somebody.

[FullRangeMan]

The problem with SS amp is they are obsoleted very fast by a new transistor device every 6 month, a new topology in afew years ( the PASS XA line last 5 years and are superexceded by the new .5 line). The tube gear no have this problem, the 2A3 tube is from 1930 years and are blowing hard in the Fi amps today.

you have got to be kidding !!!!  another generalized statement with NO substance what-so-ever !

He didn't express his point well,...

Sorry my poor English, it is some rusty as it is not my native language and I do not live in North America.
Best Wishes to all guys,  Full

[JimJ]

I know the question is a loaded one in a tube-o-phile circle, but it dosn't fit really anywhere else.

I get that solid state tends to be more reliable, doesn't have tube replacements to bother with, etc...but, do folks out there actually prefer solid state in all instances over tube gear?

I only use tube amps (I prefer solid state preamp for critically quiet vinyl gain)...but, without some measure of tubes in the system, my system lacks enjoyment   I've tried to do without them, but simply cannot bear it

I know that the hassle of tubes turns off some...but are there those out there that actually prefer, sonically, solid state to tubes in all instances?  Especially if you run a CDP and or DAC, tubes just add bloom that is ordinarily missing from the digits.

John

I've heard all-solid state systems I've enjoyed, a lot. I'll probably own an all-SS system in the future.

But since I only have one system now, it's tubes

[TheChairGuy]

This tube thing is like a religion. Just look at the wording of the question that introduces this post. It is arrogant, condescending, presumptive and insulting. It basically asks if there are any idiots left out there.

Ouch (as the OP of this topic, Thom )

But, I think you're guilty of skimming the topic rather than reading as I mention throughout my preference is only for tube amps (and, at that, not all of them made) and solid state in the rest of the locations (subwoofer excepted, of course )

I find, nonetheless, it's easier to mess up sonics more substantially with all solid state in tow.

If you're offended by that - oh, well, it is the Tube-o-phile Circle and that affords us certain liberties to express ourselves

Why not volunteer for a Solid Gold Circle focusing on solid state...and you can then tell me to pound 'sand' if I made the same comment(s)

btw, I've not ruled out all solid state in the future...but I've yet to hear a fully satisfying system without tubes in it.  However, if I was 100% vinyl, I might find SS fully satisfying.

John

[*Scotty*]

werd, Devices like FETs,MOSFETs and Bipolar transistors have a positive temperature coefficient,that is the hotter they get the more current will flow through them. Until they warm up to a temperature substantially above room temperature the proper amount of bias current will not run through them and the circuits distortion will be higher which is audible.
This is one reason why solid state equipment has to warm up.
Scotty

[Ericus Rex]

YIKES!  This is getting a bit ugly!  I took this thread as being a tongue-in-cheek, man-hug among tube enthusiasts.  It is, after all, in the Tube-O-Phile circle.  Maybe we should lighten-up a bit?

I personally own both SS and tube amps.  I like each's respective strengths and switch between them as my mood suits.  My favorite amp, the one that gets it all right and excites me most is all tube.  I very much like my SS amp but I'm not as involved in the music when it's in the system.  I have yet to hear a SS preamp I love.

[jhm731]

Interesting TAS blog on SS vs. tubes:

http://www.avguide.com/blog/lets-call-the-whole-thing

From TAS reviewer Robert E. Greene's post:

"I think a lot of "tube sound"--albeit not all of it, quite--could be duplicated by DSP EQ if one did it carefully. And this would have the great advantage that one could adjust it. Buying a tube amp is like buying a tone control--but you cannot change its settings!"

[jon_010101]

From TAS reviewer Robert E. Greene's post:

"I think a lot of "tube sound"--albeit not all of it, quite--could be duplicated by DSP EQ if one did it carefully. And this would have the great advantage that one could adjust it. Buying a tube amp is like buying a tone control--but you cannot change its settings!"

I would argue that buying a bad amp is like buying a tone control plus dynamics processor plus distortion generator - solid state or tube.  But a "good" tube amplifier will not add much coloration or frequency response deviation.  It irks me that discussions like these rarely acknowledge that some tube amps actually perform measurably well, and that there is nothing limiting them in theory besides the creativity and motivations of the engineers (except perhaps the expense).

Of course, reading that article, I think it may be unfair to compare that Soulution amp with anything else on the market 

[macrojack]

O.K. I apologize. You guys are just having a group hog in your corner of the playground.

If you read carefully (few do), you will find that I did not attack your choice or really take a side in the debate. There is a flavor for everyone and your choice or preference is not a status issue or a comment on your judgment. But the tone of this thread definitely infers that only losers could still be using SS when tubes are available. Why bother?

I don't understand why anybody would want a yipping, neurotic little dog.

[Thebiker]

The bottom line to the last four pages of this thread (IMO  ) is that whatever is in YOUR system that makes your toes tap and puts a smile on your face is the right way for you!

After all, it is all sand.  Last I checked it was "sand" that was used to make glass  .

So have your favorite beverage, turn up the music and enjoy.  And yes, I am a tube guy.

Walt

[JCC]

This tube thing is like a religion. Just look at the wording of the question that introduces this post. It is arrogant, condescending, presumptive and insulting. It basically asks if there are any idiots left out there.

Agreed - The quality of the sound would not matter to many of you, because you have tubes stuck in your &&ear. 

I agree with Arthur Salvatore, that the noise floor and low level detail was better in some tubes units, especially the flea power ones with 300B tubes. Today, the 300B is bested by the new Nelson Pass designs using JFET in a single ended class A amplifier. The noise floor and distortion puts tubes to shame. But it won't matter, unless you blow some glass and sell it in a bottle for the bottleheads.
 

So tubes are here to stay, at least as long as they are available!! The duel will continue until there are no tubes!

[Niteshade]

Keep it fun folks! 


We have one fact to go on: Both technologies have not been around that long as I said in a previous post. Both have room for improvement. Humanity has had these new technological toys for only around 4 generations (including tubes). This is a wonderful, exciting journey!

There's a relatively new player coming in on the SS field: Class D HiFi. Class D is the most efficient operating class of a transistor OR a tube. New developments are happening all the time. I do believe it has great potential!

Yes- I do believe a solid state circle would be beneficial. I like it that the SS people visited this circle so that we can learn from each other.   

[werd]

werd, Devices like FETs,MOSFETs and Bipolar transistors have a positive temperature coefficient,that is the hotter they get the more current will flow through them. Until they warm up to a temperature substantially above room temperature the proper amount of bias current will not run through them and the circuits distortion will be higher which is audible.
This is one reason why solid state equipment has to warm up.
Scotty

thankyou that is correct. made me pull out the old text books and have a gander. I just remember there was problem with these bipolor transistor operating in the so called room temperatures. How biasing devices for extreme cold can leviate some current and voltage issues involving linearity,  its been awhile sorry about that.

[charmerci]

I have yet to hear an all-tube system that doesn't play boomy and loose with the bass. (Bleah!) Granted my exposure to tube systems is limited - only in high end shops. I'm sure that there are some really nice tube systems but I can't afford those. Until I hear anything to change my mind, my AVA SS gear is non-fatiguing and sounds fantastic - hour after countless hours, year after year.

[timind]

I got in on this thread early with an opinion. Was hoping it wouldn't turn in to a pissing contest, should have known better.

[twitch54]

O.K. I apologize. You guys are just having a group hog in your corner of the playground.

lets see...... does that mean you like bacon or you ride a Harley ?????

Nothing wrong with a open discussion but tubes vs. SS is akin to analog vs. digital....those that know anything about audio know that either analog, digital, tubes, SS; done correct can be wonderfull !!!

[doug s.]

I have yet to hear an all-tube system that doesn't play boomy and loose with the bass. (Bleah!) Granted my exposure to tube systems is limited - only in high end shops. I'm sure that there are some really nice tube systems but I can't afford those. Until I hear anything to change my mind, my AVA SS gear is non-fatiguing and sounds fantastic - hour after countless hours, year after year.

charmer, i am cut-n-pasting part of one of my prior posts - seems it talks about what you are talking about - i agree that s/s is superior to tubes on the bass. 

this is the one area where s/s amps rule - for subwoofing.  as i am always subwoofing, i see no area where tube amps won't outperform s/s amps sonically w/most speakers, above the subwoofer x-over point.  i presently enjoy a choice of several low-power tube amps for the efficient speakers i am presently using - they all make 4 to 8wpc, and absolutely will blast you out of the room w/spls and dynamics, w/my fostex fe206e's in oris 150 horns.  i also have a pair of 6c33c set monoblocks that will go surprisingly loud w/many "normal" speakers, when crossed over to subs.  since i went to using subs in the early 90's, and didn't discover the pleasure of tube amps until a couple years later, i have never had any issues w/tube amps and low bass - i have never asked this of them.

my x-over point for my subs is usually ~80hz, sometimes a little higher, sometimes a little lower, depending on what speaker i have been using.  i have never had a tube amp deficient in comparison to s/s, down to this frequency.  presently, i run a 15" midwoofer, (8 ohms, 100db-efficient), from ~80hz to ~250hz; i was driving it w/an 8wpc push-pull 6aq5 amp; it did great.  a while ago, i swapped it out for a s/s gain-clone chip amp.  no sonic differences i could notice; i did it only cuz it's more energy-efficient, and no reason to use up the nice nos wintage tubes in that amp, for 80-250hz output.   

doug s.

[Ericus Rex]

Great point about the sub amp, Doug!  Let SS amps work their magic on the bass and let tubes work their magic on the other 19,000 Hz.

I know the main gripe about the "tube sound" is boomy bass.  In my humble opinion, the better tube designs I've heard I wouldn't call boomy or tubby at all.  I'd call the bass realistic.  I'm trying to recreate a live event in my house and in concert halls the bass registers don't have a SS type 'slam or authority'.  I'd call live bass full and weighty and tubes deliver that sound, to my ears.

[doug s.]

now, i have read about my mesa baron's low end response, and have been told it actually does rival solid state amps for solid bass.  but, i have never run it full-range, it has always been in a system w/subs.  i do believe that there are tube amps that will do good tight un-boomy bass, but many (most?) of these amps are multi-tube energy-sucking goliaths.  it seems solid state amps are easily the most logical choice for subterranean bass response. 

ymmv,

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

I got in on this thread early with an opinion. Was hoping it wouldn't turn in to a pissing contest, should have known better.

YIKES!  This is getting a bit ugly!  I took this thread as being a tongue-in-cheek, man-hug among tube enthusiasts.  It is, after all, in the Tube-O-Phile circle.  Maybe we should lighten-up a bit?

Maybe I'm not the most sensitive type...but, it seems to be an overwhelmingly civil conversation to me. 

I think this is one of the undercurrent of ideas for the site owner (JohnR) wanting smaller niche circles instead of giant, overreaching ones (like Audio Central and Sports Bar).  The Tube-o-phile Circle is where a certain amount of gloating about the glory of tubes should exist...or the circle probably doesn't have a right to be at all.

Some opinions have been expressed and some 'facts' given in this topic.  Everything seems to be aboveboard, sincere and quite civil from the start (but Facilitator JakeJ will decide, ultimately)

Regards, John