[Tyson]

Another quote that is apropos to SS in comparison to tubes

Going not quite as far but in half the time

[*Scotty*]

When I stated my preferences in my first post I was only explaining my choices and not defending SS gear. I don't think either approach is intrinsically better than the other. For myself my choices reflect my experiences with a Superphon REV III preamp,a custom LM3875 chip based power amp and a highly modified Cambridge 740C with a 100watt power supply for the analogue output stage. I do use a rebuilt/modified FISHER FM 100B for my tuner because it sounds better than the solid state tuners I have been exposed to. My experiences with solid state vs tube gear are probably atypical when compared to a those of the audiophile community in general. If I had to live with Prêt-à-Porter equipment I might have a preference for thermionic gear in other locations in my system.
Scotty

[WerTicus]

I prefer SS

Takes more effort to get the right sound, though once you have it its easier to maintain!

[pearsall001]

Solid State circuits are great for digital audio gears, image gears, car audio, computers, cells phones, washing machines, etc...

To amplify music tubes have the best sound, have sweet harmonics, large soundstage and better musicality than Transzistorrs...
There is a old adagio about this:  Transistor makes sense, tubes makes music.

I can not view why a sane person will prefer use a SS music amp, unless he is a Pro-Audio worker and by this have hard ears and a opinion lead to favor the SS studio amp brands of his beloved work.

As Iam not radical, in last case I can accept a SS amp, since it is Class A output, because without alot of heat there is no sound quality.
Sincerely,  Full

P.S.: Sorry Class AB fans.

Total nonsense & complete gibberish. Opinions sure do vary though.

[BobM]

My speakers tend to prefer solid state for bottom end control. Yes, the mids sound better with tubes, but the top and bottom need SS. I do use tubes in the preamp and phono stage though. I've found that pleased me more than a SS preamp.

Bob

[bpape]

Good Class A discreet amps (SS) can do a fine job and control the speakers.  I've been all tube, all SS, mix, etc.  I always come back to SS amplification and tube preamp.  That, to me, gives me the benefits of both.

Just my 2 cents

Bryan

[TheChairGuy]

Yup on all here.

Preferred solid state preamps tend to be dual mono when preferred over tube....and the tube ones closer to ideal for me when they are voltage regulated.   I've yet to hear (or know when I'm hearing) a tubed, dual mono preamp (the best dual mono, for me, means straight back to twin power supplies)

I've not had an extensive list of expensive preamps here (but I have had a lot of preamps, overall in the past 7 years here) and the best are, in pecking order of pleasure:

1.  Pioneer SX-a9-J; Dual mono right back to the twin toroids
2.  Mitsubishi DA-C20; Another dual mono beauty (from the late 70's)
3.  Superphon Revelation Dual Mono

I preferred these to all manners of Dynaco's (tho the PAS-4 was real good) and Quicksilver Full Function Preamp. Probably something else I missed in there

The above SS preamps sounded good when paired with SS amp(s), but great with tube amp(s).  But, as has been echo'ed throughout the topic, opinions vary widely.

Great that the topic is keeping civil - I was hoping it would

John

Hi Rydenfan,

I agree with doug s. in that you should feel free to state a brand of SS pre you liked over any tube based unit you have heard.  I'm curious myself as I run a McCormack ALD-1 that has Rev A+ mods done to it and it absolutely smokes my Quicksilver tube preamp.  The OP (TCG) has stated his own experiences mixing SS and tubes and called for opinions.

And speaking of opinions let's keep in mind that that is what they are.  FULLRANGEMAN is just stating his, doesn't make him right and doesn't make him wrong, just heavily biased (like the better SS amps I have heard ).

This has certainly been an entertaining and civil thread thus far, keep up the good work!

Thanks,
JakeJ

[twitch54]

But with all this hi prices this brands can not beat a transparency and stage of a AtmaSphere OTL ( only 6500 dollars for a M60mk3 mono pair 60w).

Again, your opinion, of which your intitled, but making it in a generalized sense without component matching info is totally useless !

Oh, and  BTW, one of the sweetest sounds I heard this past Oct @ RMAF was a pair of Joule OTL's driving a pair of Bobby Palkovic's, Merlin VSM-MX's. Now go and try running the same amps or your Atma sphere's up against a pair of Martin Logan CLS's for example, me thinks it would not be too good !!

The problem with SS amp is they are obsoleted very fast by a new transistor device every 6 month, a new topology in afew years ( the PASS XA line last 5 years and are superexceded by the new .5 line). The tube gear no have this problem, the 2A3 tube is from 1930 years and are blowing hard in the Fi amps today.

you have got to be kidding !!!!  another generalized statement with NO substance what-so-ever !

[doug s.]

chair-guy/john, you might be interested in searching out a used melos ma333 or 333r to audition - these are dual mono, w/two toroids in a separate cabinet; w/two separate umbilical cords going back to the main chassis.  two separate power switches to turn on each channel.     that said, even the single-toroid one-box melos sha-gold-r is stil a fine sounding thing in its own right...

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

chair-guy/john, you might be interested in searching out a used melos ma333 or 333r to audition - these are dual mono, w/two toroids in a separate cabinet; w/two separate umbilical cords going back to the main chassis.  two separate power switches to turn on each channel.     that said, even the single-toroid one-box melos sha-gold-r is stil a fine sounding thing in its own right...

doug s.

Doug,

I might just

Is it a line or does it have phono?  I dig my preamps with phono functions to cut down the clutter and fuss, ya' know

John

[Watson]

The problem with SS amp is they are obsoleted very fast by a new transistor device every 6 month, a new topology in afew years ( the PASS XA line last 5 years and are superexceded by the new .5 line). The tube gear no have this problem, the 2A3 tube is from 1930 years and are blowing hard in the Fi amps today.

you have got to be kidding !!!!  another generalized statement with NO substance what-so-ever !

He didn't express his point well, but his overall thrust is valid. Solid state gear tends to age quickly. Is anyone really interested in solid state gear from even 10 years ago? (With a few exceptions, obviously.) For instance, most of the pre-SST Bryston gear was very well-reviewed at the time but now is pretty clearly, even obviously, on the bright side of things in comparison to their newer gear. I wouldn't want any of the older stuff.

There are a handful of old solid state amps, e.g. old Marantz MOSFET units, that I'd pay for, but not much. On the other hand, almost any piece of tube gear from the 60s-onward in good condition is still worth a listen and tends to hold its own, even nearly 50 years later.

Undoubtedly some of this relates to it being relatively easy to make a good sounding tube amp and very difficult to make a good sounding SS amp.

[jaywills]

"even the single-toroid one-box melos sha-gold-r is stil a fine sounding thing in its own right..."

I'm using a Melos SHA-Gold Reference Maestro as a pre and have always found myself putting it back into the chain whenever it's been taken out to try other things (Modwright, Transcendent Sound, TacT 2.2x used as both dac-processor and as preamp--now simply using as dac-processor).  Here's a bit of a disjointed thread by someone else with one:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/melos-creme-de-la-creme-sha-gold-vs-sha-maestro-8165/

Cordially,

[doug s.]

chair-guy/john, you might be interested in searching out a used melos ma333 or 333r to audition - these are dual mono, w/two toroids in a separate cabinet; w/two separate umbilical cords going back to the main chassis.  two separate power switches to turn on each channel.     that said, even the single-toroid one-box melos sha-gold-r is stil a fine sounding thing in its own right...

doug s.

Doug,

I might just

Is it a line or does it have phono?  I dig my preamps with phono functions to cut down the clutter and fuss, ya' know

John

john,

the two-chassis ma333 is line-stage only.  to get the melos fono stage, add the matching third chassis.     there were two interations of the ma333/ma333r - balanced, w/three ins/outs, and single-ended, w/six ins/outs.  plus, two functioning tape loops, a mute/mono switch and phase rewersal.  later iterations have remote for wolume/balance.  i initially had a balanced wersion; i traded for one that was modded w/tube wolume pot, and single-ended.  i much prefer having the additional inputs of the single-ended, and don't run balanced, so it was a no-brainer for me.  if you want s/s fono stage, what's a bit of extra clutter?     w/this guy, you can check out different fono stages.  even tho i really like my s/s pentagon pd-3 fono stage, i am intrigued by the new (and much less expensive) jolida tube fono stage.  hmmm...   

i really enjoy the full features of this pre - i have a dbx 3bx that i run thru one of the tape loop - i rarely use it, but on extremely compressed recordings or pop radio stations, it's nice to have.  otherwise, it's completely out of the signal path. 

here's a pic of the single-chassis sha gold pre sitting on top of an ma333r balanced pre and its p/s (note the balance control shown on the ma333r is typically modded to operate the left channel only, w/the wolume pot on the right operating the right channel):



same stuff from the rear:



here's an older one w/o remote, rca iteration, in silver - note the six line inputs (plug your fono stage into the one labeled "phono"):



doug s.

[Kevin Haskins]

Yes...  there are some that do.   It is more than just tubes vs. SS though.  It is about the entire system design.   There are a number of ways to skin a cat.

[werd]

Solid State circuits are great for digital audio gears, image gears, car audio, computers, cells phones, washing machines, etc...

To amplify music tubes have the best sound, have sweet harmonics, large soundstage and better musicality than Transzistorrs...
There is a old adagio about this:  Transistor makes sense, tubes makes music.

I can not view why a sane person will prefer use a SS music amp, unless he is a Pro-Audio worker and by this have hard ears and a opinion lead to favor the SS studio amp brands of his beloved work.

As Iam not radical, in last case I can accept a SS amp, since it is Class A output, because without alot of heat there is no sound quality.
Sincerely,  Full

P.S.: Sorry Class AB fans.

I find it interesting how everyone decides that all audio gear needs to be warmed up to sound good and maybe it does. But doesnt real linearity come from running SS devices in extreme cold operating temperatures, especially when u have gating in the mix somewhere. I remember back in my electronic classes cooling off the transistors with a spray(cant remember what it was) but what it did was raise the beta on the transistor. If this is true than Tube gear will never come close to the linearity of SS. I think running super cooled SS devices are in the future somewhere. Not sure about any of this its just a notion that i've had for years with SS.

[Niteshade]

"I find it interesting how everyone decides that all audio gear needs to be warmed up to sound good and maybe it does. But doesnt real linearity come from running SS devices in extreme cold operating temperatures, especially when u have gating in the mix somewhere. I remember back in my electronic classes cooling off the transistors with a spray(cant remember what it was) but what it did was raise the beta on the transistor. If this is true than Tube gear will never come close to the linearity of SS. I think running super cooled SS devices are in the future somewhere. Not sure about any of this its just a notion that i've had for years with SS."


Hello-

Unless otherwise stated, electronics gear likes to operate at room temperature, around 65-70 degrees F.  Room temperature is a norm and recommended for most consumer electronics. The same goes for tube equipment. If you have a device that produces a fair amount of heat, I do strongly suggest some kind of forced air cooling. It doesn't have to be a wind tunnel- just something that promotes some air circulation.

Blair

[twitch54]

There are a handful of old solid state amps, e.g. old Marantz MOSFET units, that I'd pay for, but not much. On the other hand, almost any piece of tube gear from the 60s-onward in good condition is still worth a listen and tends to hold its own, even nearly 50 years later.

Nelson Pass's 'stasis' (I had an S300 driving my Maggie 3.6's) from twenty plus years ago was and still is a strong contender, again, IMO. Plenty of current capability along with a good amount of class A bias (first 30 watts or so I believe).

[toobluvr]

    
Q:   "Are there really folks that prefer solid state sonically?"

Yeah....
Those that have not heard tubes done right, or have speakers that require SS.

And I know I will be killed by the sand afficionados for this, but maybe those that don't hear particularly well also are included in that category?        

There are many many examples of SS "devotees" being converted to tubes.
I don't hear too many reports of it the other way around.

That alone says a lot.

[TheChairGuy]

   
Q:   "Are there really folks that prefer solid state sonically?"

There are many many examples of SS "devotees" being converted to tubes.
I don't hear too many reports of it the other way around.

That alone says a lot.

Yup, well...that was me a few years ago.  I still find tubes to be (more often than not) too soft for my ultimate tastes...but voltage regulation and dual power supplies in tube preamps or amps mostly cures that illness

For tube preamps that I've heard, it doesn't quite overcome the higher noise (mostly for vinyl).  For tube amps, monoblocking and voltage regulation (whether tube or SS) is divine

John

[werd]

"I find it interesting how everyone decides that all audio gear needs to be warmed up to sound good and maybe it does. But doesnt real linearity come from running SS devices in extreme cold operating temperatures, especially when u have gating in the mix somewhere. I remember back in my electronic classes cooling off the transistors with a spray(cant remember what it was) but what it did was raise the beta on the transistor. If this is true than Tube gear will never come close to the linearity of SS. I think running super cooled SS devices are in the future somewhere. Not sure about any of this its just a notion that i've had for years with SS."


Hello-

Unless otherwise stated, electronics gear likes to operate at room temperature, around 65-70 degrees F.  Room temperature is a norm and recommended for most consumer electronics. The same goes for tube equipment. If you have a device that produces a fair amount of heat, I do strongly suggest some kind of forced air cooling. It doesn't have to be a wind tunnel- just something that promotes some air circulation.

Blair

Oh yes i agree with that. Operating a SS can gear can actually be run successfully right down to a point where condensation begins to become a concern. probably in the 5-10 degree range. Below freezing and the devices begin to have condensation develop, or risk of.

Around 65 degrees is a reasonable point, too hot and thermal issues come into play like compression. Tubes have a smaller window of operating temps.