Announcing the "Insight+" low cost upgrade

sueata1 · « **Reply #40 on:** 6 Mar 2009, 10:35 pm »

Frank,,,
You Never Bend anything,, always Form them to fit

Happy listening,,,
Mel

EV-MAN · « **Reply #41 on:** 7 Mar 2009, 01:54 am »

Just ordered my Op Amp upgrade today for my Insight Dac And Dynaco Pat-5 Insight. Look forward to getting them. Bill

JerryM · « **Reply #42 on:** 7 Mar 2009, 01:58 am »

Quote from: EV-MAN on 7 Mar 2009, 01:54 am

Just ordered my Op Amp upgrade today for my Insight Dac And Dynaco Pat-5 Insight. Look forward to getting them. Bill

I did the same for my T8 DAC.

It's always a pleasure to hear Frank answer the phone.

Have fun,
Jerry

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 09:14 pm »

Quote from: rlee8394 on 5 Mar 2009, 10:59 pm

Frank,

Would the work you would do to Tom's PAT-5 Fet-Valve also apply to the Fet-Valve in the original AVA first generation SL chassis circa 1993? I have one of those if you need to evaluate it. Also, wouldn't that be the same as an update to the prior T7 series? Did the T7 have the Exicon TO-220 mos-fets instead of the Hitachis? Are you only looking to change from the 12AX7 to 12AT7 tube in these older Fet-Valve units along with proper RC components?

Ron

Ron:

I think your 1993 era Fet-Valve is very similar to mine (except for the chassis). Mine was delivered to Frank today so he can start figuring out what can be done. I'm not in a big hurry as I have a spare preamp to use for now. The latest Ultra preamps have 6N1P tubes and lots of regulators which can't be retrofitted into this old PAT-5 chassis, so there is a limit to how much can be done. I suspect the 12AT7 change will be a nice improvement, but still not close to the new Insight and Ultra designs. I will be interested in Frank's assessment of the resulting upgrade. I won't be able to give a good comparative review as the tubes in it were weak (they are all getting replaced) and my only other preamp is a similar vintage Omega-II. Hopefully this will work well for a while till I'm ready to go for the Insight or Ultra preamp (I have the Ultra 550 amp and Insight DAC right now).

Tom

rlee8394 · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 11:28 pm »

Tom,

I think that what Frank is doing is bringing up older FV units to T-7 status. I believe that Dean Kayser was/is Franks engineer that made the change from 12AX7 to 12AT7 tubes for the line stage, along with applicable changes to R 's and C's. The only thing that I can't remember, (need to pull up an old catalog) is whether the T-7 incorporated any other significant upgrades like regulation. Did regulation start with the Ultra and then T-8 series, or did the T-7 have it? Even upgrading to T-7 status (12AT7) would be worth doing, although replacing a couple of tubes and replacing a few caps and resistor values should be relatively easy for most technical DIYers I would think.

Ron

whubbard · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 11:51 pm »

Frank,
I have been heavily considering purchasing the insight DAC. If I were to order it from this point forward, are the OPA627AP chips included?
Also, could I just get the from digikey as well? Digikey OPA627AP, as they seem to be half the price from them.

-West

Wayner · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 12:22 am »

Frank does a quality check on all of the chips that are sent out.

Wayner

avahifi · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 12:37 am »

All Insight preamps and DACs, as well as T8 and Ultra DACS, have been shipping with the 627 chips installed as of March 1st.

Of course you can buy the chips directly from whatever source you choose. Ours are simply all tested in circuit and the leads formed for easy insertion.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

whubbard · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 04:25 am »

Thanks Frank.

I'll keep that in mind.

-West

JerryM · « **Reply #49 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 12:51 am »

So I changed out the chips in my T8 DAC this past Friday.

It was very easy to find the chips being replaced, and also very easy to discern the proper orientation. Under the auspices of "measure twice, cut once" I placed a quick call to Matt at AVA and made sure I was on the right track. I was and, just like that, the job was done. Honestly, it was more time consuming to remove and replace the DAC form the rack than it was to do the whole job. It's easy - Walk in the park kind of easy.

Being that I had a rare Friday off, I left the tunes quietly playing for the cat and went to the beach for a couple of hours. I saw a lot of whales migrating by! Pretty cool, it's early in the year for them to be here.

Anyway, I came home and cued up some familiar music. Wow. An immediately noticeable difference! First off, there seems to be more bass. A pretty fair amount more bass. Next, strings sound more like strings. More defined, more fleshed out. Wood instruments, like a viola, resonate far more, like being played right in front of you. Lastly, notes that typically lingered on seem to hang in the room like a fine cigar smoke. Pretty impressive upgrade for 80 bucks!

The more I listened this weekend, the more the bass made me pay attention. There is not "more" bass. The bass is just way more defined. You can clearly hear each single note being played, and the aggressiveness or softness of each note being played. It is more 'real'. So is everything else. It sounds like the musicians are here.

While this isn't a system defining kind of mod, I don't think it's a "last 5%" kind of mod, either. It is certainly right there with adding the Telefunkens to the Ultra 550, at a much lower cost. Significant to say the least, and certainly worth it!

Well, I wish I could write a professional style review that could make readers drool, but I've never been good at prose. This mod is definitely worth the time and limited expense. If you are on the fence, do it. You will not be disappointed!

Lastly, thanks for your continued support, Frank, Matt, and the rest of the AVA Staff!

Have fun,
Jerry

pardales · « **Reply #50 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:15 am »

Mine should be here any day for my Insight DAC. Looking forward to it.

DSK · « **Reply #51 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:28 am »

That's good to hear, JerryM. Mine are on the way to Oz for my Ultra DAC as we speak

rcag_ils · « **Reply #52 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 02:31 am »

I am not sure if anyone has this experience after the chips replacement. After I replaced the chips in my Ultra DAC, in the first hour of listening, I noticed that the bass was a bit more extended, less harshness from the transistors, (not that there were a lot to begin with, just a trace more before the replacement). But there were still some harshness on certain recordings.

I only could afford approx. one hour, maybe two, for listening music everyday. But during the third day, while I was playing the same recordings with the harsh passages before, I noticed that the harshness were gone altogether.

I am not trying to start another topic on parts burn-in, but in this case, I have no other explanation other than just that, "burn-in".

turkey · « **Reply #53 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 11:18 am »

Quote from: JerryM on 17 Mar 2009, 12:51 am

While this isn't a system defining kind of mod, I don't think it's a "last 5%" kind of mod, either. It is certainly right there with adding the Telefunkens to the Ultra 550, at a much lower cost. Significant to say the least, and certainly worth it!

I thought it wasn't a good idea to randomly swap tubes in the AVA hybrid amps? Did you send your amp in to have this done?

martyo · « **Reply #54 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 12:42 pm »

Quote from: martyo on 5 Mar 2009, 09:42 am

Quote
The result is lower noise, removal of the last trace of sold state dryness, a nicer sound stage, and even better transparency and real detail.

I received and installed the chips in my Ultra DAC yesterday. There is certainly more transparency and detail and a more focused sound stage. Every upgrade Frank does seems to extend the frequency extremes, and here too. Probably the increased detail, but the low end is better again too.
Nice Frank

That was my initial post. Had my listening buddy over a few days later but didn't tell him about the chips. Right off the bat he commented on the bass and the soundstage. He then made the point of the soundstage improving left to right, but even more front to back. (less noise) Maybe the very noticeable increase in bass definition is more apparent with the tubed units

Quote from: rcag_ils on 17 Mar 2009, 02:31 am

I am not sure if anyone has this experience after the chips replacement. After I replaced the chips in my Ultra DAC, in the first hour of listening, I noticed that the bass was a bit more extended, less harshness from the transistors, (not that there were a lot to begin with, just a trace more before the replacement). But there were still some harshness on certain recordings.

I only could afford approx. one hour, maybe two, for listening music everyday. But during the third day, while I was playing the same recordings with the harsh passages before, I noticed that the harshness were gone altogether.

I am not trying to start another topic on parts burn-in, but in this case, I have no other explanation other than just that, "burn-in".

Not a new topic on "burn-in", I've stated it before, but all my AVA gear sounded better down the road. It all sounded great right out of the box, but somewhere around 150-200 hours, it really settled in. I know there is no scientific proof, and I wasn't looking for it to happen, but I wasn't the only one that heard it either.

Quote from: turkey on 17 Mar 2009, 11:18 am

Quote from: JerryM on 17 Mar 2009, 12:51 am

While this isn't a system defining kind of mod, I don't think it's a "last 5%" kind of mod, either. It is certainly right there with adding the Telefunkens to the Ultra 550, at a much lower cost. Significant to say the least, and certainly worth it!

I thought it wasn't a good idea to randomly swap tubes in the AVA hybrid amps? Did you send your amp in to have this done?

Jerry, I totally agree.

Hard to say which one did more, but both certainly bring you closer to "real".

Turk, I had Frank bias my Ultra with the Telefunkens.

In closing

Had my rock drummer brother-in-law over Saturday to listen to jazz. Gave him "Kind of Blue" a couple of weeks ago and he really got into it. Of course he focuses on the drumming first. So our music gave him Peter Erskine, Jeff Hamilton, and finally

Jack De Johnette. He was soooo blown away. Finally, his comment on the overall set was that "it doesn't just recreate the music, but the whole room". I'll take that description.

JerryM · « **Reply #55 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 12:51 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 17 Mar 2009, 11:18 am

I thought it wasn't a good idea to randomly swap tubes in the AVA hybrid amps? Did you send your amp in to have this done?

Turkey,

Yes, as Martyo states above, I too sent the amp and tubes over to Frank so he could set the bias on the circuits.

Have fun,
Jerry

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #56 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 12:10 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 5 Mar 2009, 07:19 pm

A very early Fet Valve preamp using four 12AX7 tubes (or without a phono section, two 12AX7 tubes) can indeed have its line stage upgraded to use 12AT7 tubes, which have lots more current drive and nicer overall musicality and dynamics.

I would have to see one to figure out the right price for it, but I would keep it reasonable. If someone wants to send in one to be the "Guinea pig" I would do that one free (except for the cost of the tubes, $35 plus $30 return shipping) if it can be done economically.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

I received the preamp back to today and compared it to my Omega-II preamp that I have been using with an Insight DAC and an Ultra-550 amp. I can't give a good before/after comparison on the FetValve preamp as the old tubes were shot and I had not tried it with the new Insight DAC and Ultra amp. I listened to most of Jesse Cook's "Vertigo" CD on the Omega-II and then swapped in the updated FetValve. It passed the 3 second test as it was immediately much more dynamic sounding than the old Omega-II. The image was more locked in as well. Long ago when I compared the Omega-II and original FetValve preamp, there was not as big a difference - the Omega-II was very clean and listenable, but the FetValve had a more "real" (live?) sound to it. I did not notice a big difference in dynamics at the time, but that was using the old original FetValve 500 amp and FetValve CD player.

As to how it would compare to the latest Insight or Ultra preamps, you would need to ask Frank about that. It is a very worthwhile update in my system till I finally break down and get the Insight or Ultra. If anyone else wants the update, Frank will need to come up with a price (or perhaps publish DIY instructions) but it should be fairly reasonable as it just involves new tubes and a few component changes.

Many thanks Frank!

Tom

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #57 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 04:14 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 2 Mar 2009, 02:50 pm

You may be able to find the Burr Brown OPA627AP chips elsewhere at a lower price, but all of the ones we supply will be in-circuit tested before shipping.

A word of warning: there are fake OPA627 chips out there. I just bought some off of eBay and the package looks different than the real ones (it does not have the normal notch on the one end). I searched the net and found a huge thread on head-fi.org http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fake-opa627s-wild-316937/index7.html telling all about it. The resistance between pins 1 and 5 should be between 40K and 60K and these measure about 6K. I'll be calling Frank to order a pair of real ones for my Insight DAC. I would trust Mouser or Digi-Key but would not trust anyone else except AVA.

Tom

JerryM · « **Reply #58 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 04:23 am »

Quote from: Tom Alverson on 19 Mar 2009, 04:14 am

Quote from: avahifi on 2 Mar 2009, 02:50 pm
You may be able to find the Burr Brown OPA627AP chips elsewhere at a lower price, but all of the ones we supply will be in-circuit tested before shipping.

A word of warning: there are fake OPA627 chips out there. I just bought some off of eBay and the package looks different than the real ones (it does not have the normal notch on the one end). I searched the net and found a huge thread on head-fi.org http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fake-opa627s-wild-316937/index7.html telling all about it. The resistance between pins 1 and 5 should be between 40K and 60K and these measure about 6K. I'll be calling Frank to order a pair of real ones for my Insight DAC. I would trust Mouser or Digi-Key but would not trust anyone else except AVA.

Tom

Tom,

That sucks!

The in-circuit testing by AVA sells me every time...

Have fun,
Jerry

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #59 on:** 20 Mar 2009, 09:45 pm »

Here is a picture of the fake chip compared to a real one.